Respect for the EA81 and performance mods!

[RAD]

In my limited experience in this forum, and not-so limited time invested in all sources of such info, I have found this subject to receive a disturbing lack of respect, imagination, etc.

My Brat has had some terrible things happen to it, and it needed a performance boost before these things happened to it.
Everybody says to just swap out the engine with some EJ variant - Really?!?
Like these things are just legos and you can do it in a weekend for less than thousands?

I have read all about what is entailed in this, have spoken with EXTREMELY qualified and experienced people about it, and studied it in every way I can find, and this notion in itself is not practical in any way whatsoever.
I could have had it done - for a MINIMUM of $2500.00, and that was a low-ball generous offer.
The alternative is do do it myself, which also would require a lot of money, EXTREME modification of the vehicle, and again, a HELL of a lot of time invested.

If you do not respect the EA81, then you do not respect the very origins of Subaru, its genius in design, and the concept of Subaru itself! How many engines since the 70's have been dependable engines that do not even need a timing chain?
The EA81 is PROOF that a timing chain is not necessary in a good running, extremely dependable, reliable engine that can even take abuse. Personally, I think the EA81 design should not have been abandoned.
hat do we have today? Engine compartments filled to capacity with hoses, wires, components, etc. etc. etc. - mostly for just gas mileage. Given the choice between that and a simple engine with a few fairly simple long-proven modifications, and some cleaver adaptations is one hell of a better choice!

I personally know the unbelievable extremes of what these engines (and vehicles) can take.
I spent somewhere around 8 years of my life out in the middles of nowhere, rarely coming into a town for supplies, and I used a van and a Subaru do do my work, because I could bet my LIFE on an old Subaru to get me where I needed to go and back.
I have also won street races - not against race cars or performance-modded cars, but respectable sports cars, and my old Subaru Brats, with their EA81 earned respect from people who came to me afterward amazed at how well it did for an old, odd, low-HP vehicle.

In fact, the ONLY situations where performance has been an issue is going up a steep grade at an acceptable speed. which means 5mph above the speed limit, lol.
When is comes to gridlock, the Brat with an EA81 engine is IDEAL!
When it comes to relatively high-speed maneuvering of winding roads, paved or not, the EA81 is fully capable.
The EA81 is perfectly adequate for most situations of driving, and a truly and fully respectable engine.

I, for one, will choose to make what I have better, without gutting it and spending nearly $3,000.00 doing it!

I love the EA81, and it CAN be improved for FAR less that replacing the whole damned powerplant, dash, modifying half the engine compartment, etc. etc. etc. To me, the often proposed alternative of 'just swapping in' and EJ variant is the real joke, and the less intelligent thing to do by all practical measures.

If Tweety can do it with a trike, with all the space constraint and other issue he had to deal with, then there is no damned reason why it cannot be done in the original vehicle somehow!

 

[AdventureSubaru]

The EA81 is a fine motor. Most of us love it. However, it cannot be made into a powerhouse. Even the turbo variant was still very low power.

 

EJ swaps ARE the economical and efficient upgrade.

 

Most of us do our own work to these cars. Absolutely! I can install an EJ into an EA car for $500 in a weekend. I am not unusual among this crowd. If you buy your parts item by item off ebay maybe you'd be into the thousands.

 

EA81 in a brat is a fine setup. Goes on practically forever with very low maintenance. But some folks want to turn 30 inch tires on them or go fast. Either one requires an EJ swap or some form of modification that will quickly destroy the EA81.

 

Since you are coming from admittedly very little experience with these cars, I invite you to learn from the collective experience on here rather than tell us things that simply are not so. There's a big reason that all gurus say "EJ swap" when talking about power increases on the EA81. It's a cheap way to go from about 80hp to 120 for a couple hundred dollars.

 

Of course you'll pay more if you're paying someone else to do it. If you can't wrench on it yourself, you probably shouldn't be looking at retrofitting motors from platform to platform. It's just a waste of $$$ at that point.

Edited March 7, 2017 by AdventureSubaru

[Naked Buell]

I must comment RAD; I love the ea81 and is why I fell in love with them and proved itself to me over and over again. But as you stand by the ea81, u should also be standing next to the ej. The Ej is based from the ea. Why do you think it is easily getting 300,000.

I had one in my Brat. But the amount of money you can put into the ea to get more out of her, you could easily upgrade to the Ej and have more in hp, fuel injection, torque. 

 

If you did just a regular ej engine upgrade with the adapter plate it wouldn't be difficult. I took my Brat ea81 rebuilt her and put her into my Rx. But when you want to pass someone, you really have to get on her and being screaming way to high just to pass safely and I didn't like having the feeling of not knowing if I have enough room to make the pass. I needed more Hp and torque and the ej was the way to go. Like others have said, you won't be able to get that much out of her. You have to come to the point that even though the ea81 is great, the ej is better, hands down. It's just technology. Subaru took a great motor and improved it to the Ej.

But the ea81 is a swiss watch. 

[RAD]

The EA81 is a fine motor. Most of us love it. However, it cannot be made into a powerhouse. Even the turbo variant was still very low power.

 

EJ swaps ARE the economical and efficient upgrade.

 

Most of us do our own work to these cars. Absolutely! I can install an EJ into an EA car for $400 in a weekend. I am not unusual among this crowd. If you buy your parts item by item off ebay maybe you'd be into the thousands.

 

EA81 in a brat is a fine setup. Goes on practically forever with very low maintenance. But some folks want to turn 30 inch tires on them or go fast. Either one requires an EJ swap or some form of modification that will quickly destroy the EA81.

 

Since you are coming from admittedly very little experience with these cars, I invite you to learn from the collective experience on here rather than tell us things that simply are not so. There's a big reason that all gurus say "EJ swap" when talking about power increases on the EA81. It's a cheap way to go from about 80hp to 120 for a couple hundred dollars.

 

Of course you'll pay more if you're paying someone else to do it. If you can't wrench on it yourself, you probably shouldn't be looking at retrofitting motors from platform to platform. It's just a waste of $$$ at that point.

 

I must comment RAD; I love the ea81 and is why I fell in love with them and proved itself to me over and over again. But as you stand by the ea81, u should also be standing next to the ej. The Ej is based from the ea. Why do you think it is easily getting 300,000.

I had one in my Brat. But the amount of money you can put into the ea to get more out of her, you could easily upgrade to the Ej and have more in hp, fuel injection, torque. 

 

If you did just a regular ej engine upgrade with the adapter plate it wouldn't be difficult. I took my Brat ea81 rebuilt her and put her into my Rx. But when you want to pass someone, you really have to get on her and being screaming way to high just to pass safely and I didn't like having the feeling of not knowing if I have enough room to make the pass. I needed more Hp and torque and the ej was the way to go. Like others have said, you won't be able to get that much out of her. You have to come to the point that even though the ea81 is great, the ej is better, hands down. It's just technology. Subaru took a great motor and improved it to the Ej.

But the ea81 is a swiss watch. 

 

I must respectfully, unapologetically, and most strongly disagree with both of you! Lol...

First, my experience does not have to matter, I am drawing on the experience, trial-and-errors, and physical doings of people with all the experience one could ask. I am not in any way ignorant of this topic, and have been researching this for years now, before I go and do something I would regret in several ways by unnecessarily butchering what is a fantastic vehicle and engine!

Why, specifically?

As I have stated, if not here, then in other posts, that short of heading up a long grade, the EA81 is far MORE than adequate for most driving situatuions short of all-out racing. I do not have to be the fastest car in town, and in fact, even with my un-modified, beat-up old Brat, I have won races against "Normal" cars many, many times!

 

Ad ANYTHING in the way of improved performance and a difference can be readily felt! Even with nothing more than adding a Weber carb, as so many people will swear by. Add more or better than that, and the real difference is made.

What so many people unconsciously forget or do not take into account, and that is how light the Brat is. Even lighter than its equivalent in the Wagon or car. That is the very reason it was designed and built as it was, with so little horsepower, because it doesn't need it!

The Subaru Brat is basically the best Go-cart ever made!

 

I honestly cannot reconcile with this seeming obsession with improving performance the hardest, most expensive, most time-consuming way there is, ad this obsession with swapping EJ engines! If the EJ engine would just bolt in, it would not even be a major consideration.

- But that IS the problem with an EJ swap. Even with experience, not everyone, mechanically inclined, can do this in a weekend.

Also, swapping for only $400.00 ??? - Really? and that includes EVERYTHING?!? - So you bought an engine or car with the engine for $200.00 or less I assume? A weekend is two days, how many hours did it take for that? More than 8 hours I bet!

 

Also, that is assuming TURBO. I do not believe in turbo, and have spoken to people with all the experience you could possibly ask, and have determined, especially if one wants to talk about high-performance, that Super-chargers are the better way.

 

For anyone who wants to do the unnecessary extreme, has a whole garage of everything they need and are an A+ mechanic, or who want to just throw a couple thousand at it, hey, its a free country man! But how much would you charge me to do the same with my Brat, eh?

 

My Brat doesn't NEED an EJ engine.

 

So I am throwing the gauntlet down here - if anyone within two States of me (SoCal) can take my Brat and put an EJ engine in it, done, finished, ready to take off into the sunset for less than $1,000.00, post your resume, and I will scrap my plans, start preparing, and make plans to drive a few hundred miles to make it happen!

Short of that, the lack of such an offer, and a serious one by someone I can trust to do it without screwing it up, without serious delays, without surprise additional parts and money required after the agreement, etc. will prove my point completely!

 

Anybody?!?

Anybody?!?

 

 

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Your comments are based on your wallet.

 

The EJ is the only viable Subaru based power plant going forward (and frankly even the early EJ's are getting tough to find in reasonable condition). The parts to rebuild them are already disappearing. Try to find 83+ intake/exhaust valves for example. It's a dying platform. This situation is getting worse by the day and it will never get better. For those that want to keep a nice EA body on the road as a daily the EJ is one way to do it.

 

Further - an engine rebuild on an EA81 (for example) is nearly as expensive as an EJ. Labor is expensive.

 

As far as the engine being some amazing feat of engineering - they arent bad. But power to weight and longevity are easily surpassed by the EJ22.

 

The engines can be had for pretty cheap. $250 - $500 private party used. Hell you can buy a whole car for that. If you look hard enough you could get or make a carb manifold and run a Weber on it. Ford escort distributor,etc. There is not much modification actually required to install the engine. You could get the job done for less than $1k if you shop right. I've done or been closely associated with around a dozen or more swaps.

 

Your problem is the paralysis of learned helplessness. Sitting around justifing why not to do it and ranting on here to us about it just proves what you already know deep inside. You want it and think you can't have it. Many kids have done it and had a lot of fun doing it and playing with the results.

 

Life is too short to stay stock.

 

Turbo? Who said anything about swapping that? They (EJ22T) are uncommon and also troublesome to find parts for. Wouldn't recommend that. Turbos are lot more efficient than superchargers but that's a completely different discussion. Come up here and I'll give ya a ride in one of our STI or EVO builds. LoL. We will be dyno tuning an EVO build next Wednesday that will likely hit 400 AWHP. Just the Cosworth pistons and rods were $2400. Dream big my friend - I wouldn't be doing what I am now without taking on some "learning experiences" in the process.

 

GD

Edited February 26, 2017 by GeneralDisorder

[Naked Buell]

I am not sure where he got that number for the swap. My donor car was $500 and then I rebuilt the 2.2T motor. It is a lot of work, don't get wrong, actually more than I had anticipated. I still have my ea81 rebuilt in the Rx with only 6,000 on her. As a matter of fact, my ej swap isn't done still and I have been working on her for years now. 

I actually thought of putting the ea81 heads on that they make for the airplane heads. More flow and polished but that isn't cheap. I would love to see more mods for the ea81 you may have or have done that I could use on the Rx.

I think most go the ej cause they are already lifted it and are pushing way bigger tires than stock and it eats up that 85hp rather quickly along with the mpg. 

I am not trying to discourage in fact I like what you are doing. It would be awesome to do performance mods that didn't cost huge amounts of money and you didn't have to change a bunch of stuff. So keep what you find coming. I am interested and of course we love pics. 

 

Nice points GD

Edited February 26, 2017 by Naked Buell

[AdventureSubaru]

Of course. I can get a parts legacy or impreza for a couple hundred and an adapter for 100. My average time for a complete remove and reinstall of an ej motor is about 5 to 6 hours. Keep in mind ive actually done motor swaps in these cars literally dozens of times.

 

We're supposed to be impressed that you've "researched" this topic? Who do you think you're talking to? We're the ones who have done the motor swaps, experimented and learned the limits of these motors andbthe benefits of mods and swaps. I've owned a dozen ea series cars and easily two dozen ejs and done a variety of swaps for them, both newer and older.

 

For you, someone who admittedly would have to pay someone else to do the work to your car because you cant do it yourself, to come here as a newbie and tell those of us with actual first hand knowledge we dont know what were talking about is a special brand of arrogance.

Edited February 27, 2017 by AdventureSubaru

[Naked Buell]

I am dying laughing right now. So funny, I'm reading the posts out loud to my wife and we are both laughing. Just let someone talk for about 5 minutes and you will know if they know what they are talking about,,,,or if they "don't" know what they are talking about. 

[iluvdrt]

RAD I am in Oceanside and have rebuilt EA81 with Weber 32/36 that's been jetted and tuned with a MSD 6AL ignition system, Holley FPR, Redline fuel pump and Magnaflow header. Those parts alone were $1000 new and maybe got me close to $100 hp.

My EJ22 swap is 100x better than that motor, but did take me a bit of time to figure out. To think an EA81 is a capable, easy to find parts for as an EJ, or even remotely comparable is crazy lol. Look, its a cool little motor, but when it actually goes you're going to spend more money rebuilding the 80hp EA81 than you would just doing a swap.

Ill tell you what, $650 and you can have my EA81 with all of the goods already tuned for SoCal and be on your way to building a "beast" lol.

[RAD]

Ok, let's make it official:

I MAY, at some future time, with ANOTHER brat, maybe, think of putting an EJ in it - Maybe, but likely not.

I am sick and tired of everyone trying to shove the EJ concept down my throat! I DO NOT WANT TO SEE/HEAR IT AGAIN!!!

I have had NO problem with performance of my EA81 in 80% of my driving! It is JUST FINE!
What I want to do is boost the performance of the engine so that it can take a mountain grade! That is maybe only 10%, and occasional, of my driving!

Anyone who says that is not possible simply does not know what the hell they are talking about! I am NOT trying to build an all-out race car!

Everybody and his brother want tpo "helop" me by telling me to do what I
#1 DO NOT WANT TO DO
#2 DO NOT NEED TO DO

#3 DO NOT WANT TO SPEND LOTS OF TIME AND MONEY ON UNNECCESSARILY

Why is it so damned impossible for anyone to actually HELP by actually addressing the actual issue/question ?!?

This WILL be done, in some fashion, likely without anyone's input, as nobosy wants to adress the actual issue/question.

THAT is what this forum is supposed to be about, not helping me do what SOMEONE ELSE WANTS TO DO!|

CRIMONY!

[GeneralDisorder]

Do what you like. But you'll be "doing" it while the rest of us are out having fun and actually driving our cars. 

 

That's the problem with doing your own thing - you have to figure it out yourself and 99 times out of 100 you end up doing what everyone else has already done and just being late to the party. 

 

If there was room in the engine bay I would be telling you to LS it, not EJ it. Because the LS is SOOOOO freakin cheap, and SOOOOO freakin awesome.

 

We just want you to have fun actually driving the car. You seem to want this as well because you say you don't want to spend lots of "TIME AND MONEY" on it. 

 

But you have already spent inordinate amounts of time telling us how stupid we all are. 

 

My prediction: my response to your rant gets more likes than your rant. 

 

Flame on.

 

GD

[Naked Buell]

Wowwwww.

[DaveT]

I've been reading these threads.  Not sure how to be helpful.  I've seen may threads about mods for EA series engines, over many years. 

 

How much HP are you looking for?

 

Anything more than just small numbers [like single digit HP]  of increased output ends up getting into expensive / complicated / time intensive.  Usually 2 or 3 out of the 3. 

[83subaruGLchick]

I mean no one is forcing you to do it, it's just a suggestion and a great one, forums are meant to help you and increase your knowledge.  No ones forcing you.  I love my EA81 too but I know for the direction I'm going with my GL its going to need the EJ, but if you're simply staying stock height etc and just don't need any more HP or power there isn't really a major need for you to do it.

 

Happy Subaruing!

Edited March 4, 2017 by 83subaruGLchick

[AdventureSubaru]

Yes RAD. I'm seeing either a double standard or a big oversight here. You claim to want significant performance increase and then say that the ea81 power is just fine. Make up your mind here.

 

If the ea81 is fine just fix it and drive it. Or find a good used one out there and drop it in. You can keep them running cheap off used parts. It will stay the same low powered but dependable driver they always were.

 

If you want blazing speed out of the car you are wasting your time with thatvmotor and youve seen too many movies. You're just not going to find what you seem to be looking for. A high powered inexpensive ea81 simply does not exist. Scratch that. A high powered ea81 does not exist.

 

If you want power you need something in your engine bay capable of generating power.

 

If you want original and true to the brat. Get the ea81 running right and keep it going. A weber can give a little more pep if tuned well. But still not a fast car, which is okay.

 

I go that way. Ive replaced several dohc 2.5s for a 2.2 sacrificing horsepower for simplicity and reliability.

 

As you seem loyal to the ea81, you need to get comfortable with what the ea81 is. Not what you want it to be or imagined it to be but what it is. A simple, reliable and low powered little motor that you may spend more time finding parts for than the time it takes to actually do the repairs to.

 

Again, this is okay because its real. But if you think you're going to make it much faster on a stock motor without frying it quickly, you're just another dreamer that will come back down to earth when the reality we've told you about shows up.

[NoahDL88]

I'm so confused I had to log in. I hate logging in.

 

It sounds to me that you are happy with the EA-81, and don't want/need the power of an EJ?

 

But wait, you want performance?

 

I'll address the issue with EA-81 and performance. The intake is long and narrow, which means it's set up for low end torque. Being on the suction side, the 1.25 inch diameter limits your flow, a lot. I flowed the heads and intake on a bench air flow tester and you're not going to get more than 125 horsepower from that intake, and that comes with bumping duration and lift on the cam substantially. That is assuming that you have fuel injection, because even with the Weber carb you're not going to get a consistent mixture from the bottom to your new required red-line to get the HP gains you seek. Now that you've added fuel injection and a new intake with runners for both cylinders, you'll need an exhaust tuned to the additional airflow, it might be best at this point to get dual runner exhaust as well.

 

The most reliable way to go about this is to get in contact with someone in the Experimental Aircraft Association, and have them put you into contact with an engine builder, but an FAA spec engine will be about 15-20K, I'm assuming that if you do not require FAA licensing you can get away with about a 10K price tag as they won't have to blueprint everything.

 

Or, you can go with the engine that has all these things on it, get a 200 dollar adapter plate, meet up with some fun Subie nuts and work out a wiring harness over some beers, soda or milk and have your brat running with the same reliability, twice the performance and better fuel economy to boot for less than 1500 bucks.

 

That's why everyone recommends the EJ swap, if you're happy with ~68 horsepower stick with the EA-81, it's a great engine, but it was never designed to be, will never be, and can't ever be a high performance engine.

[Naked Buell]

It is like he thinks that none of us "First" tried to beef up our Ea81's. We have and that is why all of us are saying you need a better Subaru engine that gives you want we all want out of the Ea cars. 

IMHO, I love the ea cars and they are perfect with the ej swap. Even the 1.8 but if you are doing it, you should do the 2.2. You wouldn't regret it. 

Listen to everyone that has spent their time and money into finding out what we are all trying to say. For someone who doesn't have the money, looking for a wrecked legacy with the 2.2 is the way to go.

 

But then again, we are just giving suggestions. You can do what you like, and from the sounds of it, you will.

[l75eya]

The highlight of this whole post was seeing GD back on here.

 

My .02

Ea81 makes what, 80hp on a good day?

Ea82 makes say 85? 90 fuel injected?

OK, so let's forget about the ea81 and focus on the most powerful non turbo ea variant. A mpfi ea82 might be making close to 100 horses

 

The most power you're going to add without getting expensive is about 10 additional horsepower from doing simple intake and exhaust mods. OK you're at 110. There really is no more room for improvement without doing costly interior engine modifications now, and even then you're limited by what the stock ECU can handle.

 

Those ea motors are very ingeniously built but they were designed to be economical and small, which they all are. They are not designed to create very much power, even in the most advanced form.

 

Fast forward to 1995 and you have a motor that was influenced by the design of the ea engines but with more available technology, upstream and downstream oxygen sensors, camshaft phasers, computer designed pistons, etc, etc. You have a motor being run by an actual computer now, instead of a calculator. It's 1.8 (same displacement) version outputs 110hp stock. The 2.2 is in the 125hp ballpark. Stock. Unmodified.

Couple that with a huge aftermarket source for performance upgrades.

 

There is no good reason to say the EA motors can be just as good as the EJ motors because that simply is not true. If you like your ea motor, that's great! I love mine! It's runs like a sewing machine, starts every time, and gets decent gas mileage! It scoots my car to 60 in about 9 seconds and that's not soo bad either.

 

What it is not, however, is anywhere near as efficient and powerful as a more modern, technologically advanced engine like the EJ series.

[l75eya]

If you're trying to maintain 75 mph on long steep hills, you need to look at throwing money at your transmission gearing. Or just treat it like an old ea motor and drop it in 3rd gear with your foot to the floor. I climb a steep mountain in my car and in the way to it in taching out 3rd and floored in 4th the whole way up. I'm doing about 70 when I crest it and typically peak at about 78 on the way.

[AdventureSubaru]

Is it really much cheaper or easier to go SPFI EA over EJ? No adapter needed but both are going to send you down the rabbit hole for wiring, ECU, Fuel pump etc.

 

Given the volume of available parts cars of EJ over EA - I'd suspect I could do an EJ swap cheaper than a SPFI switcheroo. I've gotten a few parts/fixer uppers for under 300. Shoot, my daily driver lifted legacy was purchased for $200. Could have dropped that stuff into an EA car on the cheap if I wanted.

[NoahDL88]

Ram Engines

 

Here is your power with an EA-81!

[GeneralDisorder]

I'm so confused I had to log in. I hate logging in.

I know, right?

 

GD

Edited March 5, 2017 by GeneralDisorder

[AdventureSubaru]

Ram Engines

 

Here is your power with an EA-81!

 

What a deal! Only $13,000+/- more expensive than an EJ swap to get 20 fewer HP than an EJ22! :banana:

Edited March 5, 2017 by AdventureSubaru

[l75eya]

Lmao! ALL that to hit 120hp. Coil on plug conversion, crank sensor, multi point fuel injection, ECU and fuel controllers, wow.

[DaveT]

I remembered there was someone that did real increases on these old engines.  Also remembered it was expensive.  Some of the expense on this particular ones is probably the airplane / flight specific stuff.....  Even still, that custom stuff isn't going to be cheap.

 

And an EJ is still going to be more powerful, and since it's not being pushed beyond it's original design, more reliable.