Do you guys go through brakes like water?

[TheCaffeinatedOne]

My wife and I have had six Subarus; I drive No 4 and she drives No 6. Old Number 5 was a 2010 Impreza that gave its life to let my wife  walk away from a head on crash. So I have some brand loyalty.

 

But what is it with Legacy brakes??

 

I used to have a 96 Outback and now drive a 2007 Outback. Both cars ate brakes for breakfast.

 

I might get 15K from a set of rotors / pads and have had two calipers replaced in 70K miles on the 2007. I don't think I'm using way cheap parts, although they have not always been Subaru brand. I do live in the salt belt - Vermont dirt roads.

[AdventureSubaru]

Glad to hear the Impreza did its job. Pound for pound these are the safest vehicles on the road.

 

We have had similar experiences. I order some of the closeout parts on Rock Auto. Cheaper ceramic pads lasted about 15-20,000 miles. It was hilly country, plenty of dirt roads and we tow sometimes with ours.

 

I dont mind changing pads a little more regularly but we're going to pay a bit more for a higher quality pad on the next replacement as rotors will be due as well.

 

I think some of the materials wear out quicker based on the heat/friction they produce but i've not researched it much.

[jmoss5723]

I do LOTS of pad changes on automatic transmission subarus. I engine brake quite a bit in my manuals so brakes last forever, but the autos seem to eat pads up. I've tried quite a few brands of pads and everything from semi-metallic to full ceramic. I've decided that Centric brand semi-metallics from Rock Auto perfectly balance longevity and price and they're not terribly dirty.

[GreaseMonkey03]

I've noticed that the cause for this in a lot of cases is the fact that the pads get jammed up tight against the rotors and drag without the brakes being pressed. Easy to diagnose if there is a warped rotor because it will vibrate without applying the brakes.

Anyway, some of the aftermarket brake pad manufacturers have small "defects" that cause it and in some cases it is rust build up on the caliper brackets underneath the brake hardware. There's four major things that almost HAVE to be done when replacing Subaru pads.

1. Make sure both slide pins are completely free and lubricated. The dual piston calipers chew through pads if one of the slides is even slightly hung up. Clean and lubricate everything that moves.

2. Make sure the caliper bracket is completely clear of swelling due to rust. If you can't completely remove it, you may need to modify the pads by....

3. Make sure there are no casting marks on the pads where they make contact with the hardware. You might notice the pads sometimes just won't slide in, a lot of times it is either casting marks OR some pads have a tiny lip just inside of the ears that rubs too much. Grind if needed or step up the pad quality. If you grind, you will now have bare metal which can rust/bind/make noise.

4. Always replace the brake hardware. If you're getting the cheap pads that don't come with new hardware, either buy the hardware separate or step up the pad quality.

 

If the pads don't flop in with little effort or you have to force them in, that's no bueno.

[jmoss5723]

Add "goob everything up with high temp brake grease" to that list, and you'll have a pretty comprehensive list.

[Numbchux]

No. Never had an issue with fast brake wear. Our '03 Outback we had for almost 50k miles, and I did have all the pads wear out while we owned it, but I had the receipt from when the previous owner had them done at 80k (we had it 110k to 155k). We've had our '04 Outback for about 15k miles, and I just put rear pads on it.

 

 

BUT, I have had issues with brake hardware sticking. I'm extremely attentive to slight noises or vibrations, and have pulled off the freeway (engine braking as much as possible) just to feel if any of the brakes are dragging and getting hot. If you do this, be very careful, if done right and everything is working properly, the brake components usually are only warm to the touch, but if one is sticking it will be VERY hot. I have cleaned, and lubed slide pins with new boots a few times, and replaced pad clips mid-life. I seem to get more life out of things with permatex ceramic caliper lube.

 

I always replace pad hardware, which doesn't always come with new pads. Pin boots and pad clips. I always wire brush and/or file the areas on the caliper bracket nearest the pad, so the pads can move freely. I hit the pins with the wire wheel to clean off any rust. The lower slide pin has a little rubber isolater on the end, if this gets dry, it will seize hard. I have left that isolater off without ill effects, but as long as they stay lubed, they seem to last.

 

I also flush a pint or so of brake fluid through the system, to help prevent contamination and rust in the calipers.

 

 

OE pads are awesome, but expensive. MSRP is usually $85.95. Aftermarkets tend to run $15-$40. AutoZone is awesome, as all but the cheapest pads have a lifetime warranty, which is good for wear as well. I usually run their Duralast gold pads in the front and regular Duralast on the rears.

[1 Lucky Texan]

if incompatible lube was ever used in the past, the rubber bushings on the pins can swell and cause problems. Some folks just remove them. They only block a little a dust and maybe reduce a little rattle occasionally.

 

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/66-problems-maintenance/35423-caliper-slide-pin-missing-rubber-sleeve.html

[GreaseMonkey03]

For sure. I inspect them and leave them if they are in good shape. Once they start to wear or become too flexible they are nothing but trouble.

And they add fuel to the fire if you have to heat the slide pins to remove them.

Here's a tip. Keep a vise grip clamped on the end of a slide to add weight in case the expanding gas shoots the pin out like a bullet. Don't ask me how I know. But for the same reason I learned to punch a hole in ball joints before I heat those up. Lmao

[jmoss5723]

I hate those little rubber sleeves! Any time I've encountered a stuck slide pin it has been on the pin with the sleeve. I always remove them now and have no problems.

[vasy]

I have a 96 Outback with auto purchased new in 96. I replaced the factory rear pads around 40,000 miles. Replaced the rear pads again twice, about 40,000 miles apart using Adv Auto parts. Replaced the original factory front pads at 120,000 miles (not a typo) with OEM pads. We don't drive hard so that's easy on brakes. Had to replace 3 calipers after 120,000 miles due to dragging pistons. Used Adv Auto for the 2 rears and reman Subaru for the left front. Still have the factory caliper on the right front. Now at 151,000 miles no issues at all with brakes or anything else (did the HG around 130,000 miles).

[TheCaffeinatedOne]

Fantastic replies, you guys! This is exactly the kind of guidance I need. I've done a lot of brake work on my Subies and I can tell it's not been thorough enough - and that the solution isn't rocket science, but rather attention to detail.

 

Appreciate it!

[GreaseMonkey03]

Thought it was ironic enough to put this here. Just happened today on an 05 Impreza. Lower slide literally exploded out after applying heat. Was dry as a bone with zero evidence of lube. If the vise grip wasn't attached to it, it could have caused some damage. The black on the vise grip was a result of the Big Bang.

The rubber dust boot was found later in the far opposite corner of the shop. Go figure. Lmao

[CNY_Dave]

Slide pin won't pull out?

 

[idosubaru]

Replacing two calipers on a Subaru this new is weird. Why was that done? Subaru calipers last 200,000 miles all day long, replacing two is unlikely to be bad luck.

 

1. Silglyde brake grease.

2. New caliper retaining clips

 

If you're in the rust belt it's not a bad idea to check pins/grease wverybtire rotation or when swapping winter/summer tires.

 

I've seen cheap pads perform fine but last 15,000 miles on other vehicles so presumably it's likely on Subarus but I generally avoid them.

[uniberp]

Do you live in the mountains? I used to belong to a "brake-life bragging club" in BC.

[TheCaffeinatedOne]

I do live in the mountains, but not like BC. Over here we have OLD mountains. That means they look more like hills if you're used to the Canadian Rockies.

 

I have a love / hate relationship with brakes. First, its something that I can actually do without having the garage cleaned out enough to get a car in there. So that's good. As it turns out, I'm not all that good at it. So that's not so good, although I can get better at it.

 

But I seem to have adventures. The last time I replaced the rear rotors and pads (and fought with the possessed parking brake system) I had everything laid out on a tarp in my driveway nice and neat, had the car up on jackstands, tires/wheels off, calipers unattached and held up with a twisted piece of heavy galvanized rod that I had twisted around into a hook. Everything went like clock work, and for once I HAD all the needed tools - not "all but one."

 

It was a nice summer day and I was just finishing up. Tires were back on, lugs torqued, and I stood up and somehow lost my balance.

So here's Mr Marital Arts taking a big step back to save his balance, just like in the movies. Only thing was, I was wearing clogs and stepped out of them with my right foot. Back it went with all my weight and landed right on that piece of rod that I had just discarded to the side - the one that held up the caliper. The rod went right up into the bottom of my foot about 3/4" and stuck there. 

 

So, undaunted by a flesh wound, I pulled it out. Grabbed a hoe from the garage and sort of crutched my way up to the house, being determined not to get sick on the way. My daughter drove me to the ER. I gotta tell you - getting a puncture wound irrigated with a syringe in the underside of your foot is no joke, even for a short thing like this was. I didn't so much yell as much as I lifted the paramedic off the ground with my leg. 

 

So like I said - kind of a love / hate thing with the Subaru brakes. Not sure I should be blaming the car though.

[GreaseMonkey03]

That's what you get for wearing clogs. Lmao

[CNY_Dave]

We bought our '05 forester used with about 25k on the clock- right front caliper was partially seized.

[TheCaffeinatedOne]

That's what you get for wearing clogs. Lmao

Hey - I'm in Vermont. The store was out of Birkenstocks.

[keith3267]

Do you brake with your left foot?

[TheCaffeinatedOne]

Do you brake with your left foot?

I used to, but I kept on wearing out the sole of my boot.

 

Then I fixed the floorboard.

 

Actually, my driving habits have never been particularly hard on brakes, and over the years I've driven a lot of different cars. I think the major issue has been my inclinations to be a weekend warrior sortakinda mechanic-type (hold my beer - watch this).

 

I expect the problem with these is as earlier described in the thread, that the pads did not fully retract and started dragging slightly - they'd wear fast and would tend to heat up the rotor. I'd frequently find myself with pulsating brakes at what felt like inappropriately low mileages. The last time I had an issue, the front passenger brakes suddenly made an awful racket about five hundred feet from a local garage - so in I went. The front brake pads had fractured and were in pieces.

 

Some time ago I painted the calipers - that was an error in judgment. Not because paint is "bad", but because poorly applied paint can be trouble. I was sloppy and it just made things worse. I'll be painting them again, but not before pulling them off the car, disassembling them, cleaning and masking appropriately. Lots more work than I'd put into the project before, but now I understand the need for it - so be it!

Edited March 10, 2017 by TheCaffeinatedOne

[keith3267]

If the outer pad is the only one wearing down quickly, then the caliper pins (bushings) are sticking.  It is quite common as brakes age.  Just cleaning and greasing the pins is not enough, you need to replace the rubber seals as well.

[wirelessenabled]

I have not seen this.  With my 2000 OBW  with a manual transmission, purchased new, I finally replaced the rear pads at 166,000 miles not because they were worn out but just because.  I do not engine brake but rather use the brakes, because pads are way easier to replace than the clutch.  I am in the opinion that Subaru OEM brakes are great and long lasting. 

 

I have had a caliper pin seize which I could smell and took the caliper apart for cleaning and grease which fixed the problem.

[idosubaru]

It's really simple: 
 

1. remove or replace the slide pin bushings

2. clean and regrease slides and bores with Sil Glyde or equivalent, do not use regular brake grease (like the common green Permatex can -i t's not very good, doesn't last long)

3. replace pad clips - they get distorted, dust build up, and rust which all can hang the pad. 

 

Do that and pads last fine and rotors last the life of the vehicle normally. 

[jdulin]

I have an 08 Impreza 2.5i. I bought it used and they didn't address the brake line recall at the time. I have had that addressed. My girl has about 135K on it now and put about 20K+ miles a year on her. I have to replace the front pads every year like clockwork. The backs haven't been touched since I bought her. This is the first car I have had to replace the brakes so frequently.