StephenJ101 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) Hello Hope you can help answer a question I have about the valve lash adjustment in a EA82 motor I have in a 1992 Subaru Loyale. First off, I apologize as I don't have any experience with this subject and need some basic understanding to identify if my valve lash adjusters are bad??? Of the 8 valve adjusters, I can manual depress 5 of them about a 1/16 of an inch or a lil more but the other three are solid as ever, which I can not depress at all. Which are the bad ones? As I have read int the manual, I tried to fill the 5 and loosen the other three by placing them in oil and depressing them which will make them firmer??? or loosen them so they can be depressed. No change in any of them was noticed by performing this procedure. Is this an effective method? Is replacement of either of these the best solution or can I rebuild them? Thank You SJ Edited March 5, 2017 by StephenJ101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naked Buell Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Sounds like you need to adjust all of them. There is a sequence of the firing order. Start at one; and bring to TDC and then check adjustment. Your manual will tell you the clearance. Then go to the next in order. 3, Then 2, and 4. Adjustment the valves so that you can barely get the feeler gauge into the stop. Then when done. Do it again, the sequence and double check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenJ101 Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 Sounds like you need to adjust all of them. There is a sequence of the firing order. Start at one; and bring to TDC and then check adjustment. Your manual will tell you the clearance. Then go to the next in order. 3, Then 2, and 4. Adjustment the valves so that you can barely get the feeler gauge into the stop. Then when done. Do it again, the sequence and double check. these are hydraulic lash adjusters in the EA82 engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naked Buell Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 How many miles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 What adjustment? They are hydraulic, self adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naked Buell Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Sorry thinking old school. I haven't had any of the loyales past my 88 Rx and have changed the engine to an ea81 due to all the problems the ea82 had. What keeps them from building pressure? I know the oil passages can be drilled to stop the ticking but all I can think of is dirty oil or bad lifters but that is too many to go bad all at once isn't it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenJ101 Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 What adjustment? They are hydraulic, self adjust. Correct. as written in the manual and checked on the bench with the adjusters out of the engine, of the 8, there are 5 that can be depressed and 3 that are solid and can not be depressed. are these three shot and need to be replaced?? or can the other 5 be firmed up by filling with oil as explained in the manual? I apologize but I don't have a clue?? SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 I have not seen anything about modifying them. I do remember a thread or 2 about disassembling them and cleaning them, if they are not scored or otherwise damaged.Yeah, if one or maybe 2 went bad somehow.... More than that, probably less than ideal engine maintenance contributed?I've been running Amsoil synthetic since 1988 - don't know for sure if that has anything to do with it, but have yet to have trouble with lifters. Bad oil pump seal will cause the infamous tick, fix that, it goes away after a while. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenJ101 Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 I got this following quote from another post and wonder about a procedure to clean, restore, rebuild, bleed, pump these lash adjusters in the EA82 engine??? " bled and pumped up all 8 HLAs, used compressed air and brake cleaner to get every piece clean as a whistle, oiled everything up, put it back in the engine, and the second the engine fired, it purred like a kitten. drove it 200 miles home from my dads place, still sounds great. " Thank you I appreciste any insight and help SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenJ101 Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 I have not seen anything about modifying them. I do remember a thread or 2 about disassembling them and cleaning them, if they are not scored or otherwise damaged. Yeah, if one or maybe 2 went bad somehow.... More than that, probably less than ideal engine maintenance contributed? I've been running Amsoil synthetic since 1988 - don't know for sure if that has anything to do with it, but have yet to have trouble with lifters. Bad oil pump seal will cause the infamous tick, fix that, it goes away after a while. yah, i have the engine tore down resealing it and now am into reassembly and find these lash adjuster stuck or weak? i also read from another post where the term "lash adjuster was collapsed" and not sure what that means??? Is this the state 5 of mine are in????? is that the term used when the procedure to fill them with oil and pressurize them is not possible. ??? SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Were they noisy before you took it apart? If the lash adjusters are loose, the clicking is a very ticky sound, not a deep knock, like a rod would make. I never did anything with any of mine in 3 reseals I've done. Just put them back in. But I knew the oil history, and they were queit before I began the reseal. Before I put the timing belts on, I use a drill with a socket drive adapter to spin the oil pump for a good minute or so to prime everything. Later, when I start the engine, the lifters will tick for a while, then eventually quiet down as a ll the air bubbles get worked out. I just took a look at a couple of spare ones. If they are full of oil, they don't move much by hand pressure. Took one apart. Put it back together, w/o oil, it moves a lot further. It's a close fitting piston kind of thing, and the extension that comes up with the ball on top for the rocker thingy. IF they were gunked up, I'd clean them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 I've soaked them for a couple days in a bowl of Seafoam to clean them, then soaked them in a bowl of oil. Seemed to work good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferp420 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 I had lost a rod bearing due to a bad lifter it was a test engine so no big loss but the bad lifter was very noticable while in the car after a minute of runnin the good lifters were rock solid the bad one colapsed when presure was put on it your lifters tjat have a little bit of play is probably were they were running when the car was running the ones that have no movement is probably because they are completely full.and are not compresed at all while at rest in the engine maybe evin have a bit of a gap when the valve springs are not compressed the hydrolic lifter is auto adjusting if it normaly rides at 3/4 of its through it will have a 1/4 of its through as play when out of the car and not under presure if it rides half way in its travel then you would get half the play or 7/8 traval you only get a 1/8 of slop if there is a slight gap between the lifter and cam there would be no slop at all because the lifter is at 100% of its lift using all its traval a bad lifter dosent pump up and wont hold pressure so it would have full traval or be all slop it sounds like all.of yours are good if you get it all back together and run it till.you have oil presure and then if you can move any of the valves / lifters by hand then there bad i hope all that makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenJ101 Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 Were they noisy before you took it apart? If the lash adjusters are loose, the clicking is a very ticky sound, not a deep knock, like a rod would make. there is a "normal" ticking sound while it's running. the sound that comes from an old chevy motor when the lifters need adjustment. nothing that caused me much concern. SJ Were they noisy before you took it apart? If the lash adjusters are loose, the clicking is a very ticky sound, not a deep knock, like a rod would make. ...........If they are full of oil, they don't move much by hand pressure. Took one apart. Put it back together, w/o oil, it moves a lot further. It's a close fitting piston kind of thing, and the extension that comes up with the ball on top for the rocker thingy. IF they were gunked up, I'd clean them. this might be the case with the 3 that wont move at all. they are not all gunked up. the inside of the motor and the lifters are rather clean really, vanish colored. so im gonna try to "clean" them. SJ I've soaked them for a couple days in a bowl of Seafoam to clean them, then soaked them in a bowl of oil. Seemed to work good. Thanks TomRhere, i'll try this method. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferp420 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 The 3 that don't move are causing the slight ticking that your hearing because they don't have contact with the cam all the time there's nothing wrong with the lifters but it sounds like you have some ware somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferp420 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) Doeh Edited March 5, 2017 by ferp420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 (edited) Pumping them up may help. Cleaning them can't hurt. But ultimately it's usually a combination of issues. Poor oil pressure and old seals at pump, cam carrier, etc. The usual fix is all new seals and shiny new oil pump. That always seemed to cure them. Can't buy oil pumps anymore though so you may have to live with it, if the engine 'lives' with it, that is. GD Edited March 6, 2017 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidfire10ring Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Sounds like you need to adjust all of them. There is a sequence of the firing order. Start at one; and bring to TDC and then check adjustment. Your manual will tell you the clearance. Then go to the next in order. 3, Then 2, and 4. Adjustment the valves so that you can barely get the feeler gauge into the stop. Then when done. Do it again, the sequence and double check. From 'bad' experience, looser valves will save the engine. Noisier, but you wont burn the valves out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 If you can't compress them with a C Clamp replace them. I've never known them to be easily fully pumped up in a bag of oil off the vehicle so the other 5 sound normal to me. Mizpah sells rebuilt ones for cheap or rebuilds yours for $5. Makes it a no brainer to just be done with it if there's any uncertainty. Every ticking EA82 and ER27 I've fixed with a new oil pump. Never needed to do more than that except on seized HLAs which were usually from overheated head gasket blown vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 My sample is smaller, but the handful of ea82s I've fixed lifter tick on all that was needed was the shaft seal on the oil pump, and possibly the other seals. Orings, cam tower, head gasket leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Yep Mickey Mouse gasket, shaft seal, (ea has an oring the ER engine doesn't fixes them frequently. It's common for that not to work, they usually just need another pump. I have a detailed write up on ticking that paints a complete picture of failure modes listed in order of most common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) Oddly when it is the pumps - they don't noticeably leak, fail or cause any issues besides TOD. So I'm not sure what the failure mode is but it's common and weird since it's not a clear failure mode. Like one you can easily inspect. It just works a huge percentage of the time (every time reseals haven't). I have seen Mickey Mouse oil pump orings where one of the small ears of that gasket gets sucked in and looks like PAC man. Wether that causes TOD I'm not sure but that doesn't look nominal. But here's the real point - I've seen newly installed gaskets exhibit that same deformation. Again I'm not sure if that's a cause but it certainly looks suspect. Maybe the pump flatness doesn't maintain proper clamping force on the gasket. Edited March 9, 2017 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Like this: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/78216-mickey-mouse-gasket-woes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 What would be interesting to find out is if this flatness could be measured and remedied now that oil pumps are hard to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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