threw a rod?

[alpop]

Son went out to start the '99 Legacy ej22 engine (160,000 miles) other morning and came back in the house with a shocked look on his face.  

 

You can start it but have to quickly turn it off since the noise is so terrible, it sounds like its ripping itself apart.  Don't think there's a pool of oil under it-

 

Is it gone?

 

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

start with the basics - check fluids and timing belt system components. lots of things can make noise; cracked flexplate, timing belt flopping around, clutch release and 5spd input shaft bearings, piston slap, etc.

[GreaseMonkey03]

Customer: my car sounds terrible I'm scared to drive it.

Me: remove heat shield

 

I would replace think with know and make sure all fluids are good. If you're mechanically inclined, remove the viewing panel for the timing belt. From the way things have been described to me by customers, it could be a can of altoids in the center console or a soda can rolling under the car (both true stories)

 

If you're not sure, you don't want to do further damage. Have it towed to a mechanic or someone that knows come to you and assess.

 

Had a customer once who said the car sounded like crap so they added oil and kept driving. Turns out the oil level was fine the belt had skipped and was on the verge of disintegrating . They could have done serious damage.

 

My point is, it could be ok or it could be toast. But it's worth paying to find out.

[Naked Buell]

I had a 2.2, just came back from a long trip parked it, ran into the house changed clothes and turned around and came to leave and started her up and hard clunk cluck clunk and then I shut her off really quick. The crankshaft bolt came loose the the pulley was loose to the point it broke the wood druf key way at the end of the crank. 

[GeneralDisorder]

2.2 phase II engines like that are renown for their ability to throw rods. Very common - so much so there are few left. Replace it with a 2.5.

 

GD

[alpop]

Definitely not the heat shield, I know what that sounds like.  I plan to check a few things today.

[alpop]

All fluids are fine, not a problem with belts etc. on the front of the engine.  Think I'll try to get it up the hill and in the garage and then investigate the timing belt/pulley situation. 

 

When I had my son run it for a few moments and I stood in front with the hood open, all the noise seemed to come from the front of the engine. 

 

Also he said that it had happened for a few moments earlier in the week but quickly went away.

 

This is a used engine (supposedly with about the same miles as the car - 160k) that a backyard mechanic that I bought the car from dropped in 6000 miles ago.  When I asked about the timing belt he said he had looked at it and it seemed fine, no other history known.

[AdventureSubaru]

Yeah. Pull the timing covers. If the tensioner is failing it will flop around making some ghastly noises. You're okay until the point that the belt skips/breaks. Easy fix if so. Just a timing job.

 

Check crank pulley for play.

 

If not and coming from the front center of the motor you're probably looking at a rod issue. As mentioned a 2.5 is the better motor to put in there. for your car you're most likely looking at a 2000-04ish motor. You intake manifold will bolt right to it. get the dual port exhaust Y pipe with the motor so it all matches up. If it's an automatic, swap the flex plate from the 2.2 to the 2.5 so they match.

[alpop]

If it is a timing belt/tensioner issue I suppose I have no way of telling if the belt hasn't already skipped and ruined the valves/engine?  Or if that was the case it wouldn't even start?

[AdventureSubaru]

Depends how badly. I had one with bent valves that I got running after a failed timing belt. (Bought it that way) ran rough and generated just enough power to move it around.

 

you wont know for sure until you get it timed and running right. I have a couple good used tensioners around if it's failed, you can put the good used tensioner in and retime it to make sure the engine is okay before moving forward.

[GreaseMonkey03]

If it's coming from the front, check the tensioner pulleys for the serpentine belts. Sometimes the bearings on these can go bad and the pulley will hit the timing cover and make some dreadful noises. If it's hard to see, you can peek at the timing cover directly behind them to see if there are any wear marks from the pulley hitting the cover.

Usually when they go, they go and take the belt with them. But you may have caught it early enough IF that's the case.

Without hearing the noise for myself I don't know if that's the case, but worth a quick check before you start tearing things apart.

You can also start the car with both belts removed to eliminate the possibility of the noise coming from an accessory.

Edited March 6, 2017 by GreaseMonkey03

[alpop]

Eh, good point GM03, I will do as suggested - the next nice day (still snowing today).

 

Call me a lightweight, but if its a timing belt/tensioner issue (best case scenario if not as GM03 suggests), but even so still possible that I've had interference and engine damage already, then I will do as my wife wants me to do and just get rid of it.

[GreaseMonkey03]

Usually a slipped belt will cause a rough running engine/poor timing. they don't normally slip enough to do damage and still be able to start. In other words, if the belt slipped that bad, you probably wouldn't be able to start it because the timing would be so off or the engine would run like a bull in a china shop.

The noise you are hearing could have nothing to do with the timing at all. It's just something that is good practice to check and eliminate as a possibility. It could also be as was said, the timing belt tensioner bouncing around. In which case probably no damage was done, it's just noisy.

Pulleys can also make some nasty noise as well.

It's difficult to say without being present to hear the noise, but it could be a very easy and cheap repair. Even if the timing belt needs to be replaced, it will take you a few hours but totally doable. Take your time and do it right. Watch some videos. Subarus are easy for belts.

[idosubaru]

1. pulls timing cover - is the crank pulley borked?

2. line up timing marks and see if they're still properly lined up

3. start engine and see if the timing belt is flopping around.

 

you can leave the covers and even the crank pulley and all the drivebelts off while you test it - it'll start, run, and drive on battery power. 

[alpop]

Yeah Yeah, this is all new ground for me (timing belt) so it is an argument to do it.  If it is something relatively simple it could save us from a coupla thousand dollar loss.  Typically I get cars with chains so you don't have to bother with this.

 

It seems like I've been having to fix/replace something on this Subie every month lately so its sits unusable until I get around to it, so my wife says its not worth bothering with. She's right it probably sits there unusable about a third of the time lately.

 

If I can fix it for a few hundred and then even sell it would avoid the loss.

 

I will probably do as suggested on the weekend.

[GreaseMonkey03]

The way subarus are engineered and built, they are the easiest cars to find parts for and hands down the easiest cars to work on overall. If you can get used to some of their quirks, it's a piece of proverbial cake to keep it running until it rusts apart. And then you can probably fix that too.

 

Get your head under hood and take a good look around for anything that seems suspicious that could be causing the noise. Sometimes it's staring you in the face. Subarus have very few secrets, you can literally see everything.

 

As of right now, anything we say is speculation. Could very well be a cheap easy fix.

[DaveT]

With an older car, you sometimes get a run of small to medium repairs. Get past them, and it should level off again.

[1 Lucky Texan]

yeah, 160K miles and 18 year old car?

 

it's gonna need more than just oil changes

Edited March 7, 2017 by 1 Lucky Texan

[alpop]

Pulled off all the belts, tensionsers, covers etc. so no accessories are spinning and still makes the terrible noise.

 

It starts and runs (briefly since you have to shut it off the noise is so bad), the noise is like something is spinning real fast, perhaps uncontrollably and making a terrible noise while its doing it.  If I had to put a name on it, I would say its a "like something's stripped" noise.   Main pulley does spin.  No codes.

 

I looked at the procedure for getting at the timing belt and decided I'm not interested.

 

How much does one of these things go for when it needs an engine?

 

1999 Legacy 30th ann. ed, 2.2 automatic, beautiful/exceptional body, paint, interior etc.  Only things are power antenna broken (again) and ac is cool, not cold.  Lots and lots and lots of new parts (bummer).

[GeneralDisorder]

Not much anymore. $500 tops. I bought the same car, same condition, low miles, about 5 years ago for $700. Put in a 2000-2004 style 2.5 engine for $800 and been driving it since. The 2.2 phase II is known for severe oil consumption.

 

Cheapest way to go is call yards and look for a 99 to 04 2.5 engine that's been hit in the front and blown the belts off. Buy a set of valves, lap them in, OEM turbo head gaskets (770's) and do the 105k maintenance, etc before dropping it in. For even better results knurl the piston skirts and throw on a set of rings.

 

GD

[AdventureSubaru]

Depending on the body/paint condition ive seen them sell for $1000 but $500ish is just about right. Book value is probably around 2000 running well. Someone like me would pick one up, spend 500 to 800 on a used motor and drop it in. Doing it ones self makes it a good deal and saves some $$$ by usong ones own time. Paying a shop to drop a motor in brings the price up to 1500 to 1800 and at that point after you factor in little things like exhaust gaskets, oil change often timing belt and its the same cost and simpler to just buy a good running car.

 

If you know the cars history and that it has been well maintained, sourcing a used motor and either putting it in yourself or even paying a shop or local subaru guy to put it in still keeps you ahead financially vs starting over with another car that may come with its own unknowns and issues.

[alpop]

I swore off 2.5s a long time ago, you all know why.  Looking at Craigslist here in this area the car would probably go for 3K in good running condition.

 

 Subarus do bring a premium here in snow country because of the AWD. We don't have salt on the roads, just rock, snow and ice.  And after this extremely snowy winter (driving on snow and ice probably half the time for 4 months) people are on to the Subarus big time.  

 

I will probably try $900 with two sets of wheels/tires. Local shop quoted me $5500 for new block and re-built heads.  Ha Ha.

[AdventureSubaru]

Not sure your history.. the 99+ 2.5 is a completely different animal from the earlier problematic ones if that's the case.

 

If you have subaru folks in your area you can probably get closer to that asking price. My last several subarus were intentionally bought that way. Good body with a bad motor or transmission. I save $$$ by fixing it myself.

[idosubaru]

You're like 10 minutes of work away from seeing the timing belt - it's almost silly to not *at least* look.

 

if you removed all the belts for the accessories you're almost able to see the timing belts already. (Subaru timing belts are way easier than other models). 

 

1.  remove 2 12mm bolts for the A/C idler

 

2. remove 22mm crank bolt  (stick a large screw driver through the rear bellhousing access hole plug to keep engine from rotating.  like this, i use the first method:

https://www.google.com/search?q=subaru+bellhousing+access+hole&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj58ISIxPbSAhXFSCYKHYCACP0Q_AUIBygC&biw=1164&bih=835#imgrc=3US_3tisDsu1_M:

http://s226.photobucket.com/user/boostedbug/media/Subaru%20conversion/valance019.jpg.html

 

3. remove 10mm timing covers

 

That's it - then you can see if it's a pulley or tensioner flopping. 

 

You can even just remove the 3 drivers side 10mm bolts to see the belt and maybe catch a glimpse oft he