Subaru Mechanical Problems

[mmboys07]

Since 1995 my immediate family has owned 7 Vehicles:  95 Legacy; 07 Outback; 14 Outback; 99 Civic; 01 Odyssey; 05 RSX; 03 Tacoma.

Of those, the 3 Subaru products had major mechanical issues; the other 4 none.

 

95 Legacy; 3 failed transmissions before 60,000 miles

07 Outback; oil leaks begin at 70,000 with head gasket replacement at 95,000

14 Outback; head gasket blown at 53,000 (currently in shop)

 

99 Civic; wife drove for 18 years; nothing but regular servicing.  Just sold on private market for 3500.  Not bad.

01 Odyssey; sold on private market after 6 years with 90,000 miles and no issues at all.  Normal servicing.

05 RSX; Daughter' car humming along at 83,000 miles; not one issue beyond normal servicing.

03 Tacoma; Son's truck humming along at 130,000 miles; not one issue beyond normal servicing.

 

Conclusion:  beyond Subaru's 4 wheel drive capability; Subaru products are garbage.  I am done with Subaru.

[BEECHBM69]

Since 1995 my immediate family has owned 7 Vehicles:  95 Legacy; 07 Outback; 14 Outback; 99 Civic; 01 Odyssey; 05 RSX; 03 Tacoma.

Of those, the 3 Subaru products had major mechanical issues; the other 4 none.

 

95 Legacy; 3 failed transmissions before 60,000 miles

07 Outback; oil leaks begin at 70,000 with head gasket replacement at 95,000

14 Outback; head gasket blown at 53,000 (currently in shop)

 

99 Civic; wife drove for 18 years; nothing but regular servicing.  Just sold on private market for 3500.  Not bad.

01 Odyssey; sold on private market after 6 years with 90,000 miles and no issues at all.  Normal servicing.

05 RSX; Daughter' car humming along at 83,000 miles; not one issue beyond normal servicing.

03 Tacoma; Son's truck humming along at 130,000 miles; not one issue beyond normal servicing.

 

Conclusion:  beyond Subaru's 4 wheel drive capability; Subaru products are garbage.  I am done with Subaru.

 

There seems to be another common denominator in your mechanical maladies aside from brand. 

 

Since everything else belonged to other family members, the problem may reside with you, and not Subaru.......... Just a thought........

 

Dan

Edited March 19, 2017 by BEECHBM69

[AdventureSubaru]

lol. How hard would you theoretically have to thrash a 95 legacy to kill 3 transmissions that fast? Geez.

 

You wont be convincing us though. Too many of these things hitting 300k and beyond. We know better than one single anecdote. You're either unlucky or abusive to those cars. Or both.

 

Nothing wrong with Hondas and Toyotas though. Enjoy them if that's the way you're going.

[keith3267]

When I bought my 2014 Legacy, Consumer Reports ranked its reliability in a tie with Toyota in first place.  However, among all the new vehicles I have purchased over the years, this one has had the most problems so far.  Funny, my Saturn turned out to have the least issues of all, having fewer problems in 275k miles than the Subaru has had in 53k miles, but the Saturn was the basic model, single cam engine, stick shift and AC.  No other options.

[1 Lucky Texan]

I don't think everyone has had quite the same 'garbage' experience you have. But, I admit, I'm not happy my WRX needed a transmission rebuild at 65K miles. - however, if I had quit Honda when my first one dropped a valve in cyl 2, I wouldn't have had 19 years of reliable service from my second Honda (well, except for no a/c the last 10 years). My BIL thought I was insane for buying a second Honda. I knew it was a one-off event.

 

easy to find people with anecdotal problems with any brand.

Edited March 19, 2017 by 1 Lucky Texan

[mmboys07]

Nope.  I was responsible for servicing on all of the cars I referenced.  My son and daughter were/are in the home.  My wife does nothing but drive.  As for the legacy; the original transmission blew out on a road trip several hundred miles from home; a real hassle.  The dealer put in a replacement (warranty).  It failed within two weeks.  "Well, we put in a refurbished transmission."  They replaced that, the next one failed as well.  They took the car off my hands and I bought the Odyssey.  Yes, I am aware of all the stories about Subaru's lasting 300,000 miles and so on.  My Subaru specialist mechanic explained it to me this way:  Subaru doesn't always put the best materials into their gaskets and other parts.  Once these are replaced the basic engine will last forever.  Well, getting to that forever, has been pretty damn pricey for me.

[AdventureSubaru]

It happens. Luck of the draw sometimes.

 

On the head gaskets there were some known flaws for certain motors/years that have factory upgraded parts to fix the issue.

 

My Subarus in the driveway are at 243,000 and 276,000 miles and no complaints.

 

My wife drives a newer one now but her old outback was sold still running well at 382,000 miles. My old impreza was sold due to rust at about 280,000 miles but still mechanically sound.

 

Sounds like you had some bad luck on your subarus if your driving habits were normal and you kept up on maintenance. Honda and Toyota also put out plenty of models capable of 300,000 miles and beyond. The difference that makes this forum what it is comes from the versatility of the car itself (AWD/4wd etc.) and the ease of maintenance. I've swapped motors from 1979 Subarus through 2006 and the job is all basically the same. Subarus are ideal for the Do-it-yourselfers because there is more parts interchange, a simpler platform to work with, more space, and fewer special tools to maintain them. In my experience, mechanical work on a subaru takes about half the time of most other cars.

 

if you're not a DIYer, you wont notice any large difference in maintaining a Subaru over the years vs. Honda/Toyota and other good brands other than a little bit higher cost of labor for the "other guys"

 

Honda Accord Crosstrek and the newer Toyota Rav4s are both designed to compete with Subarus market space. If you like what Subaru has to offer, but want to pursue other brands, those might be the happy medium.

Edited March 19, 2017 by AdventureSubaru

[mmboys07]

Well, for a long time I thought I must just be having bad luck, but when the Subaru guy came out Friday and told me; "Bad news, there is engine gases in your radiator; head gasket has failed"; I just didn't know what to think.  You are kidding me?????????????

[matt167]

Considering the 2014 head gasket is well outside of the norm. The cars are getting old enough we would expect to see some failures as happened with the earlier EJ25's but the failures that are happening are oil control issues.. The '95 Legacy trans would also be out of the norm, and outside of the first one, was probably a technician mistake that ate the other 2.... Too many Subaru's make 200k+ miles on average to consider them garbage.

[keith3267]

Which engine in the Outback?  You are scaring me a little as my 14 Legacy 2.5 has 53k miles on it.  If it is going to blow a head gasket, I guess it would be better now, while it is still under warranty.

Edited March 20, 2017 by keith3267

[AdventureSubaru]

Which engine in the Outback?  You are scaring me a little as my 14 Legacy 2.5 has 53k miles on it.  If it is going to blow a head gasket, I guess it would be better now, while it is still under warranty.

 

The FB and EZ motors are not known for this. EZ motors are already known to hit 300k  and head gaskets were not an issue. The first couple years the FB motors had an oil consumption issue, but that has been resolved. I've not heard of there being any head gasket issues with FB  motors yet. Especially as they're only a few years old.

[1 Lucky Texan]

The FB and EZ motors are not known for this. EZ motors are already known to hit 300k  and head gaskets were not an issue. The first couple years the FB motors had an oil consumption issue, but that has been resolved. I've not heard of there being any head gasket issues with FB  motors yet. Especially as they're only a few years old.

 

aside from mentioning that EZ engines are much less common than EJ and are experiencing 'some' HG issues (not sure about HG 'rate' of failure) I otherwise agree with this.

 

mmboys07, are you the original owner of the '14?  did the '14 experience any overheating from a different issue that led to the HG failure?

Edited March 20, 2017 by 1 Lucky Texan

[AdventureSubaru]

Yes. I would rephrase that they don't seem to be a common issue. Seen several over 200k on original head gaskets. Only seen a few turn up on the boards that request help for head gasket related issues.

 

So far it seems like there was a heat related issue prompting the HG failure.

[DaveT]

Coolant level should be checked weekly for average daily driver. Both in the overflow tank, and the upper hose, by squeezing and listening for the jiggle pin and gurgling of air.

 

Waiting for an over temperature indication on the dashboard is too late.

[carfreak85]

LOL, you're out of the Subaru game?  MORE FOR ME!!!!

 

You got lucky that you didn't keep that Honda Odyssey as long as you kept your Civic, otherwise your transmission would have surely s#it the bed by now.

[Numbchux]

Yep, they're terrible cars, don't ever buy another one. And tell all your friends.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The last thing I need is more people driving up the resale value.

 

 

 

 

Why are you here? I don't care if you like them or not, everyone's experience is different. I'm the first to admit that there are a brands that I won't try again due to a bad experience that could easily have been a fluke or unrelated. Your 3 car experience is not going to change my mind. I think I've owned 16 Subarus, all purchased in a considerable state of neglect.

 

 

The situation on your '95 obviously was incompetence, either with the installer or rebuilder. Yes, the EJ251/253 engines are not great, this is extremely well documented, and has been since they first arrived (almost 2 decades ago), I do avoid those, personally. A head gasket failure on a 2014 is VERY rare, I'd bet money it's a mis-diagnosis, honestly. Is that the same shop that wrecked 3 transmissions?

[AdventureSubaru]

Lol. We might be onto something here. Can we organize an USMB advertising campaign to spread the word on how terrible Subarus are?

 

Maybe once they no longer are known as the most versatile and durable cars with the highest brand loyalty ever, they will also no longer hold the highest resale value and we can buy ours for the price of a dodge neon or chevy cavalier or tin can korean product.

 

That way everyone else loses and we win

[mmboys07]

Which engine in the Outback?  You are scaring me a little as my 14 Legacy 2.5 has 53k miles on it.  If it is going to blow a head gasket, I guess it would be better now, while it is still under warranty.

Hi.  The same as yours.  I don't know.  I had no advance indication anything was wrong.  I was 7 miles from home and the red temp. gage came on; brake light started to flash; cruise control light flashed; engine check light came on.  The car drove normally; no smells; no loss of power; nothing, other than all the gages going wild.  Headed to my local Subaru dealer and got the verdict.  By the way, I don't like this model doesn't have a progressive temperature gage; the red light comes on when it is too late??   When I say I was 7 miles from home, I mean I had only driven 7 miles from home.

[mmboys07]

aside from mentioning that EZ engines are much less common than EJ and are experiencing 'some' HG issues (not sure about HG 'rate' of failure) I otherwise agree with this.

 

mmboys07, are you the original owner of the '14?  did the '14 experience any overheating from a different issue that led to the HG failure?

Sir;  I am the original owner.  I have used the same Subaru mechanics for years for my servicing.  I had no over heating issues; or any other sign at all.  In fact, a couple of weeks ago when I got my last oil change I asked the guy if he had seen any gasket issues with the newer models (thinking of my 07).  He said, we have seen some out of the blue failures year 13 going forward.  I thought this problem was solved.

[mmboys07]

Yep, they're terrible cars, don't ever buy another one. And tell all your friends.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The last thing I need is more people driving up the resale value.

 

 

 

 

Why are you here? I don't care if you like them or not, everyone's experience is different. I'm the first to admit that there are a brands that I won't try again due to a bad experience that could easily have been a fluke or unrelated. Your 3 car experience is not going to change my mind. I think I've owned 16 Subarus, all purchased in a considerable state of neglect.

 

 

The situation on your '95 obviously was incompetence, either with the installer or rebuilder. Yes, the EJ251/253 engines are not great, this is extremely well documented, and has been since they first arrived (almost 2 decades ago), I do avoid those, personally. A head gasket failure on a 2014 is VERY rare, I'd bet money it's a mis-diagnosis, honestly. Is that the same shop that wrecked 3 transmissions?

Yes,  In fact, I thought about this.  But, when the gages started to go wild, it was too late to get to my regular mechanic.  But, man that would be a huge mis-diagnosis wouldn't it??  They wouldn't do it just to get the warranty money would they???

[mmboys07]

Yes. I would rephrase that they don't seem to be a common issue. Seen several over 200k on original head gaskets. Only seen a few turn up on the boards that request help for head gasket related issues.

 

Coolant level should be checked weekly for average daily driver. Both in the overflow tank, and the upper hose, by squeezing and listening for the jiggle pin and gurgling of air.

 

Waiting for an over temperature indication on the dashboard is too late.

 

So far it seems like there was a heat related issue prompting the HG failure.

What the H are you talking about?? My mechanic checks fluid levels at every servicing and oil change.  Plus the 2014 model does not have a progressive temperature indicator gage.  It has a red light that comes on once the radiator is hot?????  How in the hell would you know if it is "getting" hot??  Besides, it never came on at all until all the gages started going wild, and I took it to the dealer right away (about 5 miles).  So, what heat issue prompting HG failure????  Oh, by the way; when it first came on I pulled over, I opened the hood; the cap did not feel abnormally hot.  So, I proceeded to the dealer.

[GeneralDisorder]

Every brand has its problem models and years. Honda and Toyota are no different.

 

You have anecdotal evidence based on owning three whole Subarus.

 

The 95 was just a fluke. That never happens with those. The second one was probably a bad reman or improper install.

 

The 07 had oil leaks. Sure they all do from 99 to 09. We know this. I do two a week at m shop.

 

I would get another opinion on the 14. They aren't know for that.

 

As stated that Odyssey blew a trans on the next guy. You were lucky to get 90k. My neighbor got 60k on his 01 before trans #1 went.

 

The other honda models you have and the yota all have exceptionally good drivetrains unlikely to fail. But it's luck of the draw. The Yota 5VZFE will sometimes lose a head gasket and the K20 in the RSX could blow one as well. It happens on both. Not terribly frequently but as frequently as 95 Legacy trans failure at 60k. I've worked on all those vehicles and a whole lot more - nothing is perfect or guaranteed..... except a Chevy LSx. LoL.

 

GD

[DaveT]

I don't know what the normal service intervals are for new cars.  But if they are more than a week apart, it's very easy to loose enough coolant through a small leak to ruin head gaskets or worse, in any engine.   I learned long ago to do this, as I mostly have only maintained older cars.  If I were to buy a much more expensive newer one, I still would check frequently, as a lot more is at risk.  When I began driving, the guys that pumped the gas checked oil and coolant while the pump ran.  I just got used to doing the checks on my own when everywhere went to pump your own gas. 

 

I'm used to cars that have gauges, I don't like the trend back toward stupid lights at all.  By the time those lights come on, it's too late, especially if it's due to low coolant level. 

 

In most if not all Subarus, if enough air is in the coolant system, it eventually interferes with the water pump circulating coolant.  It doesn't take a huge amount of air.  Maybe a couple of water bottles worth.  Air pocket gets into water pump.  Water pumps suck at pumping air.  Coolant stops circulating.  This can make the radiator not hot, since air was still cooling it.  Head gaskets get toasted.  Sometimes the pocket moves, and circulation restarts.  It gets random. 

I am most familiar with the older models directly, newer ones mostly from what I've read on this forum.
 

[mmboys07]

I don't know what the normal service intervals are for new cars.  But if they are more than a week apart, it's very easy to loose enough coolant through a small leak to ruin head gaskets or worse, in any engine.   I learned long ago to do this, as I mostly have only maintained older cars.  If I were to buy a much more expensive newer one, I still would check frequently, as a lot more is at risk.  When I began driving, the guys that pumped the gas checked oil and coolant while the pump ran.  I just got used to doing the checks on my own when everywhere went to pump your own gas. 

 

I'm used to cars that have gauges, I don't like the trend back toward stupid lights at all.  By the time those lights come on, it's too late, especially if it's due to low coolant level. 

 

In most if not all Subarus, if enough air is in the coolant system, it eventually interferes with the water pump circulating coolant.  It doesn't take a huge amount of air.  Maybe a couple of water bottles worth.  Air pocket gets into water pump.  Water pumps suck at pumping air.  Coolant stops circulating.  This can make the radiator not hot, since air was still cooling it.  Head gaskets get toasted.  Sometimes the pocket moves, and circulation restarts.  It gets random. 

 

I am most familiar with the older models directly, newer ones mostly from what I've read on this forum.

 

Thank you for this.  I don't get the engineering idea about not having a progressive temp. gauge.  Actually, I wondered about that when I bought the car.  Still, the whole thing seems strange to me.  But, your air bubble explanation at least makes sense, and removes some of the mystery from the episode.  Boy, some days I really miss my first car; Plymouth slant 6!

[GeneralDisorder]

The temp idiot lights are social engineering. Needed because the consumer is too stupid to understand real engine temp fluctuations between thermostat opening temp and fan set points. Also not needed for the tech as the temp is available in digital format through the diagnostic port using a sub-$50 scanner w/live data.

 

GD