wavekayaker Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 The girlfriend has a 2010 Forester w/ 110000 miles. In the last year or so the car has started using oil (~ 1qt/ 1000 miles. I need to do a leak down test to get a good idea of where the oil is going ( none on the drive, no visible smoking). I changed the PCV valve and that helped a bit. The question is on these ej253s how common is it to just need rings without touching the cylinders? Car is also starting to have pretty bad torque bind (5mt trans). Pretty resigned to replacing the center diff at this point. . Seems every time we ale a trip we are in my 99 EJ 22 swapped Outback . Love that rig! Thanks for an input guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 If it were me, I'd try a thicker oil like 10w 30 (assuming it's running 5w 30 now) synthetic (spend the extra $15 as it's better than conventional) at next oil change, then watch it like a hawk. If it looses almost none, great. If it's loosing 50% less, can try 10w 40 at the next change. I think the too-thin oil is to reduce start-up emissions for the epa tests, but seems to cause issues like spun bearings, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Good idea to check but on that year and engine it's the rings. I'd try at least one oil change with thicker oil. Id run 20w50 in non-winter one oil change just to see what happens. It's such a common issue I'm sure you can google for a runs down on repair process. Messing with modern Subaru (and other) rings isn't something to take lightly. GD says a new person is going to mess it up their first attempt but maybe he's taking about honing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Mostly I'm talking about splitting the case. Rings are not too difficult. Still a lot of places for the un-initiated to screw up. But yes the biggest mistake you can make is to "hone" the cylinders. Just clean the pistons and install some quality rings. The first FB motors had problems due to the rings being a low force design and not controlling oil. Most were fixed under an extended warranty. Replacing the rings on an FB is a very involved process. VERY. INVOLVED. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Mostly I'm talking about splitting the case. Rings are not too difficult. Still a lot of places for the un-initiated to screw up. But yes the biggest mistake you can make is to "hone" the cylinders. Just clean the pistons and install some quality rings. The first FB motors had problems due to the rings being a low force design and not controlling oil. Most were fixed under an extended warranty. Replacing the rings on an FB is a very involved process. VERY. INVOLVED. GD My son works at a Subaru dealer and if they have to fix an engine under warranty for oil consumption they replace the short block. I'm not sure many dealers would want to bother with replacing rings especially under warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 On the early warranty claims they did replace rings. But as the program ramped up they switched to short block replacement instead. It's faster and less chance of a screw up. GD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavekayaker Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 Thanks guys! I wish we were closer to GD, would probably just drop it off for some love 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I did finally find a non-dealer Subaru tech near me, but now I have one that lives in my house! Still wish I lived near one of the few Subie gurus on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 The dealers are quite limited in what they do, how they do it, and their knowledge of cars made more than 5-10 years back. Some dealers have master techs that worked there when those cars commonly came in, but for the most part the younger guys never see much outside of warranty. They also rarely get inside the short block (most dealers likely never authorize such invasive surgery) and they do no performance work, etc. Dealer techs don't get the opportunity to build and test engines making 500+ HP and so have a much narrower perspective on what can and cannot be done with a Subaru engine. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Mostly I'm talking about splitting the case. Rings are not too difficult. Still a lot of places for the un-initiated to screw up. But yes the biggest mistake you can make is to "hone" the cylinders. Just clean the pistons and install some quality rings. The first FB motors had problems due to the rings being a low force design and not controlling oil. Most were fixed under an extended warranty. Replacing the rings on an FB is a very involved process. VERY. INVOLVED. GD I do believe this OP's car is still an EJ 2.5 (EJ253) First year FB25 in the Forester is 2011. So, no need to split the case to replace rings. Simply pull the heads and pull the wrist pins and pistons come right out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I do believe this OP's car is still an EJ 2.5 (EJ253) First year FB25 in the Forester is 2011. So, no need to split the case to replace rings. Simply pull the heads and pull the wrist pins and pistons come right out. DOH! That's correct - EJ engines you can just swap the rings. No problem. The pistons are right and left though so don't mix them up. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 The dealers are quite limited in what they do, how they do it, and their knowledge of cars made more than 5-10 years back. Some dealers have master techs that worked there when those cars commonly came in, but for the most part the younger guys never see much outside of warranty. They also rarely get inside the short block (most dealers likely never authorize such invasive surgery) and they do no performance work, etc. Dealer techs don't get the opportunity to build and test engines making 500+ HP and so have a much narrower perspective on what can and cannot be done with a Subaru engine. GD Basically dealer mechs are parts changers. There are likely some that have more experience but likely don't get much opportunity to do anything other than change parts on customers cars. What they do in their spare time may be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Yep - but once they get into modifications, etc, they rarely stay working at the dealer level. There are some old timers at some of our local dealers that remember rebuilding 4 speeds in EA's back when they were new. But it's getting very rare. The auto manufacturers find it easier to swap parts than train master techs. Used to be parts were expensive and labor was cheap. Now it's exactly the opposite. Labor is very expensive and we are swimming in cheap parts from China, Taiwan, Indonesia, Mexico, etc. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavekayaker Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 Got a little more of the story from the girlfriend this weekend. About a year ago she smelled a burned oil smell and took the car to the dealer where they told her it was very low on oil. After that the car started using more oil. Sounds like she might have messed up more than the rings. Looks like new short blocks can be had for $1700, so..... Probably going to have her get the new short block, gaskets, center diff, and timing set and I'll spend some quality time with her car while she drives my 99 Outback.... I needed a new clutch anyway . Thanks for all the input and advice guys! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Why spend 1700 when you need a $50 set of rings? Cut open the oil filter and check for metal. Probably doesn't need a bottom end just rings typically. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavekayaker Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 Good point GD. My thoughts were that after running it low on oil, there was probably more wrong than just rings. She ran it low a year or so ago, so probably would not see anything in the filter. Downtime is also a concern. The only thing I have done rings on was an old diesel dozer and I didn't want to spend the time and her money to figure out I didn't get it quite right. I might just go for it and see what happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 DOH! That's correct - EJ engines you can just swap the rings. No problem. The pistons are right and left though so don't mix them up. GD As long as the piston arrow marks are faced forward, and "A" size pistons go in "A" marked holes and "B' in "B" holes it does not matter which side they end up on. Wirst pin offset only changes if you put them in with the arrows backward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) True but because of the arrows the pistons are right and left part numbers. The valve reliefs on the AVLS pistons mean they can't be turned upside down like the older pistons. On the older engines you would have the A or B upside down on one side of the engine because they only made A pistons and B pistons. With the AVLS motors they make A, and B and RH and LH pistons in each size. The dome shape of the piston fits the chamber shape on the heads like a key in a lock. So if you flipped the piston upside down it would hit the cylinder head or valves at TDC. GD Edited June 8, 2017 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 True but because of the arrows the pistons are right and left part numbers. The valve reliefs on the AVLS pistons mean they can't be turned upside down like the older pistons. On the older engines you would have the A or B upside down on one side of the engine because they only made A pistons and B pistons. With the AVLS motors they make A, and B and RH and LH pistons in each size. The dome shape of the piston fits the chamber shape on the heads like a key in a lock. So if you flipped the piston upside down it would hit the cylinder head or valves at TDC. GD Ahh yes. I had not considered the domed pistons on AVLS engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 @GeneralDisorder What oil do you recommend for a high mileage Ej253 that hasn't been re-ringed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 We like a 5w40 for helping with oil control. Amsoil makes a Euro blend in 5w40 that is a little bit cheaper than the 10w40 XL, and is still rated at 10,000 miles. It is the full SAPS blend - IE it does not have the expensive additives used on the reduced SAPS blends specified for certain European car emissions systems. The Euro 5w40 is the oil we sell the most of to our customers. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 On 10/1/2018 at 11:04 AM, GeneralDisorder said: We like a 5w40 for helping with oil control. Amsoil makes a Euro blend in 5w40 that is a little bit cheaper than the 10w40 XL, and is still rated at 10,000 miles. It is the full SAPS blend - IE it does not have the expensive additives used on the reduced SAPS blends specified for certain European car emissions systems. The Euro 5w40 is the oil we sell the most of to our customers. GD @GeneralDisorder Would that be the "Classic" or "Improved" blend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 The classic blend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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