91 Loyale....To keep til death do us part

[DaveT]

If you are running 3ATs, the oil pump drive shaft.

[MR_Loyale]

I still love and drive exclusively old cars for personal use.

 

1991 legacy SS Turbo 5MT

1986 GL Hatch (10" lift)

1986 Pontiac Trans Am (daily)

1969 GMC K2500

1956 Buick Roadmaster

 

I just checked - still no love for the EA82.

 

It doesn't really have anything to do with needing to own something newer. It's practicality - being able to get parts for them. EA stuff no longer makes an excellent daily because you can't get parts easily. Even my Legacy is tough being a turbo model. Many parts have had to be custom made. The Trans Am on the other hand - no problem at all. Same with the 69 truck. Practicality - the vehicles I need on a regular basis have to have support. Doesn't hurt if they are fun to drive too.

 

GD

 

You have zero idea why Nona, Dave or I desire to keep our cars. It has nothing to do with what you like or the technical spec of the vehicle. I for one don't set my watch by what you like or don't like.  Not every treasured artifact of life is a go fast, high revving cool boy car or something expensive or even rare. Maybe someone gave birth to their only child in that particular car, perhaps the last they saw their dying mother was in a trip with that particular car. Maybe the only happy times they had were in that particular car. That car may have been owned by their now dead only child or their deceased father owned the car and taught them to drive in it, You have ZERO idea of how a particular vehicle played a role in a person's life you just crap on it.  I checked and nowhere in the vehicle manual did it say one wasn't allowed to enjoy a vehicle unless it was sanctioned by a master mechanic. And ironically your practicality list speaks more toward one buying GM and not Subaru. That will go over real well with the fan boys.

 

No love for EA82? I am fine with that, really I am. But I really didn't ask and pardon me if I don't care if your do or do not like the EA82.  I personally don't like cilantro- do you care?   I could write a book on my gripes with that engine, truth be told. I have lived it. THere were some good things though too. For example, being a non-interference engine, how many newbie wrenchers got the timing belts wrong the first time and lived to tell abut it? According to wikipedia some of the systems of the EJ were prototyped on the EA82:

 

"Most of the technical advancements introduced to the EA82 were utilized in the next generation Subaru EJ engine, specifically, the SOHC valvetrain, and multi-point fuel injection."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_EA_engine

 

 

 

 

Thank god your input wasn't given when they stopped making parts for the B17 or B29 or we wouldn't be able to see any actually flying today. The Enola Gay would have been melted down for Chinese rims if you had your way. Oh and don't bother going to McMinnville and seeing either the Spruce Goose or the SR17, they stopped making parts for those as well. Scratch the trip to Hawaii to see Mighty Mo, no parts either.

Edited July 5, 2017 by MR_Loyale

[Nonaof4]

You have zero idea why Nona, Dave or I desire to keep our cars. It has nothing to do with what you like or the technical spec of the vehicle. I for one don't set my watch by what you like or don't like.  Not every treasured artifact of life is a go fast, high revving cool boy car or something expensive or even rare. Maybe someone gave birth to their only child in that particular car, perhaps the last they saw their dying mother was in a trip with that particular car. Maybe the only happy times they had were in that particular car. That car may have been owned by their now dead only child or their deceased father owned the car and taught them to drive in it, You have ZERO idea of how a particular vehicle played a role in a person's life you just crap on it.  I checked and nowhere in the vehicle manual did it say one wasn't allowed to enjoy a vehicle unless it was sanctioned by a master mechanic. And ironically your practicality list speaks more toward one buying GM and not Subaru. That will go over real well with the fan boys.

 

No love for EA82? I am fine with that, really I am. But I really didn't ask and pardon me if I don't care if your do or do not like the EA82.  I personally don't like cilantro- do you care?   I could write a book on my gripes with that engine, truth be told. I have lived it. THere were some good things though too. For example, being a non-interference engine, how many newbie wrenchers got the timing belts wrong the first time and lived to tell abut it? According to wikipedia some of the systems of the EJ were prototyped on the EA82:

 

"Most of the technical advancements introduced to the EA82 were utilized in the next generation Subaru EJ engine, specifically, the SOHC valvetrain, and multi-point fuel injection."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_EA_engine

 

 

 

 

Thank god your input wasn't given when they stopped making parts for the B17 or B29 or we wouldn't be able to see any actually flying today. The Enola Gay would have been melted down for Chinese rims if you had your way. Oh and don't bother going to McMinnville and seeing either the Spruce Goose or the SR17, they stopped making parts for those as well. Scratch the trip to Hawaii to see Mighty Mo, no parts either.

You just brought a tear to my eye, and hit the nail on the head. There is in emotional bond with my car for more than one reason. I have read and appreciate all the technical information, but I have a feeling I am just going to drive on with her for a while yet.

[BEECHBM69]

You just brought a tear to my eye, and hit the nail on the head. There is in emotional bond with my car for more than one reason. I have read and appreciate all the technical information, but I have a feeling I am just going to drive on with her for a while yet.

 

Only you can decide what it's worth, and how much effort you are willing to put into keeping it. 

 

I just spent 5 months, working a little everyday before work and weekends, to replace sheetmetal on my hatchback. I will never recoup the cost in time, energy and effort if I sold it, but it was a worthwhile endeavor to me, and that's all that matters. 

 

Dan

[Gloyale]

Thank god your input wasn't given when they stopped making parts for the B17 or B29 or we wouldn't be able to see any actually flying today. The Enola Gay would have been melted down for Chinese rims if you had your way. Oh and don't bother going to McMinnville and seeing either the Spruce Goose or the SR17, they stopped making parts for those as well. Scratch the trip to Hawaii to see Mighty Mo, no parts either.

 

Those are decomissioned planes that the military no longer flies

 

you are reinforcing the argument that the EA82 belongs in museums.

[GeneralDisorder]

You're absolutely right. I said they don't make good daily drivers. Neither does the Enola Gay or the Spruce Goose.

 

You made my argument for me. Put them in a museum collection (that no one will visit). The support for driving them doesn't exist.

 

The sad thing is that my 86 Trans Am from the same era makes a great daily. I can get parts anywhere for it. Same with my 69 GMC truck.

 

The 56 Roadmaster on the other hand is very much like the EA82. I have to get parts from specialty Nailhead and Buick restoration shops. Thats why it goes to car shows, parades, and otherwise lives in a garage where it gets wiped down with diapers. I could drive it anytime I like - but that would be stupid. It's also a barge with a Dynaflow and other than attracting lots of attention it's pretty ho-hum to drive.

 

The EA82 would be fine without parts support except for the fact that the engine was, to Subaru standards, absolute junk. The B17 and B29 was, manifestly, not junk. The B36 on the other hand was complete garbage and none of those are flying. Because people would most likely be killed in the process. EA82's are kinda like the B36. Lots of people loved the idea, but the implementation was sh**ty and is best remembered from old news reels rather than experienced first hand.

 

GD

[Gloyale]

I would love to keep it but it's a matter of space, only have parking for 1 vehicle.

 

I hear ya.  I drove EA82 for 15 years from 1999 until 2014.  

 

Carbed, MPFI, MPFI turbo, 5spd D/R, pushbutton, FWD, 4wd, 3at, 4EAT, EJ swapped and every combo under the sun.  I had em all ad different stages

 

I love them too and for what they are, they are great.  I still have an XT.  I probably woudl still drive my EJ swapped GL but it's now totaled and gone.  So I moved forward.  Still to a sub 21-century platform, but a better one.  Forrester which is basically a direct extension of the First EJ Legacy and Imp cars.

 

Keepin those old EA82 cars going just gets to be a battle.  There is always the next thing, Replacing wheel bearings, axles, tires all the friggin time from the wacky camber.  And the goofy auto belts in the 90's....uhg.  Then the engine oil leaks all the time.  Steering racks leak and are harder and harder to replace.

 

No to mention engine issues.  And you probably have to SMOG it?  I would keep it until it becomes problematic, and then get a Forrester or Outback.  I'd skip the first gen Legacies unless you find a real low mileage and/or well serviced gem.  Or scavenge one for it's 2.2 for a 98 Forrester.

 

But then we are back at the one parking spot issue. 

[Rust]

I commute 500 miles per week only in EA82 subarus.  I could switch to legacy/outback but In my opinion the first 3 generations are the real deal 4x4.  I am not a fan of AWD.

I have also noticed over the last 5 or so years i get a lot of questions/compliments on driving my GL or Loyale era gen 3 , that I used to only get in my Brat or Gen 1 or 2 car.

Its funny how a beater car is now is now transitioning to a classic car.  

[Subaru Scott]

 

You have zero idea why Nona, Dave or I desire to keep our cars. It has nothing to do with what you like or the technical spec of the vehicle. I for one don't set my watch by what you like or don't like.  Not every treasured artifact of life is a go fast, high revving cool boy car or something expensive or even rare. Maybe someone gave birth to their only child in that particular car, perhaps the last they saw their dying mother was in a trip with that particular car. Maybe the only happy times they had were in that particular car. That car may have been owned by their now dead only child or their deceased father owned the car and taught them to drive in it, You have ZERO idea of how a particular vehicle played a role in a person's life you just crap on it.  I checked and nowhere in the vehicle manual did it say one wasn't allowed to enjoy a vehicle unless it was sanctioned by a master mechanic. And ironically your practicality list speaks more toward one buying GM and not Subaru. That will go over real well with the fan boys.

 

That's like saying: "I love my wringer washer, and I don't mind spending several hours every week doing my laundry, cause that's how I remember the happy times with grammaw." or, "I have no use for an electric drill, my dads old brace and bit will get this hole drilled, eventually." 

 

No love for EA82? I am fine with that, really I am. But I really didn't ask and pardon me if I don't care if your do or do not like the EA82.  I personally don't like cilantro- do you care?   I could write a book on my gripes with that engine, truth be told. I have lived it. THere were some good things though too. For example, being a non-interference engine, how many newbie wrenchers got the timing belts wrong the first time and lived to tell abut it? According to wikipedia some of the systems of the EJ were prototyped on the EA82:

 

First gen EJs were non-interference. What else you got?

 

"Most of the technical advancements introduced to the EA82 were utilized in the next generation Subaru EJ engine, specifically, the SOHC valvetrain, and multi-point fuel injection."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_EA_engine

 

Overhead cams and MPFI have been around for decades before the EA82. EA81 cars had MPFI.

 

Thank god your input wasn't given when they stopped making parts for the B17 or B29 or we wouldn't be able to see any actually flying today. The Enola Gay would have been melted down for Chinese rims if you had your way. Oh and don't bother going to McMinnville and seeing either the Spruce Goose or the SR17, they stopped making parts for those as well. Scratch the trip to Hawaii to see Mighty Mo, no parts either.

 

Anyone with enough money and access to a good machine shop CAN make replacement parts for EA82s, Model T's or over-glorified war machines. If that makes you happy, go nuts! Most of us have antique or sentimental items that may be worth nothing to anyone else, and this has nothing at all to do with "taste." 

I'm talking about practicality for a daily driver, not a hobby car or family heirloom. This is the OPs ONLY car! That, quite frankly, makes me feel a little claustrophobic... 

If you were stranded on a desert island, and you could only have one car...

 

Nonaof4, dude, 26 years, don't you ever yearn to know what else is out there? If you had a friend who had a fat, lazy, cheating wife who was draining his bank account, wouldn't you tell him to ditch the b**ch? Or just let him be, because he still loves her and has fond memories of the past. OK, that might be a ridiculous example, but not as much as a trip to Hawaii to see Mighty Mo, whatever that is. 

 

I'm just trying to help you understand, because if you've never experienced the difference, you have no idea. And when you do, just like I did, you'll say, "What was I thinking?" 

 

If you're really attached to the car, if it fits your needs and you like the styling, (my daily is currently sporting an XT body)... just swap in an EJ. Maybe you're sick of hearing that, but THERE'S A REASON you keep hearing it.  

Those of you who maintain your own EA82s because you know the platform well and have parts stockpiled and have to spend very little for maintenance, I can appreciate that. I was once among you. But life is short, and time is money. And WHEN you come to that next major engine repair, you should really consider... I mean, theres a member on this forum right now trying to give away a running first gen Legacy!!! How much are you spending for gaskets?

[jsyme]

giving way a legacy?  do tell ... 

[MR_Loyale]

You're absolutely right. I said they don't make good daily drivers. Neither does the Enola Gay or the Spruce Goose.

 

You made my argument for me. Put them in a museum collection (that no one will visit). The support for driving them doesn't exist.

 

The sad thing is that my 86 Trans Am from the same era makes a great daily. I can get parts anywhere for it. Same with my 69 GMC truck.

 

The 56 Roadmaster on the other hand is very much like the EA82. I have to get parts from specialty Nailhead and Buick restoration shops. Thats why it goes to car shows, parades, and otherwise lives in a garage where it gets wiped down with diapers. I could drive it anytime I like - but that would be stupid. It's also a barge with a Dynaflow and other than attracting lots of attention it's pretty ho-hum to drive.

 

The EA82 would be fine without parts support except for the fact that the engine was, to Subaru standards, absolute junk. The B17 and B29 was, manifestly, not junk. The B36 on the other hand was complete garbage and none of those are flying. Because people would most likely be killed in the process. EA82's are kinda like the B36. Lots of people loved the idea, but the implementation was sh**ty and is best remembered from old news reels rather than experienced first hand.

 

GD

 

Just got done driving the car today, still runs, the earth is still on its axis, no one died. Never said anyone had to drive it daily for the rest of their lives.

 

You have contradicted yourself. You stated you love and drive for personal use the Buick Roadmaster and the turned around and compared it to your evil nemesis, the EA82. So which is it? Why haven't YOU melted down the Buick for Chinese rims???

 

I must say I am getting mixed messages on my Subaru experience base upon the feedback I am getting from the  "back side" of the dealership from you and Scott.

 

Let me get the straight. While I was walking into a dealership in 94 and the salesman was talking up the product, the farm trucks were supposedly carting off the junk parts out the back door because everything about it was crappy and failing and there wasn't a good thing to be said about it. So if all this is accurate, then Subaru is an unethical company that lies to customers to get them to buy junk.

 

That is a reason to get the one that comes after?

Edited July 9, 2017 by MR_Loyale

[GeneralDisorder]

ALL car companies are unethical and entirely concerned only with their profit margins. Ethics are not within the scope of corporations and free markets unless they are specifically demanded by the majority of relevant consumers. The corporation has the rights of an individual, but no body to imprison nor soul to save as the saying goes..... Corporations are not capable of ethics. Only capable of responding to consumer pressure, which may involved ethical perceptions on the part of a consumer or group of consumers. If ethical concerns may damage profit then they might be addressed indirectly.

 

There's no need to be a corporate fanboy. Subaru has made, and will continue to make lots of mistakes. I disagree with lots of their marketing decisions and some of their engineering. ALL car companies are this way. Except Ford.... and all the German car makers.... F**K those a**hat's. That is to say - I dont agree with ANY of their engineering. It's all 100% plastic garbage.

 

The EA82 had problems. Some of which were never solved. Some were but far too late.... The EJ25 had issues with head gaskets that Subaru never solved. We have solved them in the aftermarket. There is not, nor will there ever be, a solution to the EA82. Rather, it's being killed off (I believe on purpose) with lack of parts support. It says a lot that you can get an oil pump for a Justy, and for an EA81 - but not the EA82. And we have been told in no uncertain terms that they WILL NOT ever be available again. It is not a matter of them needing to do a production run. They will not be making them. Period.

 

The Buick is a classic. One that I personally was obliged to take on for my aging mother with cancer because she had always wanted one. It is an entirely impractical vehicle that serves the purpose of making her happy. No other. Its existence, other than to improve her quality of life, is just a pain in my neck. Unlike the EA82, though, it has actual real value being appraised somewhere north of $35k. So as to why it hasn't been melted down - well most of them already were and now 60 years later the car is worth more than scrap value. If I had owned it in the 70's it might have been..... If you are waiting for that to happen to the EA82's..... well stop driving it - its sure to be worth a lot more if it still runs and that's starting to look like a real challenge going forward. I'm not very hopeful of the prospects for run of the mill EA82's being worth a fart even in another 20 years.

 

GD

Edited July 9, 2017 by GeneralDisorder

[MR_Loyale]

 

 

That's like saying: "I love my wringer washer, and I don't mind spending several hours every week doing my laundry, cause that's how I remember the happy times with grammaw." or, "I have no use for an electric drill, my dads old brace and bit will get this hole drilled, eventually." 

 

Not really a good analogy. Both EA and EJ cars start, drive, accelerate, carry passengers. It is not like I have to hand crank the EA or something. You are arguing "Hey your old 1970's dishwasher really is outdated. Switch to a 1980's dishwasher like I have" Me I am saying "But if I needed the latest features I would get a 2017 dishwasher".

 

 

First gen EJs were non-interference. What else you got?

 

And how abundant are those engines? The vast majority of EJ are interference engines and they have timing belts just like EA82. I guess the magical J makes customers remember to do the timing belts on time eh?

 

 

 

 

Overhead cams and MPFI have been around for decades before the EA82. EA81 cars had MPFI.

 

Take it up with wiki.  They source their articles so I guess you will need to go argue with them. EA81 also had gear driven timing but they didn't decide to keep that. Can you tell us why?

 

 

Anyone with enough money and access to a good machine shop CAN make replacement parts for EA82s, Model T's or over-glorified war machines. If that makes you happy, go nuts! Most of us have antique or sentimental items that may be worth nothing to anyone else, and this has nothing at all to do with "taste." 

I'm talking about practicality for a daily driver, not a hobby car or family heirloom. This is the OPs ONLY car! That, quite frankly, makes me feel a little claustrophobic... 

If you were stranded on a desert island, and you could only have one car...

 

I believe the message has been clear to her on that count.  It will probably eat her alive financially going forward  if things break and she has to pay someone to keep fixing it.  On the other hand, if she is ready to drive it until it dies and let it go, that is another option. As long as she goes in with eyes wide open, why should it bother you so much?

 

 

Nonaof4, dude, 26 years, don't you ever yearn to know what else is out there? If you had a friend who had a fat, lazy, cheating wife who was draining his bank account, wouldn't you tell him to ditch the b**ch? Or just let him be, because he still loves her and has fond memories of the past.

 

I would mind my own damn business when it comes to other people and their relationships. But I am not blind to the newest things, that is why I am considering the F engine platform. Why would I want to jump to something that is closer to the fate of parts unavailability when I can go current state? Are you saying the EJ is better than the F? Can you guarantee that the EJ won't suffer the same fate as the EA82 in regards to parts?

 

OK, that might be a ridiculous example, but not as much as a trip to Hawaii to see Mighty Mo, whatever that is. 

 

Jesus Christ, you seriously do not know about the Battleship Missouri, upon which the Japanese signed the documents of surrender for WORLD WAR II?

After the condom cucumber demo they never taught US history? If you tell me you are a millennial or stoner I will forgive you, be disgusted but forgive you. 

 

I'm just trying to help you understand, because if you've never experienced the difference, you have no idea. And when you do, just like I did, you'll say, "What was I thinking?" 

 

While you are trying to help me experience, will you infuse my brain with the treasured memories of the people, places and things I did in my Loyale? Because when I took my dad for that first crank test drive in 2006 after I did my first timing belt, when he was sure I had toasted the motor (you know because timing belts are something only a 50 trillion year experienced wrencher grease monkey could ever do) , you will get his reaction for me in an EJ? Kind of hard to do now, because he died in 2015 at the age of 95.

 

Seriously if it is about spec and speed -  sex and not need, I think the inner child in me wins with a C7 Z06. According GD I will be virtually guaranteed parts will always be available. And BTW I think he would be right especially with the aftermarket on the vettes.

 

If you're really attached to the car, if it fits your needs and you like the styling, (my daily is currently sporting an XT body)... just swap in an EJ. Maybe you're sick of hearing that, but THERE'S A REASON you keep hearing it.  

 

And everyone who says that does their own work.  I doubt there are many shops even willing to consider working on an  intergenerational swapped vehicle let alone do so in a budget minded manner. It is easy for you because you do your own work. I agree it is a wonderful feat, I even considered attempting it myself.  But imagine getting stranded far away form home and the only shop around refuses to work on it because they cannot properly trace the wiring harness or it doesn't match their book. God help the poor fellow troubleshooting the OBD codes. Or they are crooks and DO decide to bill hours against it knowing it will fund their trip to Hawaii because they actually know their US History.

 

Those of you who maintain your own EA82s because you know the platform well and have parts stockpiled and have to spend very little for maintenance, I can appreciate that. I was once among you. But life is short, and time is money. And WHEN you come to that next major engine repair, you should really consider... I mean, theres a member on this forum right now trying to give away a running first gen Legacy!!! How much are you spending for gaskets?

 

I haven't done any gaskets since 2014. Not sure for anyone else. I am sorry we haven't had bad experiences with the EA82 like you did. For me it isn't about the specs. I started maintaining my own car after bad experiences with incompetent "master mechanics". My thought process was that I can screw it up at a much less shop rate (I charge myself a $0/hr shop rate, family discount rate to myself). I have been keeping it running ever since.

 

 

 

 

[GeneralDisorder]

This whole EJ timing belt "interference" argument is baseless. They just simply don't break. In 20 years of wrenching on these engines I have seen it maybe a couple dozen times in total. It's super rare and there's usually ample warning like serious idler bearing noises, water pump leakage, or tensioner knocking, etc. A sheared off belt with zero warning is basically unheard of. Even when NOT changed at the required interval they rarely fail with less than 175% to 200% of rated life.

 

GD

[MR_Loyale]

ALL car companies are unethical and entirely concerned only with their profit margins. Ethics are not within the scope of corporations and free markets unless they are specifically demanded by the majority of relevant consumers. The corporation has the rights of an individual, but no body to imprison nor soul to save as the saying goes.....

 

The EA82 had problems. Some of which were never solved. Some were but far too late.... The EJ25 had issues with head gaskets that Subaru never solved. We have solved them in the aftermarket. There is not, nor will there ever be, a solution to the EA82. Rather, it's being killed off (I believe on purpose) with lack of parts support. It says a lot that you can get an oil pump for a Justy, and for an EA81 - but not the EA82. And we have been told in no uncertain terms that they WILL NOT ever be available again. It is not a matter of them needing to do a production run. They will not be making them. Period.

 

The Buick is a classic. One that I personally was obliged to take on for my aging mother with cancer because she had always wanted one. It is an entirely impractical vehicle that serves the purpose of making her happy. No other. Its existence, other than to improve her quality of life, is just a pain in my neck. Unlike the EA82, though, it has actual real value being appraised somewhere north of $35k. So as to why it hasn't been melted down - well most of them already were and now 60 years later the car is worth more than scrap value. If I had owned it in the 70's it might have been..... If you are waiting for that to happen to the EA82's..... well stop driving it - its sure to be worth a lot more if it still runs and that's starting to look like a real challenge going forward. I'm not very hopeful of the prospects for run of the mill EA82's being worth a fart even in another 20 years.

 

GD

 

Um so what is the incentive for me to not jump ship to another brand if Subaru is just as unethical as the rest? Subaru seems to make ethics a particular strong part of their marketing. Are you saying they lie?

 

As far as unsolved problems, I would love to hear the list for my own benefit going forward to watch out for. I sincerely believe you have seen what CAN go wrong and am happy to listen to you state your experience. It would be good historical information if you don't mind.

 

You have already stated they quit making oil pumps for the EA82. If my oil pump is still pumping then I still got use left in it. Since I put a brand new one from the dealer in 2014 I figure I got a few years left with that part.

 

I am unconcerned how anyone else values my cars I drive, my clothes, my house or my life. If I lived by what others thought were valuable, I think there are brands other than Subaru that come to mind because in the wider world of cars, they aren't the top of the heap in appraised value if that is the sole measure.

 

At one time Edsels were considered junk and people got rid of them. Today they'd bring a handsome price. As for my EA82, it is in pretty good condition and after 24 years it has less that 190K on it. I think I will be fine going forward. I would be surprised if 30 years from now, it was worth a significant amount. I would chuckle. But rest assured I am not counting it making a cool million on antiques road show in the future. "Sir you have a national treasure - 4.5 million"

I DO have retirement planning in place.

Edited July 9, 2017 by MR_Loyale

[MR_Loyale]

Those are decomissioned planes that the military no longer flies

 

you are reinforcing the argument that the EA82 belongs in museums.

 

Not just decommissioned planes. The Enola Gay dropped the atomic bomb on Japan, the only time in human history such a weapon has ever been used. If an EA82 belongs in a museum, so what? I have to stop driving mine?

[MR_Loyale]

This whole EJ timing belt "interference" argument is baseless. They just simply don't break. In 20 years of wrenching on these engines I have seen it maybe a couple dozen times in total. It's super rare and there's usually ample warning like serious idler bearing noises, water pump leakage, or tensioner knocking, etc. A sheared off belt with zero warning is basically unheard of. Even when NOT changed at the required interval they rarely fail with less than 175% to 200% of rated life.

 

GD

 

The argument was originally that EA82 customers forgot to do the timing belt and they broke and had to be towed in. Magically, the change from "A" to "J" makes the customer self aware.

 

Now we have the argument of the unicorn timing belt that never breaks. Please tell that to this guy:

 

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=616237

 

 

Or this one:

 

https://repairpal.com/does-a-broken-timing-belt-always-destroy-the-engine-818

 

I can google these all day long, really I can.

 

Yeah, they never break, because if they did, each and every single one would have been brought to you personally? Since you have not seen any, they do not exist. Now we have the magical timing belt too. The magic of the letter J never cease to amaze me. The infinite lasting timing belt. I think they had those on the Titanic, next to the unsinkable hulls.

 

Please tell us, just theoretically of course, what happens if a timing belt does break on an interference engine? Just curious.

[MR_Loyale]

Honestly folks, I am getting dead horse beating fatigue here. Just so you know, though I will always argue passionately I do not hold any animosity. Life is just too damn short for that.

 

I am happy to keep company with the winnowed heard still driving their EA82 cars. It honestly brings me joy to drive it. I don't need booze, hard liquor or weed. Yes, we are a crazy bunch, but please the only request is that you only mock us out of earshot and out of sight.

[BEECHBM69]

This is thoroughly entertaining, but you guys have way too much time on your hands.........  

 

Dan

[GeneralDisorder]

I've seen them break. It does happen. But it's very rare compared to EA's and in most cases there are circumstances - poor quality parts, or obvious signs of distress from a bearing, etc. Anything can be broken if you try hard enough.

 

If you break a belt on an interference EJ, you bend all the intake valves. That's it. Intake vales are about $8 each, so $128 plus a head gasket job. I have never seen any other significant damage from it.

 

Sure you can find examples of it. Doesn't make it common. I see a dozen of these engines a day or more. They don't just do that without warning the way the EA82 does.

 

The EA82 belts are lucky to go 60k.

 

I'm sure we can get a list of the EA82 design flaws going but it's kinda pointless.

 

Try an EJ. You will like it.

 

The FA/FB engines are turning out to be great also. The early ones had ring issues but can be corrected. Other than being open deck so far, they appear capable of quite a bit of power. More in line with what the old EVO engine could do. Better bore x stroke ratios, and twin scroll turbo's placed right off the heads.... looks like excellent potential.

 

GD

[Gloyale]

So I am looking for opinions from fellow subi owners.

 

A 1991 Loyale wagon owns me and has since I drove it off the lot in 1991. In those 26 years I have put 2 engines, due to no fault of hers.

 

 

If you had bought a Legacy in 91, you would likely never have had to replace the engine, let alone twice.

 

Think about that.  how much has the car cost you over the years vs.  What an EJ22 vehicle would have. Probably alot more than the difference in price between the 2 models new.

[Gloyale]

The argument was originally that EA82 customers forgot to do the timing belt and they broke and had to be towed in. Magically, the change from "A" to "J" makes the customer self aware.

 

It's not the letter, it's the change in design to a stronger belt and idler setup.

 

EA82 belts break regularly.  For sometimes no reason.  ...they are not tensioned well (no spring action after clamped???) and they are tiny and weak.  And EA82 oil pumps suck air and cause lash adjuster tick.  They leak, everywhere.  They are great for what they are, but far inferior in design to the EJ platform.  

 

GD is correct that any quality, EJ belt will not break it's own.  Not anywhere within %150 of it's lifespan.  It is usually an idler, or the water pump failing that seizes or drags enough to break the belt.

 

EJ22 will be supported for many many years to come.  Oil pumps are shared compatible up to late 2000's 

 

EA82s are getting hard to find parts for already, with some things already out of production seemingly for good.

[el_freddo]

I am unconcerned how anyone else values my cars I drive, my clothes, my house or my life. If I lived by what others thought were valuable, I think there are brands other than Subaru that come to mind because in the wider world of cars, they aren't the top of the heap in appraised value if that is the sole measure.

 

Sorry mate, if that's the case why all the arguing?

 

I love my L series too. I've now owned it for about 14 years and have put on just over 200,000km with lots of hard offroading. When I first got it I had to rebuild the engine. I was stoked with it. Then the radiator gave up and killed that engine. I dropped another one in but it was never the same.

 

Now I've got an EJ22 and AWD.  I'll never look back at the EA82.  If I ever did another L series I'd seriously consider dropping an EA81 in it's place.

 

I did just under 100k km on the two EA82 engines and have thus far done about 120k km on the same EJ22.  It's copped lots of abuse from offroading including a session where I got the coolant up to 120*C for several minutes at high revs through soft sand.  Later I froze the block due to incorrect coolant for alpine living :/  It kept going for many years after this without issue.

 

If you've ever spent any time working on these engines you'll know all their flaws. I recommend not taking them to the mechanic as you'll spend more time on labour due to poor engine design. EG: cam boxes. If you don't know what they are, google them, or better yet, buy a workshop manual and have a go at pulling them. Not matter what you do they'll always leak after a few 1000km/miles.

 

The EA82 was born due to the overhead cam marketing of the 80's.  The EA81 was in development for fuel injection for the L series and I dare say that the EJ series engine was already in it's infancy in some form or another.

 

Now I'm not saying that it's impossible to keep your L series running in it's stock form, but if you're wanting to do this, you really need to learn how to look after it yourself to keep the cost down.  You'll also need to know where to get parts from and exactly what parts you'll need - many parts places will get MY and L series parts mixed up, sometimes you might even get a liberty part.  I've had tie rod ends, ball joints and brake pads from a liberty at different times, and drive shafts from an MY don't fit either.  You will need to know your parts and at times be patient with getting the right parts in.

 

I'm going to find it hard to give up my L series, I'm not done with her yet either, but I've got space and the resources to keep her going - and if I can't get a part anymore I'll try and swap it for something EJ

 

All the best with it.  No need to argue about a good boat anchor, they do go ok for what they are when they're not busy leaking oil or doing the "lifter tick of death" - another reason why I got rid of my EA82!

 

Cheers

 

Bennie

Edited July 9, 2017 by el_freddo

[MR_Loyale]

Sorry mate, if that's the case why all the arguing?

 

I love my L series too. I've now owned it for about 14 years and have put on just over 200,000km with lots of hard offroading. When I first got it I had to rebuild the engine. I was stoked with it. Then the radiator gave up and killed that engine. I dropped another one in but it was never the same.

 

Now I've got an EJ22 and AWD.  I'll never look back at the EA82.  If I ever did another L series I'd seriously consider dropping an EA81 in it's place.

 

I did just under 100k km on the two EA82 engines and have thus far done about 120k km on the same EJ22.  It's copped lots of abuse from offroading including a session where I got the coolant up to 120*C for several minutes at high revs through soft sand.  Later I froze the block due to incorrect coolant for alpine living :/  It kept going for many years after this without issue.

 

If you've ever spent any time working on these engines you'll know all their flaws. I recommend not taking them to the mechanic as you'll spend more time on labour due to poor engine design. EG: cam boxes. If you don't know what they are, google them, or better yet, buy a workshop manual and have a go at pulling them. Not matter what you do they'll always leak after a few 1000km/miles.

 

The EA82 was born due to the overhead cam marketing of the 80's.  The EA81 was in development for fuel injection for the L series and I dare say that the EJ series engine was already in it's infancy in some form or another.

 

Now I'm not saying that it's impossible to keep your L series running in it's stock form, but if you're wanting to do this, you really need to learn how to look after it yourself to keep the cost down.  You'll also need to know where to get parts from and exactly what parts you'll need - many parts places will get MY and L series parts mixed up, sometimes you might even get a liberty part.  I've had tie rod ends, ball joints and brake pads from a liberty at different times, and drive shafts from an MY don't fit either.  You will need to know your parts and at times be patient with getting the right parts in.

 

I'm going to find it hard to give up my L series, I'm not done with her yet either, but I've got space and the resources to keep her going - and if I can't get a part anymore I'll try and swap it for something EJ

 

All the best with it.  No need to argue about a good boat anchor, they do go ok for what they are when they're not busy leaking oil or doing the "lifter tick of death" - another reason why I got rid of my EA82!

 

Cheers

 

Bennie

 

Thanks for the best wishes. Don't worry mate, I think I got the wrenching and maintaining thing handled.

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/147673-uno-my-first/

[Subaru Scott]

"Let me get the straight. While I was walking into a dealership in 94 and the salesman was talking up the product, the farm trucks were supposedly carting off the junk parts out the back door because everything about it was crappy and failing and there wasn't a good thing to be said about it. So if all this is accurate, then Subaru is an unethical company that lies to customers to get them to buy junk."

 

WHAAAT? A car salesman? LIED to you??  Yes, Virginia, because they are paid only on commission. Same goes for the technicians, which is why they always seem to "find" something wrong with your car when you stop in for an oil change. That's why I left the dealerships, I have a conscience. 

 

 

"Jesus Christ, you seriously do not know about the Battleship Missouri, upon which the Japanese signed the documents of surrender for WORLD WAR II? 

After the condom cucumber demo they never taught US history? If you tell me you are a millennial or stoner I will forgive you, be disgusted but forgive you. "

 

Oh gosh, if I start being a stoner, will you forgive me?

I have many, many, many hobbies, one of which is not keeping up with nicknames of 70 year old war machines.

 

I do find it incredibly ironic that a guy bashing me for WW2 trivia has been driving a leaky, underpowered, Japanese econobox for the last 23 years, that he bought new!