91 Loyale....To keep til death do us part

[GeneralDisorder]

I do find it incredibly ironic that a guy bashing me for WW2 trivia has been driving a leaky, underpowered, Japanese econobox for the last 23 years, that he bought new!

A bit ironic, for sure.

 

I too am a big war machine buff. I was in the Army though and hey - I like all machines. Having that broad knowledge of machines enables me to see when one is over designed and under engineered - as is the case for the marketing fluffball known as the EA82. It served only to provide the aging EA81 with a marketing update - something they could show off to the press and put "New for 1985!" in their advertisements.

 

At it's core, it is an EA81 with a bunch of crudely designed bits and bobs tacked on for the sake of a "SOHC!" marketing buzzword circa 1980's. Sounded impressive back then.

 

GD

[Subaru Scott]

giving way a legacy?  do tell ... 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/163470-super-cheap-93-legacy-wagon/

[ferp420]

I still love my ea82 i dont have the time to work on it right now or i would still be daily driving it i riped the suspention mounts off and only redid one side lol  i also have a ej2.2 and a ej2.5d and a ej2.55 im in the middle of crank up rebuilds on both a ea82 and a ej2.2 there both great engines i hate the 2.5d i cant wait to tourture the outback to death lol but it runs great only 7 engines in the biesatch but hay the ea82 is old and needs more work but its like a old dog just keeps on truckin when all my ej powered rigs broke down the old loyale pulled 150 mile a day duty with fling colors i do things to that car and engine i would never do to any other car/engine simply because there so simple and seeing as how there dead theres nothing to lose and i have a big parts stash so that helps

Edited July 11, 2017 by ferp420

[MR_Loyale]

 

"Let me get the straight. While I was walking into a dealership in 94 and the salesman was talking up the product, the farm trucks were supposedly carting off the junk parts out the back door because everything about it was crappy and failing and there wasn't a good thing to be said about it. So if all this is accurate, then Subaru is an unethical company that lies to customers to get them to buy junk."

 

WHAAAT? A car salesman? LIED to you??  Yes, Virginia, because they are paid only on commission. Same goes for the technicians, which is why they always seem to "find" something wrong with your car when you stop in for an oil change. That's why I left the dealerships, I have a conscience. 

 

 

"Jesus Christ, you seriously do not know about the Battleship Missouri, upon which the Japanese signed the documents of surrender for WORLD WAR II? 

After the condom cucumber demo they never taught US history? If you tell me you are a millennial or stoner I will forgive you, be disgusted but forgive you. "

 

Oh gosh, if I start being a stoner, will you forgive me?

I have many, many, many hobbies, one of which is not keeping up with nicknames of 70 year old war machines.

 

I do find it incredibly ironic that a guy bashing me for WW2 trivia has been driving a leaky, underpowered, Japanese econobox for the last 23 years, that he bought new!

 

At this point I doubt it would make any difference if you became a stoner or not. Same result.

 

Was your google broken or you were too lazy to look it up?  I sure hope your ability to lookup electrical wiring construction codes is better than your ability to google.

 

Any mockery of working on under powered cars is ironic considering in your profile you claim to have been "wrenching on Subarus since 1979". What was that one, a Subaru 360? A real powerhouse was it? Google it if you don't know which one I am talking about.

Edited July 11, 2017 by MR_Loyale

[rdweninger]

Well Crap !     Now I have to sell all my ea82s.

  Been off the forum for a while ... a lot happens when you're on vacation !

  You guys crack me UP.

[XHighOctanex]

This post is a roller coaster from start to finish, only bit I'm gonna add it is that in my experience the ej is much better (I didn't REALLY start having problems with my ea until I lifted and tortured my car though). The ea seems to want to break and never does, I've snapped one belt, and blown one head gasket. Since the reseal with the permatorque headgasket kit I've had the car reach 250 degrees and just driven on because who cares if it blows. Still hasn't yet, doesn't even sip coolant or fail block or pressure tests. I have seen ej belts snap without warning a few times (at least that's what we're told when the car gets towed in), but the ej is and forever will be a massive upgrade from an ea82. So really you're both not wrong.

[robm]

I prefer the EA82 , but not necessarily for the engine.  It is the entire package.  The Loyale wagon is the original CUV.  It is tough, simple and practical.

 

The engine is OK, it may be a flaky design kludge, but at least it is easy to work on.  It is not interference, and its head gaskets are not maintenance items. 

It is lighter than the EJ cars.   It gets much better gas mileage than the EJ platform of the same era, which are the ones with the best reliability. 

I like the hillholder,

I like the huge amount of room it has for people and/or cargo.

I like being able to buy front wheel bearings at the local bearing house. 

I like being able to install the bearings with a hammer and punch.

I like the very tight turning circle.

I like the huge "greenhouse" it has.  This car is so easy to see out of. 

I like its huge ground clearance,

I like the factory steel sump guard.

I like the oil filter being screwed on the side, so you don't get covered in oil removing it, or need an extra elbow to get to it. 

I like the 4WD.  Torque bind is a given, not an indication of a problem, and running mismatched tires won't hurt anything, if you don't use the 4WD button in the wrong place . 

I like the "crude" SPFI system, that lets you release the clutch without adding any gas.  Just drive away on idle, let the ECU keep the engine running.  Very easy on the clutch.

I like the hand brake that acts on the front wheels.  Imagine, a hand brake that can actually stop the car!

I like the huge amount of internal hidden storage: the smuggler's box, the side pockets, and the side flaps that let you store stuff in the rear fender wells.

I like the vestigial rain gutter, that lets me use a real roof rack, that can actually carry something heavy.

I like being able to replace the spark plugs easily.

Everything about it is just simpler, lighter, easier and pleasanter to work on. 

[XHighOctanex]

I prefer the EA82 , but not necessarily for the engine. It is the entire package. The Loyale wagon is the original CUV. It is tough, simple and practical.

 

The engine is OK, it may be a flaky design kludge, but at least it is easy to work on. It is not interference, and its head gaskets are not maintenance items.

It is lighter than the EJ cars. It gets much better gas mileage than the EJ platform of the same era, which are the ones with the best reliability.

I like the hillholder,

I like the huge amount of room it has for people and/or cargo.

I like being able to buy front wheel bearings at the local bearing house.

I like being able to install the bearings with a hammer and punch.

I like the very tight turning circle.

I like the huge "greenhouse" it has. This car is so easy to see out of.

I like its huge ground clearance,

I like the factory steel sump guard.

I like the oil filter being screwed on the side, so you don't get covered in oil removing it, or need an extra elbow to get to it.

I like the 4WD. Torque bind is a given, not an indication of a problem, and running mismatched tires won't hurt anything, if you don't use the 4WD button in the wrong place .

I like the "crude" SPFI system, that lets you release the clutch without adding any gas. Just drive away on idle, let the ECU keep the engine running. Very easy on the clutch.

I like the hand brake that acts on the front wheels. Imagine, a hand brake that can actually stop the car!

I like the huge amount of internal hidden storage: the smuggler's box, the side pockets, and the side flaps that let you store stuff in the rear fender wells.

I like the vestigial rain gutter, that lets me use a real roof rack, that can actually carry something heavy.

I like being able to replace the spark plugs easily.

Everything about it is just simpler, lighter, easier and pleasanter to work on.

I love this, honestly the perfect subaru imho would be a hybrid. The feeling and ease of owning the ea but with mainly just the power of the ej series engines, but being able to get everything to rebuild an entire motor would be nice too. And better axles lol

[GeneralDisorder]

I prefer the EA82 , but not necessarily for the engine. It is the entire package. The Loyale wagon is the original CUV. It is tough, simple and practical.

The engine is OK, it may be a flaky design kludge, but at least it is easy to work on. It is not interference, and its head gaskets are not maintenance items.

It is lighter than the EJ cars. It gets much better gas mileage than the EJ platform of the same era, which are the ones with the best reliability.

That simply isn't true. They both get about 30 give or take. Depending on quite a few factors not the least of which is how they are driven.

I like the hillholder,

I like the huge amount of room it has for people and/or cargo.

Legacy have the HH and the Legacy is larger inside.

I like being able to buy front wheel bearings at the local bearing house.

I like being able to install the bearings with a hammer and punch.

Ridiculous, but ok. Legacy bearing typically last twice as long. They cost about $25 from any parts store, and can be installed with a screw press kit that's about $100 from the usual Chinese suspects.

I like the very tight turning circle.

Learn to drive.

I like the huge "greenhouse" it has. This car is so easy to see out of.

I've never had a problem. Usually when people talk about blind spots, etc it's because they have no clue how to set their mirrors. Usually they all have the same issue - adjusting the side mirrors so they can see the side of their own car. If you adjust them instead for only slight overlap with the central rearview mirrow you will find that these claimed blind spots disappear.

I like its huge ground clearance

No it doesn't. Not any more than a Legacy. A set of outback struts and springs is a bolt on for the Legacy. +3". Then it REALLY doesn't match up.

 

The forum software isn't letting me do more quotes.... what a crock. But yeah I have answers for all your points.

 

GD

Edited July 19, 2017 by GeneralDisorder

[BEECHBM69]

That simply isn't true. They both get about 30 give or take. Depending on quite a few factors not the least of which is how they are driven.  

 

 

Legacy have the HH and the Legacy is larger inside.

 

 

Ridiculous, but ok. Legacy bearing typically last twice as long. They cost about $25 from any parts store, and can be installed with a screw press kit that's about $100 from the usual Chinese suspects. 

 

 

Learn to drive. 

 

 

I've never had a problem. Usually when people talk about blind spots, etc it's because they have no clue how to set their mirrors. Usually they all have the same issue - adjusting the side mirrors so they can see the side of their own car. If you adjust them instead for only slight overlap with the central rearview mirrow you will find that these claimed blind spots disappear.

 

 

No it doesn't. Not any more than a Legacy. A set of outback struts and springs is a bolt on for the Legacy. +3". Then it REALLY doesn't match up. 

Dude......... all due respect, but why do you care what we like?

 

You are without question one of the resident experts, but why does it bother you so much that we like these cars and are preserving them for our own enjoyment and satisfaction? What am I missing? 

 

Dan

[Subaru Scott]

It's not about what we like vs. what you like.

 

The Point Is:

 

There are members in this thread that by their own admission, have never owned an EJ car, and yet, they keep touting the superiority of EA82s.

 

That's like saying, "I love Bud Light, it's the best! Ive never tried a Sam Adams, but it couldn't possibly be better."

 

Or going to a barbecue and eating hot dogs because the bratwurst look "too complicated," 

 

It's not about being "right," it's about helping those who don't know any better because you've never tried. 

 

I used to love EA82s too. But the day I drove my first Legacy home, I GAVE AWAY my 3 Loyales and a whole barn full of EA82 engines, transmissions, etc.

 

YES, they are THAT much better! 

[GeneralDisorder]

If you love them for no good reason and are ok with it.... that's fine.

 

But when you try to justify it by claiming they are somehow qualitatively better cars.... well that's just ignorant.

 

Logic, science, and a large body of empirical evidence and experience proves that position false.

 

My problem isn't with loving something for no good reason you can explain - my problem is the ridiculous attempts at logical justification. Don't abuse reality and science like that. It gives people with even less experience the wrong idea.

 

GD

[XHighOctanex]

If you love them for no good reason and are ok with it.... that's fine.

 

But when you try to justify it by claiming they are somehow qualitatively better cars.... well that's just ignorant.

 

Logic, science, and a large body of empirical evidence and experience proves that position false.

 

My problem isn't with loving something for no good reason you can explain - my problem is the ridiculous attempts at logical justification. Don't abuse reality and science like that. It gives people with even less experience the wrong idea.

 

GD

I like true dual range 4wd ????

[BEECHBM69]

It's not about what we like vs. what you like.

 

The Point Is:

 

There are members in this thread that by their own admission, have never owned an EJ car, and yet, they keep touting the superiority of EA82s.

 

That's like saying, "I love Bud Light, it's the best! Ive never tried a Sam Adams, but it couldn't possibly be better."

 

Or going to a barbecue and eating hot dogs because the bratwurst look "too complicated," 

 

It's not about being "right," it's about helping those who don't know any better because you've never tried. 

 

I used to love EA82s too. But the day I drove my first Legacy home, I GAVE AWAY my 3 Loyales and a whole barn full of EA82 engines, transmissions, etc.

 

YES, they are THAT much better! 

 

So you drove a Legacy and liked it. I drove one and hated it. I found it to be a lumbering, uninspiring car to drive. 

 

I wish I could have been the benefactor of your generosity though........   

 

Dan

[Subaru Scott]

I have a true EJ dual-range JDM trans in my daily.  Hard to find, but they're out there.

[Subaru Scott]

So you drove a Legacy and liked it. I drove one and hated it. I found it to be a lumbering, uninspiring car to drive. 

 

Sounds like the tires were low.

 

I wish I could have been the benefactor of your generosity though........   

 

Dan

 

If you had been standing in my driveway on that day, they would have been yours!

[GeneralDisorder]

I like true dual range 4wd

Only till you get out-wheeled despite the low range by an Automatic. You see, the torque converter (it's right there in the name) IS a low range. And the 4EAT is far smarter and better at torque split. The dual range sounds like a great idea till you realize the gearing sucks for larger tires, and with the EJ power and automatic you don't need any low range.

 

GD

[GeneralDisorder]

So you drove a Legacy and liked it. I drove one and hated it. I found it to be a lumbering, uninspiring car to drive. 

 

I wish I could have been the benefactor of your generosity though........   

 

Dan

Maybe you should drive more than one. Yes the basic ones were quite uninspiring. But there are simple upgrades that can fix that easily. My 91 Legacy SS is quite fun to drive with Impreza suspension which is a bolt on.

 

GD

[BEECHBM69]

Maybe you should drive more than one. Yes the basic ones were quite uninspiring. But there are simple upgrades that can fix that easily. My 91 Legacy SS is quite fun to drive with Impreza suspension which is a bolt on.

 

GD

 

I'm sure the sample I had (ex gf's car) was less than representative. Though to be fair, I test drove a 2006 Outback, and found it to have that same "heavy" feeling. (Ex's was a 2000ish) I suspect I would enjoy an Impreza much better than it's bigger brother, though I have yet to drive one. 

 

I do understand your earlier point though. Like it if I want, but don't tell you it's logical...... 

 

Dan

[XHighOctanex]

Only till you get out-wheeled despite the low range by an Automatic. You see, the torque converter (it's right there in the name) IS a low range. And the 4EAT is far smarter and better at torque split. The dual range sounds like a great idea till you realize the gearing sucks for larger tires, and with the EJ power and automatic you don't need any low range.

 

GD

That's where I have to disagree, I have never had an issue with gearing and my 27s. I've never fallen behind an auto ej car or any car because of my trans, not having the power in the ea yes, but trans, no. Also I've seen crosstreks and outbacks blow axles and be stuck, whereas when I blow an axle I just go into 4hi and drive home or to the nearest parking lot to fix it. True 4wd will always be superior to awd, whether it's cvt, auto, stick, or whatever. But the ea does lack the power to do some stuff that the lorange makes you want to do I'll give you that. But even then this car takes hills offroad in 1st/lo like they're butter.

[GeneralDisorder]

You can easily lock the 4EAT into 4WD. It takes a little planning ahead by adding a circuit to control voltage to the duty-c solenoid. Then you have true 4WD.

 

Trust me - a properly equipped lifted Forester automatic will do everything your D/R will do and then some. And probably more comfortably also.

 

Neither will wheel like my t-case lifted EA81 hatch but honestly that's not a Subaru anymore. It's got 20 forward gears...

 

GD

[XHighOctanex]

You can easily lock the 4EAT into 4WD. It takes a little planning ahead by adding a circuit to control voltage to the duty-c solenoid. Then you have true 4WD.

 

Trust me - a properly equipped lifted Forester automatic will do everything your D/R will do and then some. And probably more comfortably also.

 

Neither will wheel like my t-case lifted EA81 hatch but honestly that's not a Subaru anymore. It's got 20 forward gears...

 

GD

I bet it would, comfort maybe, my car is pretty comfortable but I do come from owning trucks that were very uncomfortable off road before this, so that could just be preference. As of now driving my dad's outback and driving my ea I don't really feel much of a difference on the road, I've never wheeled his car. As to the locking the 4EAT in 4wd I'm sure it would, but that leaves more electronics into the equation, more things to go wrong and more to break. Not to mention when I finish the 2.5 swap unless the forester is an xt he doesn't have a power advantage, and then you've got 2 cars with equal horsepower but one doesn't have electronics controlling the 4wd and it has a Lorange. I stick by an ej backed by a dual range as the best setup OUTSIDE of going to tcases and building a crawler Edited July 20, 2017 by XHighOctanex

[GeneralDisorder]

The EJ engine has electronics too.... far more than the 4EAT.

 

But really it's not "electronics" to do the circuit mod. You just

cut the voltage to the lockup clutch duty solenoid so it applies full line pressure to the transfer clutch pack. It's literally cut one wire and put either end on a switch. That's all it is.

 

Being as you haven't done it yet - I'll spoil the ending a bit for you. The EJ25 will be lots of fun for a disturbingly short time..... You will decide to rethink the entire EA chassis when you get to about D/R transmission number 3 or 4.... Then you will most likely buy a Forester 5 speed in total frustration of the D/R weakness, axle failures, and lack of chassis stiffness.... Only after you blow a few clutches and some transfer housings, center diffs, etc will you finally see the light and get a 4 speed auto with the EJ25 single cam....

 

Don't say you weren't foretold of the future.

 

GD

Edited July 20, 2017 by GeneralDisorder

[XHighOctanex]

The EJ engine has electronics too.... far more than the 4EAT.

 

But really it's not "electronics" to do the circuit mod. You just

cut the voltage to the lockup clutch duty solenoid so it applies full line pressure to the transfer clutch pack. It's literally cut one wire and put either end on a switch. That's all it is.

 

Being as you haven't done it yet - I'll spoil the ending a bit for you. The EJ25 will be lots of fun for a disturbingly short time..... You will decide to rethink the entire EA chassis when you get to about D/R transmission number 3 or 4.... Then you will most likely buy a Forester 5 speed in total frustration of the D/R weakness, axle failures, and lack of chassis stiffness.... Only after you blow a few clutches and some transfer housings, center diffs, etc will you finally see the light and get a 4 speed auto with the EJ25 single cam....

 

Don't say you weren't foretold of the future.

 

GD

I don't worry about too much power, I'm only doing a stock 2.5 sohc, I know the car wasn't built for power but I don't see 160hp killing the trans, especially when I doubt I'll ever beat on that car more than the occasional brap to get up a hill or over a small rock

[GeneralDisorder]

It does depend on how you drive it. But I have a friend that put a stock EJ22 in his lifted EA82 chassis and went through about 4 transmissions. It's a LOT more power than the EA82. Like virtually double if you go to the EJ25.

 

Saying you won't use the power is like saying you won't eat more than one Dorito. Never. Happened.

 

The high comp EJ25 that went into the rally brat had so much power it permanently distorted the unibody and the doors didn't close right anymore. Had to 8 point cage the whole thing. It wasnt even really driveable with the D/R. We put an AWD trans in it before the D/R gave out. It would chirp ALL 4 tires going into 3rd.... The EA bodies are very light and the torque of the EJ is a lot - they just aren't stiff.

 

GD

Edited July 20, 2017 by GeneralDisorder