Proper front cat for 1997 Legacy 2.2

[Mikevan10]

My 1997 Legacy Brighton is apparently CA emissions compliant (Subaru dealer told me that based on the VIN).  The rear flange on the front cat is shot so I have an exhaust leak there.  I am looking at the cats on Rock Auto and it is not clear which one I should buy.  The cats on the Rock website that are claimed to be C.A.R.B. compliant refers to "Engine Family VFJ2.2VJG2EK" for some of the cats.  But my engine is Engine Type EJ22ESWCWL.  Can anyone help unravel this?

 

Thanks

Mike V.

[czny]

https://www.magnaflow.com/catalytic-converters/catalytic-converters/california/products

flanges can be found at Bear River Converters

http://www.bearriverconverters.com/

2 inch repair flanges

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FX8051-2-ID-Universal-QuickFix-Exhaust-Spring-Bolt-Flange-Repair-Pipe-Kit-/171101565202

 

I'm sure someone here will object to aftermarket cats & come up with genuine Subaru part source.

 

Edit: Sure enough GD couldn't resist the bait..................................

Edited July 16, 2017 by czny

[GeneralDisorder]

The aftermarket stuff is junk. Contact Steven @ Inferno Fabrications:

 

http://www.infernofab.com/index.html

 

He will need to know if the rear oxygen sensor is behind the first or second cat on your car.

 

GD

Edited July 16, 2017 by GeneralDisorder

[Mikevan10]

Thanks for the comments folks.

 

Now, what are the concerns with aftermarket cats?  Poor fit?  Poor performance as far as dangerous exhaust gas treatment leading to increased air pollution?  Poor performance leading to MIL illumination and trouble codes being set?

 

Both of the oxygen sensors are in the front cat. There is a small bulge in the exhaust pipe section upstream of the flex joint which I guess could be a second cat.  No sensors there.

 

No comments on the "Engine Family", etc.?

 

Thanks again.

[Mikevan10]

Well, the boss/bung that the rear sensor screws into broke away from the cat housing when I tried to remove the sensor so I guess I have no choice but to replace the catalytic converter.

[Mikevan10]

Wouldn't a cat made by Inferno Fab be "aftermarket"?

[czny]

Thanks for the comments folks.

 

Now, what are the concerns with aftermarket cats?  Poor fit?  Poor performance as far as dangerous exhaust gas treatment leading to increased air pollution?  Poor performance leading to MIL illumination and trouble codes being set?

 

Both of the oxygen sensors are in the front cat. There is a small bulge in the exhaust pipe section upstream of the flex joint which I guess could be a second cat.  No sensors there.

 

No comments on the "Engine Family", etc.?

 

Thanks again.

I have had an Eastern Catalytic converter come apart leaving the 'biscuit' to rattle around inside the can. Never had a Walker nor Magnaflow do that, but the substrates just don't last very long - some shorter than the 2 yr period between mandatory smog testing here in Commiefornia.

Check online at Amazon too - saw some kidney shaped cats with all flanges etc as high as $400 there.

Happy hunting!

[golucky66]

Common issues I've seen or other people on this site dislike about aftermarket cats.

Include but not limited to:

Return of the P0420

Rust out after a short period of time

Separate internally

Don't fit

Don't seal (at the gasket surfaces)

Etc

 

1 and 2 are the more common issues.

 

From what I've seen and read about oem cats verse aftermarket ones.

If the ecm needs to see the cat being minimum 85% efficient to not set the P0420, the oem one will start out at as close to 100% as physically possible. Because they want the cats to last the life of the vehicle.

Aftermarket companies can keep their price lower by having the cats start at say 90% efficient. So it might not set the P0420 when you install the cat. But give it a couple thousand miles (sometimes 10-20k) and it'll come back.

 

There are companies who sell cats that start at sub 85% (all relative numbers) because some manufacturers don't set the P0420 until like 70-80%

Most of the Japanese cars Imo set P0420 much easier then the domestic.

 

So either fork out the cost of an oem or find an aftermarket that has a really good reputation.

Edited July 16, 2017 by golucky66

[Mikevan10]

Thank you for the comments.

 

For the record:

 

1. The "problem" I am trying to resolve is code P0136 being set (not P0420).

2. The car has 285,000 miles on it and is a rust bucket.  I am trying to get at least another year out of it.  Basically just for local travel.

 

So I just need a cat that will satisfy these two requirements.  And I am not even sure how much the catalytic converter itself has to do with P0136.

[golucky66]

A cat is unlikely to set that code. Or at least jist one bank.

You likely need an O2. But you should check the wiring for that bank and make sure its not damaged. If not. Put in a new O2

[Mikevan10]

Just wondering, now, what code, if any, gets set if your catalytic converter is not doing its job.  Seems like P0136 would get set if there is a wiring issue between the rear O2 sensor and the ECU and, maybe, if there is an issue with the rear O2 sensor itself.  But nowhere have I read or heard that P0136 has anything to do with the nature of the exhaust gas leaving the cat.  Is this correct?

[GeneralDisorder]

P0136 is a failed rear O2 sensor or a wiring issue. Has nothing to do with the cat.

 

Inferno does use aftermarket cats. There are many quality levels out there. The ones used by walker, etc are junk. His aren't. It's either that or get OEM. The Walker, etc products last about 9 months if you are lucky.

 

GD

[msmithmmx]

I am using after market cat that I purchased from Amazon without issue. Even comes with a 5 year warranty. Was 1/4 the cost

[GeneralDisorder]

I am using after market cat that I purchased from Amazon without issue. Even comes with a 5 year warranty. Was 1/4 the cost

Be prepared to use the warranty. I got a call from one of my aftermarket parts suppliers wondering why they always get Subaru cats returned by other shops and why we never buy them.... wanted to know what our secret was. Its such an issue they cold called me to try and figure it out. Unfortunately all I could tell them was they don't work.

 

It's pretty telling that the cat recyclers pay us $100 - $200 for factory cats and only $10 for ANY aftermarket cat. There's a qualitative difference resulting in approx 10x the price going in and coming out.

 

GD

Edited July 19, 2017 by GeneralDisorder

[lmdew]

So you need a front CAT with both O2 sensor fittings on it.  

 

I think I have a good one.  Shipped from Colorado.  Where are you?

[msmithmmx]

Be prepared to use the warranty. I got a call from one of my aftermarket parts suppliers wondering why they always get Subaru cats returned by other shops and why we never buy them.... wanted to know what our secret was. Its such an issue they cold called me to try and figure it out. Unfortunately all I could tell them was they don't work.

 

It's pretty telling that the cat recyclers pay us $100 - $200 for factory cats and only $10 for ANY aftermarket cat. There's a qualitative difference resulting in approx 10x the price going in and coming out.

 

GD

I already used the warranty once after a flange rusted out in 12 months. It was a quick swap for the diy. I can see why you would not use them.

Edited July 20, 2017 by msmithmmx

[GeneralDisorder]

I already used the warranty once after a flange rusted out in 12 months. It was a quick swap for the diy. I can see why you would not use them.

 

Steven at Inferno can do a catted J-pipe for about $350 and he guarantees them also. His water jet cut flanges are 3/8" thick. 

 

GD

[Mikevan10]

Well, I know this is not considered good practice, but I went ahead and ordered an El Cheapo (I think that was the brand) converter for $150.00.  Hope to receive it today or tomorrow so I can put tis car back on the road.  Thanks for the offer Imdew but it's too late.

 

Like I said, the car is already close to a basket case due to body rust and has other impending issues so I doubt the cat will rust out before I scrap the car.  Tentatively planned for next spring.  We will see.

 

Thanks again.

 

Mike V.

[GeneralDisorder]

If it's that shot, I would have gone to some shops or searched around craigslist for someone doing a part-out and got a used factory cat for $100 from someone. Legit businesses can't sell them but people do sell them on the side for cash, etc.

 

Rust isn't the only issue. Many of the really cheap one's won't actually get rid of the check engine light so they are worse than useless. Broken right out of the box. 

 

AND - as I said YOU HAVE AN O2 CIRCUIT CODE!!! The cat is not the problem and never was. You need a new O2 sensor. 

 

GD

Edited July 21, 2017 by GeneralDisorder

[Mikevan10]

Thanks for sticking with me on this GD.  I do not question your advice on this and you are probably 100% correct.  And I am sorry if I'm coming across as one of those guys that asks for help and then argues with everyone who tries to give it!

 

BUT..... here's my standpoint on all of this:

 

1. I'm not good at searching the internet for used stuff and really don't want to spend the time doing so and if I were lucky enough to find what I want at a reasonable price, how soon would I receive it?  Rock Auto usually gets stuff to me pretty quickly.

2. As I mentioned, my original cat is now totally useless because the boss (aka bung) that the rear oxygen sensor screws into tore away from the cat housing when I tried to unscrew the sensor.  I understand that the cat itself never was the cause of the P0136 code, but the cat definitely needs to be replaced now...

3.  I did order a new rear O2 sensor so that will go in too.

4.  If I now get a P0420 due to the new (cheap aftermarket) converter, I understand the "extender" trick is pretty reliable for eliminating that fault code?

 

Thanks again!

 

Mike V

[matt167]

I have re welded bungs on cats before. I can do it blind on the car with a stick welder. It's not a big deal

[GeneralDisorder]

Sounds like the rust probably precludes welding it also.

 

Yes you can use a spacer to eliminate the P0420 code on pre-2005 models. We don't do that as a shop - it's highly illegal. Check out Amazon for 90 degree spacers these work best.

 

GD

[Mikevan10]

Well I installed the $150 Walker cat back on July 22.  Installed a new Bosch rear O2 sensor at the same time.  Have put maybe 250 miles on it since.  No CEL/MIL yet.   Finally passed emissions inspection!  The Walker fit fine.  We'll see how long it lasts....