thook44 Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) You would need a 1996-1998 EJ22E intake manifold with the 1998 harness to use your 1994 long block, but it will work... 1997-1998 Impreza wagon is pretty much same size as a Forester, and the dash/ electronics are the same. You'll have wire length issues and light connections won't be right but you can make it work... Speedo and tach both run through the ECU on a 2001. hmmm....sounding promising. thank you so kindly if you don't mind and know where a good one is online, i'm going to need a wiring diagram/layout to study for the ecu on an '01 forester....or whatever year around that that'll be similar in nature. iow's, if the sunroof's didn't happen until '01, that's where i want to continue exploring...up to whatever year this becomes even more crazy or impossible. '02, you say? btw, what happens in '03/'04 that changes the dynamic? wire extension and connector swaps are not a prob. i had to do a bit of that on the '92 since the replacement motor that wound up with head failure (mentioned above) was from an '89 edit: wait...are you saying with the impreza harness i could go up to a 2004 model? and, would i still need a different intake manifold? Edited August 31, 2017 by thook44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 oh, and matt....my name is matthew. nice to meet you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 found this looking for info and manualshttps://sl-i.net/FORUM/index.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Anything after 2002 is going to be harness merge... What happens in 2003-4 is that they used new dashboards and electronics throughout.. Forester used the facelift Impreza dash from 1998-2002 and Impreza used it 1997-2001.. In 2003 the Forester got it's own unique dashboard that does not go along with Impreza any longer, the HVAC is unique to the Forester of that era.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 pretty much any wiring diagram you desire can be found here... http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 Anything after 2002 is going to be harness merge... What happens in 2003-4 is that they used new dashboards and electronics throughout.. Forester used the facelift Impreza dash from 1998-2002 and Impreza used it 1997-2001.. In 2003 the Forester got it's own unique dashboard that does not go along with Impreza any longer, the HVAC is unique to the Forester of that era.. got it. thank you i decided late last night that if, in the future, i did change my mind on the interference issue i'd go ahead with a sohc 2.5L and mls headgaskets if it needed them....ie, if they're not already installed. i'm reading with a phase II 2.2L there's only a 10% increase in power going to the interference configuration. the 2.5L 165hp seems worth the potentials of interference and the mls seems to be a good fix on the hg issue. am i right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 pretty much any wiring diagram you desire can be found here... http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/ excellent! i wish i could find better stuff for my yotas like this. online, anyway. well....maybe they're around and i just haven't been able to find them, yet. still, the hard copies are $$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 got it. thank you i decided late last night that if, in the future, i did change my mind on the interference issue i'd go ahead with a sohc 2.5L and mls headgaskets if it needed them....ie, if they're not already installed. i'm reading with a phase II 2.2L there's only a 10% increase in power going to the interference configuration. the 2.5L 165hp seems worth the potentials of interference and the mls seems to be a good fix on the hg issue. am i right? What I would do is buy an '03-'05 Forester that needs an engine. Find them lots of places. buy a JDM SOHC EJ201/2/3 and just drop one in and drive it. 155hp, they really don't have head gasket issues and the piston slap issues are nil.. Put a quality timing kit in and you'll never worry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) What I would do is buy an '03-'05 Forester that needs an engine. Find them lots of places. buy a JDM SOHC EJ201/2/3 and just drop one in and drive it. 155hp, they really don't have head gasket issues and the piston slap issues are nil.. Put a quality timing kit in and you'll never worry oh really????!!!!! i will look into this! that's the motor you mentioned before, right? which vehicles are those typically found in from factory? yeah, not much diff between 155 and 165. piston slap issues are nil? meaning what? it's a non-interference motor? edit: i see....they were not available on the usdm...hence jdm. so, i'm not going to find one sitting in a salvage lot around here (i'm learning the ropes... ) Edited August 31, 2017 by thook44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 lol.....pieces are coming together this is the thread i found yesterday i mentioned in a previous post potentially having relevant info: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/145455-phase-1-ej22-in-to-2000-forester-ej20-help/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 oh really????!!!!! i will look into this! that's the motor you mentioned before, right? which vehicles are those typically found in from factory? yeah, not much diff between 155 and 165. piston slap issues are nil? meaning what? it's a non-interference motor? edit: i see....they were not available on the usdm...hence jdm. so, i'm not going to find one sitting in a salvage lot around here (i'm learning the ropes... ) Yeah, every JDM supplier in the country that deals with Subaru will have at least a dozen or so EJ201, EJ202,EJ203 on hand. They are all basically the same minus the electrical differences where you swap cam and crank pullies and sensors.. Price is well under $1000, some sellers will let them go for dirt cheap ( $500 or so ) if you show up with a truck and they don't have to do anything. Ebay or online price is right around $600 The early factory SOHC 2.5's ( EJ253, EJ251, EJ252 ) have a tendency to piston slap cold.. Sounds like rod knock but goes away.. The 2.0L is just a much finer running engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) if i do change my mind on the issue, that'll be the one i go with. sounds good. thanks! okay, but it's still interference. i understand; quality timing kit, regular interval.....bulletproof. nevertheless... ivans imports made some postings in another thread about using '94/earlier 2.2L heads on a 2.5L engine with the 2.5 thicker gaskets thereby making it non-interference. do you know what he's going on about? i'm just wondering if that road may solve my dllemma. of course, another dude contradicts that...http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/141498-why-do-you-guys-love-the-ej22-confused/page-2 it's kinda funny because i'd been wondering along the lines of this idea. i mean, if heads and block are decked, people can create more compression, but it increases piston to valve tolerance. so, what if by some mechanical means a motor...of whatever combo/build/mod....could be made non interference. the mechanics have change, but the electronics have not. of course there's crank and cam rotation dynamics to consider, but what's being changed here is the valve/piston clearance. and, of course, there'd be a potential loss in compression and hp, but how much and how could that be compensated for? and, how much would it matter? Edited August 31, 2017 by thook44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 You can bolt EJ22E 2.2L heads on a 2.5L block which will give you a non interference engine. higher compression. It works but it can be unstable. And is only compatible with phase 1 cars, which is 1990-1998 or 1999 if EJ25D car. You could mixmatch thick head gaskets and stuff to try to make the valves not interfere, it indeed lowers compression, but also messes with the quench which is the flame front across the chamber. Quench needs to be right, or the engine just won't run very good.. It would need timing changes to maximize its poor tolerances and ECU's before 1999 ( early phase 2 actually ) cannot be tuned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 You can bolt EJ22E 2.2L heads on a 2.5L block which will give you a non interference engine. higher compression. It works but it can be unstable. And is only compatible with phase 1 cars, which is 1990-1998 or 1999 if EJ25D car. You could mixmatch thick head gaskets and stuff to try to make the valves not interfere, it indeed lowers compression, but also messes with the quench which is the flame front across the chamber. Quench needs to be right, or the engine just won't run very good.. It would need timing changes to maximize its poor tolerances and ECU's before 1999 ( early phase 2 actually ) cannot be tuned "quench"....i didn't know what it was called, but i had thought about that issue after i posted. "unstable/compatible"....fair enough. curious, though...in what way does it become unstable? you mean just in overall runability/smoothness? or would it be prone to early failure in some areas.....like headgaskets or ignition stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 It has to do with the quench. Actually ends up too tight that the flame front is shrouded.. They do make more power from more compression, but the engines don't run the best, they ping and then they end up blown up eventually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golucky66 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 All of this, just to have the possibility of a non-interference engine? Seems like an awful lot of work for really nothing. As people said, a god quality timing belt kit is all you need to go 100k. But it's your (future) car. So if you are set on getting an non-interference, and want it to be a newer body. Power to you. Will certainly be interesting to see what you end up doing. Just a lot of work for a mind set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 (edited) "god" quality, eh? with that, i'd think i'd be able to go infinitely.... well, you don't know until you dig, right? it's an itch i have to scratch. but, you (all) do have a valid point and it's not escaped me. it is a lot of work. but, so is rebuilding an engine if for whatever reason the timing set fails in whatever way. i'm not sure what'll happen. depends on where i'm at financially, what actually manifests, and what i'm up for at the time i'm ready to do something. set on N/I? call it more of a strong leaning and thorough examination of the option at the onset of this, i was surprised to be finding chassis's at prices within my reach, and i got excited over the idea of possibly being able to just drop my motor/tranny in and have a forester. (my legacy has been needing a lot of major repair and could have nearly paid for a forester chassis by now) i knew, of course, there'd have to be some things to tweak and work around...just had to find out what. now, i have a really good idea of what's possible and what'd be required weighing in my preferences. (thank you all!) my friend did a westy/suby conversion not too long ago. talk about a b***** of a job,. and, he did it all by his lonesome. worth it? he's got everything he wanted in a project recreation vehicle....save maybe 5spd's and a syncro. but, whatever... Edited September 1, 2017 by thook44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 (edited) What I would do is buy an '03-'05 Forester that needs an engine. Find them lots of places. buy a JDM SOHC EJ201/2/3 and just drop one in and drive it. 155hp, they really don't have head gasket issues and the piston slap issues are nil.. Put a quality timing kit in and you'll never worry what makes the ej20 series an interference engine? i read the phase II ej's (usdm, atleast) are because of the change in piston design. did it have anything to do with cylinder head changes (sohc) as well? also, and why not earlier than '03? say to an '01? ecu/jecs and triggers? Edited September 1, 2017 by thook44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 (edited) iow's, pertaining to that second question, if on overseas '00 forester came with (or can run) an ej20 and a usdm '03-'05 came from factory with a phase II ej25 yet can run an ej20 but a usdm '02/'01/'00 cannot...what gives? Edited September 1, 2017 by thook44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Yes you can, but I thought you wanted an SG ( 2003+ ) Forester.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Yes you can, but I thought you wanted an SG ( 2003+ ) Forester.. From his initial post in this thread... ...i would like a forester, but a late 90's or earlier 2k model. and, i would prefer a standard 5spd tranny. sunroof would be swell, but i could live without it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 thanks, heartless hehe.....yeah, like i also said (or implied).... it just depends; if i had the money and an '03 or something showed up for the right price needing a motor, was a 5spd, was the right color, had the sunroof ('cause you know...my wife), it'd be real hard to pass on it. that eklund guy's suby looks pretty sweet. doesn't have the sunroof, but still.... okay.... more on that ej20. i'm really looking around the web, but i just haven't found the info, yet. what is it about the ej20 that makes it interference? is it like the ej25.... the piston design? or would the heads/valvetrain design also have anything to do with it? also, how is it that ej20 gains more hp than the ej22e with a tad less displacement? again, piston/valvetrain design? having less tolerance between piston crown and valves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 i did manage to find that it's the ej204 with dohc that gains 155hp. other ej20 versions not so much hp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Not sure where your info is from. The EJ204 is a high compression version of the EJ205 with active valve management. Only the very early EJ204 got 155hp, others were 165-190hp The numbers on the SOHC EJ20 are skewed a bit since Subaru never actually published the numbers. But generally 140-155hp is what your looking at. Ej22 is a published 135-142 ho engine depending on year.. As far as what makes the engines interference or not is the cylinder head design. If the pistons and valves occupy the same space at different times = interference, if not, then it's non interference. All Subaru engines have been interference since the EJ22 went interference in 1997 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) no, no.....i understand what makes an engine in general interference or not. i've had my 22re. what i mean is there was a change in design with the ej engines that made them interference. where i've read, some said it was entirely due to a redesigning of the pistons. someone/s else said there was also a change in the cylinder head design. so, i'm trying to get clarity on that....particularly in relation to the ej20. reason... i read at nasioc some guys throwing ej20's heads on ej22e blocks. pretty sure they're talking about phase I blocks, too. so, i'm wondering....okay....ej20 on the ej22 block. would it be non-interference? or, would the ej20 heads still make it interference? you see where i'm going with this? oh...and that info. i don't remember offhand how or where i found it. i'd have to go through my history on my computer at home to find the link. i've been trying to compile study material...lol Edited September 3, 2017 by thook44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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