XHighOctanex Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 So Gloyale I believe it was brought it to my attention people don't usually 5lug swap on offroad cars. Why not? I am planning on driving this car quite far and I don't enjoy having redrilled wheels nor hubs. I cant find the 14s and would rather not run those now because I already have a pretty new set of 15inch grabbers. I can get stock foresters or even methods like every other offroad newer roo ever for wheels. Is there a reason not to 5lug swap? Also I have found everything I need for the swap I just have to pick it up from a buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 The biggest reason to go 5-lug, is for brake and suspension upgrades for street use. The truth is, the stock 4-lug brakes (rear disc conversion) will perform just fine for typical offroad use, and the 5-lug suspension options don't offer any more travel. Also, virtually all 5x100 wheels are very high offset. Typically too much for oversized tires. If it were 5x114.3 (5x4.5), then you'd have a ton of wheel options, in any dimension you can dream up. But 5x100 is not common enough. Standard EA82 4WD struts will have more tire clearance than the tallest 5-lug front strut (Outback struts generally have room for about 29" tall tires). And for the cost of XT6 rear hubs these days, you could buy a lift, rear disc swap, and a drill press to redrill to 6-lug yourself. Even if I got the 5-lug parts for free, if I was building an offroad rig, I'd sell them and go 6-lug. Heck, for the cost of XT6 hubs, you could probably buy a set of Peugeot 15s, All that said, it's been done. It's not necessarily bad, just not usually cost effective. For most peoples' offroad Subaru use, a couple degrees of Ackermann angle, and a little more dampening, and another inch of rotor diameter, just isn't worth the cost and labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Well......where to start. You think finding Pugs is hard? Just getting harder to find parts for the rear rear XT6 stuff. But I guess if you do find it all fine to go ahead and use it. Then hope it doesn't strip or where the hubs ever cause then you'll be F-ed. The issue for me is the front. I love using the dual E-brake mod on the front wheels. Combined with a welded rear diff gives you amazing traction and climbing ability on very uneven ground. For any 5 lug setup, you will need some kind of EJ strut. To get ones with tall engouh perches to clear offroad size tires, you will need Outback or Forrester struts. which are super tall and requires adjusting the height of lift blocks vs. cradle drop to get the geometry right. To keep the front E-brake, you need XT6 knuckles and axles. And axles being a consumable, you will want to have a trail spare. rare axles that won't be available much longer. not ideal for wheelin. If you go Impreza Knuckles and axles....aside from reaming arms, and changing out to different struts. You will have bottoming out in the inner cup when the axle plunges. And then you have NO ebrake, unless you re-route/swap EJ cables and handle to the rear and use 240sx calipers. And either way you will find your wheel choices for offset become more limited. just alot of work and mostly money/time/aquiring parts issues to just trash on trails. A properly redrilled set of six-lug wheels works great. Why so much hesitation to go that route? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XHighOctanex Posted August 29, 2017 Author Share Posted August 29, 2017 Well......where to start. You think finding Pugs is hard? Just getting harder to find parts for the rear rear XT6 stuff. But I guess if you do find it all fine to go ahead and use it. Then hope it doesn't strip or where the hubs ever cause then you'll be F-ed. The issue for me is the front. I love using the dual E-brake mod on the front wheels. Combined with a welded rear diff gives you amazing traction and climbing ability on very uneven ground. For any 5 lug setup, you will need some kind of EJ strut. To get ones with tall engouh perches to clear offroad size tires, you will need Outback or Forrester struts. which are super tall and requires adjusting the height of lift blocks vs. cradle drop to get the geometry right. To keep the front E-brake, you need XT6 knuckles and axles. And axles being a consumable, you will want to have a trail spare. rare axles that won't be available much longer. not ideal for wheelin. If you go Impreza Knuckles and axles....aside from reaming arms, and changing out to different struts. You will have bottoming out in the inner cup when the axle plunges. And then you have NO ebrake, unless you re-route/swap EJ cables and handle to the rear and use 240sx calipers. And either way you will find your wheel choices for offset become more limited. just alot of work and mostly money/time/aquiring parts issues to just trash on trails. A properly redrilled set of six-lug wheels works great. Why so much hesitation to go that route? I already have a 2inch lift, redrilled 15inch Mazda b2600i wheels with 27inch grabbers on them AND I did the rear disc conversion. And I just feel weird with redrilled wheels or hubs as it is I check my torque very frequently, even tho none have been loose yet, I really just want the 5lug for piece of mind and even better brakes. I'm picking up another dual range this weekend and having it rebuild as well as the front diff itself and getting another rear diff and rebuilding that. My ej25 I'm building is a full tear down motor new bearings new rings new gaskets cleaned up honed the cylinders new waterpump new timing kit. I just want to be able to drive my car anywhere I want and not worry about anything breaking. My redrilled wheels work great for drives around here to wheel and the occasional 3 hour drive to camp and wheel, but I want to be able to go states at a time for longer periods of time without worry. Also I have tracked down a complete 5lug swap my friend has I would just have to drove a few hours to pick it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djellum Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 the rims or hubs were drilled in the first place, no matter how many holes they have. if it were me, I would take a spare set of hubs to a machine shop and have them drill them. no different than what the factory did other than maybe using a robot instead of a person. then you arent stuck on one set of rims and can use any six lug. also you have the option of easily going back to stock if you sell the car or something. cant imagine it would cost more than $5-$10 a hole to have a machine shop do it, and its pretty easy to do yourself as well. I went the easier route and got a couple of sets of pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 You don't HAVE to have xt6 knuckles and axles to have front ebrake with 5 lug. You can use 93/94 fwd impreza rotors and caliper brackets with xt6 calipers on easy to find "ej" knuckles. The details of this were hashed out a few months ago between grossgary, myself, and maybe a few others. I currently have that exact setup on my 84 turbo hardtop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru Scott Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 You don't HAVE to have xt6 knuckles and axles to have front ebrake with 5 lug. You can use 93/94 fwd impreza rotors and caliper brackets with xt6 calipers on easy to find "ej" knuckles. The details of this were hashed out a few months ago between grossgary, myself, and maybe a few others. I currently have that exact setup on my 84 turbo hardtop. Nice! Whatcha running in the rear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Rear is all xt6 parts currently. I had wrx brakes on the front, but when I did the manual swap I wanted a functional ebrake so I did the impreza/xt6 parts because it was cheaper and easier to throw together with what I had laying around than converting to rear ebrake from legacy parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I sort of see where you're coming from. But... I just want to be able to drive my car anywhere I want and not worry about anything breaking. Building one car out of 5+ is not likely going to provide this. While I never had any major issues with my Loyale (EJ22, RX transmission, 5-lug, etc.), I did have a few things, and it was enough that I thought twice before taking it on a road trip. We almost always preferred to take my girlfriend's Kia (now she's my wife, and drives a Subaru) if we were leaving town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Building one car out of 5+ is not likely going to provide this.. That's a good point. Older gen engines are very reliable - it's only age that works against that: hoses, clamps, timing belts (if equipped), timing pulleys, water pump, coolant hoses, clamps, rad caps aren't 20 years old, cap, rotor, wires, plugs. and then things that will almost always strand you if they fail - alternator, starter, fuel pump (wear items that are hard to find on a trip and poor quality from aftermarket sources anyway). one of those will strand you - not the wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I just want to be able to drive my car anywhere I want and not worry about anything breaking. My redrilled wheels work great for drives around here to wheel and the occasional 3 hour drive to camp and wheel, but I want to be able to go states at a time for longer periods of time without worry. This is a problem with a mental sate, not your wheels. I've driven fully across country twice now on redrilled 15" Toyota rims. Once in an EJ swapped GL-10 wagon, the second time in an 4wd XT 4cyl. You'll be more likely to be stuck unable to find an axle or front wheel bearing for xt6 than to have an issue with redrilled wheels (provided they are drilled well) Just trying to give you advice that will keep you driving rather than tinkering to cobble toghether a swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XHighOctanex Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 I'm picking up another trans this weekend so I'll grab a set of hubs while I'm at it. And it's definitely more me worrying than the car. Like I said I've never had any trouble with the wheels being drilled as is. I still want to do the swap but I'll try redrilling some hubs and see if that feels any better. Also does anyone know if the parts to rebuild dual ranges are still available? My front diff sounds like an airplane over 35 so I'm going to pick up a junkyard trans that feels alright and either do bearings and synchros in that and if possible the diff or throw it in and rebuild mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Like I said I've never had any trouble with the wheels being drilled as is....but I'll try redrilling some hubs and see if that feels any better. Why would that feel better? What's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I'm picking up another trans this weekend so I'll grab a set of hubs while I'm at it. And it's definitely more me worrying than the car. Like I said I've never had any trouble with the wheels being drilled as is. I still want to do the swap but I'll try redrilling some hubs and see if that feels any better. Also does anyone know if the parts to rebuild dual ranges are still available? My front diff sounds like an airplane over 35 so I'm going to pick up a junkyard trans that feels alright and either do bearings and synchros in that and if possible the diff or throw it in and rebuild mine. bearings are available since they are shared with most early EJ 5spds. But the R+P sets have been zero'd out by SOA. Not available unless you can find NOS or aftermarket like Subagears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XHighOctanex Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 Why would that feel better? What's the difference? Make my head feel better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XHighOctanex Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 bearings are available since they are shared with most early EJ 5spds. But the R+P sets have been zero'd out by SOA. Not available unless you can find NOS or aftermarket like Subagears. Damn looks like I got a good paperweight then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru Scott Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Keep your eyes peeled for a JDM EJ trans. They do pop up occasionally. Many times, the seller doesn't even know it's a dual range. Just look at the pics for the lever. You can even swap in the lower, dual range gearset from your EA trans. There's a write-up somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XHighOctanex Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 I have like no updated pictures of my car on here so here's one by the way everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XHighOctanex Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 I'm not sure when it'll let me upload again since I've been trying do a while so here's more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Keep your eyes peeled for a JDM EJ trans. They do pop up occasionally. Many times, the seller doesn't even know it's a dual range. Just look at the pics for the lever. You can even swap in the lower, dual range gearset from your EA trans. There's a write-up somewhere... yeah but then your AWD not 4wd so you only get one wheel loose and you're stopped. Just gotta treat those old 4wd D/Rs nice and keep em around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I just realized you have redrilled aluminum wheels......yikes. No, that's bad news. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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