New used car blues

[xdeadeye1]

I have a problem..  not sure what it is. Hoping its fixable ,,  Easily..(eyeroll)

 

117k miles on 2000 outback wagon.

 

Drove car home ,  started smoking.   Tranny was over full.     Drove it home and had no other issues.

 

Got home, drained and refilled.   Ran normal the few  times i drove it around,,   

 

Now,   when it downshiftts on a hill ,,, the engine kicks down,, but the car doesnt pick up speed,,    i dont know if this is "slippping" or not.

 

But i know it isnt right.  I have a 1996 wagon with 210000 miles and it doesnt behave like this.

 

According to the dipstick the tranny fluid is to the full hot line.   

 

Maybe someone put a wrong dipstick in ?  IDK  Its a plastic yellow hoop top dipstick.  I am also throwing a code  CEL.   IDK what it is yet.  But it didnt have it on before today.

 

im sick to my stomache.   Any advice is appreciated.  Ill check the engine code later when i get home.

 

 

ps.  It runs and accelerates and goes 70 mph on flat stretches,,   

[1 Lucky Texan]

fluid LOOK OK? maybe someone put diff oil in there?

 

any codes stored? scan ecu for codes.

 

bad knock sensor will kill performance and sometimes not set a code.

 

check timing, may have slipped a notch. (when eas the timing system serviced last?)

[xdeadeye1]

um.. well fluid looked red.  i replaced what i took out,  not a full flush.   I changed filter

 

Ill scan tonight

 

As far as i know , the timing belt was changed at 62k miles.  its now at 117k

 

Thats all i know.  It ran great bringing it home and the week or two i had it home.

[xdeadeye1]

wondering if the guy overfilled the transmission to cover the issue..  IDK

[1 Lucky Texan]

usually, trans get under-filled when folks don't idle the car to check, so, I thought maybe it got diff fluid put in or w'ever by a SpiffyLube that wasn't familiar with soobs.

 

maybe try some Trans-X to free-up gummy valves?

[wtdash]

check codes, report back.

 

I'd do the 3x Drain, Refill, Drive on the Trans fluid  -this gets about 95% new ATF in there incl. the Torque Converter (TC).  For that OB, I'd just buy the cheapest Dex III compatible you can buy - I've not had issues w/the Walmart 'house' brand.

 

That filter on the Transmission is 'lifetime' per Subaru. I'd ensure that if you replaced it, you used Subaru OEM...not a cheapy.

 

Check the front diff gear oil, too. - it's the one on the other side (passenger) that also likely has a yellow dipstick. Just to ensure some dunce didn't mix'n'match your fluids.

 

The 4EAT is a good transmission. 250K+ on my step's '00 OB...FWIW; that 2.5? Notsomuch.

 

GL,

TD

Edited November 13, 2017 by wtdash

[xdeadeye1]

I checked the CEL code.

 

it said fault 1

 

then it said N/A     no code given.  I erased it to see if something else happens.

 

Its not driving right,, shifting right, even on flat ground now.. doesn't want to go up into next gear.   

 

 

The fluid I put in was 7.50 / bottle,,   Castrol Multi import.    

 

I'm praying it isn't  a bad transmission.  But at this point I don't know what else it can be. 

[xdeadeye1]

would a clogged cat converter do this? 

 

When I bought the car the guy said something about the cat converter needing replaced.  I test drove it,, and then drove it home 2.5 hrs and had no issues..  So I thought it was a non issue.

[idosubaru]

People frequently misdiagnose engine issues for transmission issues. Are you positive it’s the transmission?

 

*** is the AT light flashing 16 times at start up?

Check for a dented transmission pan.

 

*** “Fault 1” is not an OBDII code. They are four digit codes. Sounds like you have an engine issue and something is wrong with your reader, engine or the person reading the code.

 

Id check the timing belt timing marks immediately. Interference engine. Engine should get new pulleys and tensioner and probably a belt too after you fix this issue.

[xdeadeye1]

This is a 2000 outback wagon.

 

When I turn the key to on,, all the lights light up.   I see the AT oil Temp light.

 

When I turn the key and start it,, the AT oil Temp light stays on for 3 seconds and then goes out.

 

I had cleared the CEL.  I drove it to town (about 3 miles) and back, and no CEL came on.

 

I noticed it seems to lack power where it should have a  "powerband"  between 2500 and 3k rpms. 

 

I took it easy,  I climbed a hill it down shifted once and all seemed ok.. Then I crested and went down the other side and it didn't seem to want to shift up into the higher gear.

It did eventually.   And I went the rest of the flat way  home. 

[Rooster2]

The 99 and 00 Leggie models are prone to AT sticky valves, usually with delayed forward engagement problem, when shifting from Park to Drive. That doesn't seem to be your case, but adding 15 oz. of Trans-X could help the shifting. Add last, after 3X ATF drain and fills.

[1 Lucky Texan]

any indication the trans pan is dented?

[Fairtax4me]

Checking the dipstick on the left side correct? Next to the starter? 

Walmart supertech Dex/Merc Multi-vehicle fluid is way cheaper and works just as well as Castrol IMO. Be glad its not CVT fluid at $15 a quart. 

 

Hot ATF expands and the level will rise. How high was the level when you checked it? Engine running? 

 

Where was it smoking from? Was there ATF leaking out of the dipstick tube? 

[xdeadeye1]

Yes dipstick by starter.. yellow top,, with a ring pull.

Reads full.

 

I checked it running and hot.   It was  a lil over the full hot line.   

 

When I brought it home when I first got it, it was dripping from the very rear of the transmission.. I think it was right at the cross member / trans support.  I thought it was over full.  I drained and refilled.

 

The transmission pan is not dented in any way.

My dipstick measures 17 1/2"  from the lip of the pull,, to the end of the metal rod.  Seems like its stock..  Says  Dextron II on the yellow plastic.

 

I took it for a short drive today to show my buddy (who knows nothing about cars or soobs)

I didn't warm it up hardly at all.   Went down the road,, shifted 1-2 a lil rough,, finally shifted to 3.   Has very little power..  no get up and go at all.

I kept giving it gas harder and it would down shift very hard and I would panic and let off it.   

we went about 3/4 mile and we got nervous we wouldn't get home.    I turned around and we limped into the driveway.  

 

I looked under the car to check the pan  to see if dented.      The exhaust pipe is smoking   a lil,, in front of the rear catalytic converter..  like it was very hot.

There is a sensor behind that same cat converter.   The car is throwing no CEL codes or anything.

 

Feels like its a trans problem.  But dang it has no power,, and at the end there it felt like even in 2nd gear  it had no get up and go.     

 

Could this be a cat converter problem?  If it was clogged...?  

 

If you have responded to this thread..  I really appreciate it.   I cant afford to send it to a trans shop or a dealer.   With no codes  and no experience in this area...  I'm trying to ascertain what the problem is before I move.

I'm hoping its not a full trans swap/ repair job,, and something that I can fix .   

Edited November 16, 2017 by xdeadeye1

[1 Lucky Texan]

wel, if exhaust is severely blocked, a vacuum gauge will show you, check youtube and other on-line info on that.

 

many folks have had bad/cracked knock sensors on older soobs that force the ECU to pull timing - kills power.

 

if you own a smartphone, tou can use Torque Free app and an ELM327 BT or similar adapter and get data from the ECU. That might tell us about ignition timing and a:f ratio corrections.

 

 

one idea, if you do a battery reset, pull neg term., press on the brake pedal, wait 10 minutes....w'ever , does the car run the same or better?

 

if better, I'd suspect a sensor-related issue, if the same, might be more physical/mechanical.

 

restting the ecu forces the use use of the 'factory rom map' and the car 'forgets and must re-learn adjustments from a:f and other sensors.

Edited November 16, 2017 by 1 Lucky Texan

[Fairtax4me]

Yeah could be a melted catalyst. Unbolt the cat from the y-pipe and pull it down and see if it's melted inside. Do the same for the second cat.

 

 

These normally shift a little rough on the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts when cold.

[xdeadeye1]

I think I could at least see if it drives better when I unbolt it..  and give exhaust somewhere to go.

 

I had daughter  start car..   while I had my hand at the exhaust tail pipe..   It had  cool air/exhaust comging thru it.  but not a ton of pressure.

 

She said it was up to 3k rpm and she was barely on the gas..     At 3k rpm I think I should have been able to tell at the rear... and I couldn't tell much differences

[xdeadeye1]

one idea i have is to remove the O2 sensor in the front ,,,,  allowing it breath a lil.    SHould i reset the computer like texan said  at the same time,, or wait and do seperately?

[1 Lucky Texan]

separately - youi wouldn't know which action improved things if the engine runs better.

[xdeadeye1]

tried to get 02 sensor out. It takes a 22mm wrench  that doesn't fit will because of the heat shield on the cat.

 

AND the 22mm open end wrench is about 10-12 " long...  sigh....

 

Now trying to see if my roadside assistance thru USAA will cover a tow to my Exhaust guy.

[xdeadeye1]

I noticed where the exhaust guy tacked up my heat shields.  Also looks like he filled a hole in the pipe,, right after where the heat shield is on the passenger side y pipe.

 

So I'm wondering if there was a hole there,, that may have let junk in over time.. and he just sealed it up.

 

Which might also explain why this started happening after I had been to his shop.

[Fairtax4me]

Would have been an obnoxiously loud leak if there was a hole before the cat. Maybe he burned a hole in the pipe and had to fill it in.

 

Need a crows foot O2 sensor wrench for these.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/tekton-3-8-in-drive-x-7-8-in-22mm-offset-oxygen-sensor-socket-1138355?cm_mmc=feed-_-GoogleShopping-_-Product-_-1138355&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4IGZ25PJ1wIVCavsCh1z2wqxEAQYCSABEgI_HvD_BwE

Edited November 18, 2017 by Fairtax4me

[sirtokesalot]

ive used a wrench to get the o2 sensor out successfully on an 03 outback should work on the 2000 take the o2 sensor out and go for a drive without it installed it will be loud as hell but if it has power without the o2 sensor installed its a plugged exhaust. take the front sensor out.

Edited November 18, 2017 by sirtokesalot

[heartless]

i have used these to get the O2 sensor out before...

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/8-piece-metric-offset-box-wrench-set-32042.html

 

kind of depends on the plug tho... if it will fit through or not.. on the 95 Legacy I had, it worked fine, did not fit over the 02 Forester sensor plug however.

[xdeadeye1]

I think I'm going to just order that tool. 

Havent yet.

 

 

Riddle me this.  Why isn't the car throwing CEL Codes? 

 

When I bought car, had codes.. reset them..

 

A week ago it said one fault,, but read no code out.      reset it.. now nothing