Starting problem 84 ea81

[CWAIS]

I am new to this forum so thank you for letting me in. I am
a Technology and Engineering teacher in a small town in Wisconsin. We do not
have an auto program here but we do a few projects with engines. Our last
project was an airboat, we built everything; the alum. hull, cage , stand,
trailer. We powered the airboat with an EA81 Stratus engine, redrive and
warpdrive 3 blade prop.

We rebuilt the engine, got it finished and it ran great, no

choking on starts it just fired right up and purred like a kitten. Has new
plugs (gapped correctly), new wires, new coil, new distributor, new starter
solenoid and new battery. Like I said it ran great, so I go to start it on a 60
degree day and it won’t start, tried again and again, then all of a sudden
while turning the key back to the run position it starts. Let it run for a 15mins
and shut it down. Next day I put a spark light between the spark plug and wire
on #1 . Went to start it same thing, no spark (fuel pump is running and is
getting fuel when I pump the pedal). Multiple times this happens then out of
the blue it starts. We are running a split wire to the coil +.  Run position with a resister and a starter
wire coming directly from the ignition post on the starter solenoid. I did try
a new key switch with the same results.

So that you know once this engine starts it runs great and I

can shut it off start it up without any problems but if it sits for 3 or 4
hours it becomes the same old thing.

Could this be a problem with the coil,

maybe the ignition module in the dizzy or just a grounding problem ( we have
retraced ever wire multiple times.

Tested the coil today zero on primary, 9.560 on secondary

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thank you

Chuck

[Knucklehead Saloon]

First thing I'd try is cranking it in the dark. If you've got a bad high tension insulator or connection you'll see where straight away.

 

Also run a multi meter across the primary coil terminals while cranking. You should see 12v+ rapidly turning on and off again.

 

If no voltage or a constant voltage its a downstream problem at the distributor in the electronic sensor.

 

If the coil is energizing/de-energizing rapidly like it should be my guess is a bad coil or coil lead to the dist. Cheers.

[lrgvanman]

I have simply forgotten if they have a ballast resistor but if it does, check it. It may have shorted.

[CWAIS]

Knucklehead nothing in the dark, zero voltage while cranking with meter leads on the + and - posts on the coil. When I checked the primary with an ohms meter I had  0.003. So are you saying that it is the icm in the distributor?

Irgvanman - We have a resister but that is being used during the run position and has a split wire that jumps in after the resister on its way to the coil (+) coming from the (I) terminal on the ignition solenoid. So during starting the coil is receiving full voltage.

[DaveT]

It's typical for the resistor to be bypassed while the key is in cranking position.  The available voltage is lower, due to the draw from the starter.  During normal running, the resistor is desired.

 

Check that you get + Voltage on the + side of the coil to GND, [not coil negative] while in run position and cranking.  If you don't, there's your problem.  The points ground the - side of the coil and then break the circuit when the spark is required - that's what adjusting the timing is setting.

[CWAIS]

Hooked the pos. lead to the pos. terminal on the coil and grounded the neg while cranking. In the run position on the key switch I had 11.60 and in the start position 9.72V while cranking.

[DaveT]

Ok, power is getting to the coil.

 

A small 12 v light bulb. Coon ect it across the points, it should light when they are open, go dark when closed. Blink while cranking.

 

Across the coil, it should be opposite, glow when the points are closed.

[CWAIS]

Dave so you are saying that we should connect one end of the light to the pos and the other end to the neg terminals of the coil while cranking.

This distributor has an ignition module no points so we should connect the light to the two terminals on the module? Sorry for the confusion but I want to make sure that I state it correctly to my student.

[DaveT]

oh, that idea won't work so well with electronic.  For some reason, I was thinking mechanical breaker points.

 

Bulb across the coil should still blink though, while cranking.

[jono]

is the answer for you in the zero coil reading ?

[Knucklehead Saloon]

Chi-ching !! No power to the coil primary winding.

 

My money is on the disty module. Just check to make sure you're getting power to the distributor and if you are then bingo. Shot module.

 

If no power to the distributor then look upstream for the fault and the dist is at this point ok. Check out the power supply wiring for a fractured wire or a bad/loose earth connection.

[naru]

Dave so you are saying that we should connect one end of the light to the pos and the other end to the neg terminals of the coil while cranking.

This distributor has an ignition module no points so we should connect the light to the two terminals on the module? Sorry for the confusion but I want to make sure that I state it correctly to my student.

 

Put your test light between coil - and battery - when cranking.

 

No light       = no power or an open coil

Steady light = bad module or wires

Pulsing light= OK

 

I would check for actual spark while cranking too.

 

Not completely sure what the Stratus runs for ignition,but the stock system has NO BALLAST RESISTOR.

Do you have dual ignition?

[DaveT]

+1 naru

[jono]

Plus one for zero reading on coil primary just read if can believe internet zero means short way high means opposite open circuit

[jono]

Just tested my original Diamond 7 E-019 use with igniter coil with DMM on fresh batteries as low battery can give dodgy readings

 

DMM red on + black on - threaded

terminals DMM scale of 200 Ohms got 2.1

 

DMM red stays on the pos terminal but black to coil tower and DMM in 20k range got 8.9 so gguessing is 8,900 Ohms

[DaveT]

Those numbers don't surprise me. I don't have an EA81 coil to check on.

 

Most common ohm meters aren't very accurate below 10 ohm. Check what you get probes together, subtract that from any reading in single digits or fractions.

 

Some things can read very low and be ok also, so you do want to know what a good one should be.

[jono]

Something I never see stated is whether to test coil primary and secondary circuits with loom wires still connected or totally disconnected. I trust latter.

 

How are you test ing? Zero says new coil is now kaput. What coil is it? Brand part number? Not running a points coil with ignition module? You are points coil ? you coz resistor in place. Factory ea81 with module do not run with resistor, only earlier points dust did with correct coil

Edited December 8, 2017 by jono

[jono]

Just tested insitu factory coil in factory application on my no start problem EA81 with wires connected to pos neg but coil ht lead off got 2.1 Ohms primary 10420 Ohms secondary on module type installation

[jono]

Just tried dmm on 20k range red to coil pos dmm black to dizzy end of coil lead and dmm readthe nno reaction 1 on screen. Checked at coil got the 10 k reading plugged ht lead in again and got 13,420 higher reading likely to leads resistance properties. No moisture no corrosion very new lead ignition off in all tests.

Lessee if she fires.!!

[DaveT]

Typical high tension cables have resistance, varies with the length, brand, etc.

 

If you measure ohms with everything connected, you don't nesisariy test what you think you are testing. Any other paths will change the reading.

 

When you get the no reaction on the 20k range, it could be open, OR just over 20k. Meaning depends on the circuitry, so you have to know what's normal for the type of circuit. Some know this stuff, I'm putting extra info for newbies.

[CWAIS]

Hopefully I can answer all the questions.

Coil is an ACCEL Super Stock 8140

Test Primary at 200 ohms on multi meter =1.2

Test Secondary at 20K ohms on multi meter = 9.14 (9,140)

Next

Battery ---key run position --- wire end at coil + to light --- to grd.  = LIGHT LIGHTS UP

       Battery ---key run position to  wire end at coil  to light   to coil (+) with all wires hooked up = NO LIGHT

Battery -key start position (cranking) - to solenoid  - to wire end at coil + to light - to grd. = LIGHT LIGHTS UP

       Battery ---key start position (cranking) to  wire end at coil --- to light ---  to coil (+) with all wires hooked up = NO LIGHT

Next

Checked wire from coil  +  to ignition module in distributor  =  Good     

Checked wire from ignition module in distributor to coil  -    =  Good

Distributor 

         Cardone 31-810 remanufactured

Thanks for all your help hopefully you can keep coming up with ideas to try

[jono]

Lucky mine fired up as soon as I swapped in old Hitachi module.

 

Can't see why you have no spark

[jono]

You have a multi meter.

 

Can you provide readings in place of light tester?

 

Maybe leave that light tester in tool box for a while

[CWAIS]

Jono - meter readings were posted earlier in #6 if there is something else that you would like me to test I will. I was using the  the light tester because that was what NARU had asked me to do.

Thanks for your input.

[jono]

OK. Have to remind self not in Subaru car so has generic ignition starter switch. Lucky, no steering lock to play up

 

I see you say in run position you get no light / 12V positive (+) at the coils positive (+) screw terminal. You should though, about battery voltage and see it drop about 2 volts due to cranking when cranking via starter motor.

 

How about you run a fused wire from battery pos to coil pos then try starter switch crank