Any hope of preventing rust in New England?

[Jack in Norfolk]

I really want to get another classic subaru. There are some nice ones for sale out west. I just don't have the heart to bring a great old car back east and throw it into certain death.

 

I understand that the best way is obviously not to drive in the snow, but when you are talking about an old 4wd subaru, what fun is that?

 

I live east of Boston. A few years ago I bought a Forester XT from a buddy and it was clean. Car spent most of its life in VA and Colorado. Then did a couple years in Rhode Island. After two years, maybe three in MASS there was significant bubbling in the wheel wells. I drove it through the local heated carwash (with the undercarriage sprayer) nearly every week. The salt is just brutal up here.  I have heard about etching and other coatings, but haven't looked into it that closely.

 

I sold the Forester, and am really missing the sound of a boxer. There are two nice ea81 cars in my sights.

 

Any and all input is much appreciated.

Thanks.

[BEECHBM69]

You already know the answer. 

 

There is no way to keep the salt from getting in places that you can't get it out, whether you wash it every week, or wash it every day. The metal used in older Japanese cars, particularly from the 80s (not Subaru specific) does not hold up to that type of environment. The way the cars were built with stamped steel layered and spot welded to make a more rigid piece is a prime place for salt to get, and rust to start.

 

There is no way around it. If you bring it up there, and drive it regularly in the salt, it's days will be numbered. Certainly your prerogative, but don't kid yourself into thinking it will end any other way.

 

Dan 

[GeneralDisorder]

If this were easily possible some fart smeller would have already made millions dontcha think?

 

You need a serious overhead wash rack and chemicals to strip salts.... which may be nearly as bad as the salts themselves. You can go with an oil-like treatment that attempts to prevent the salt from getting to the paint, etc. Amsoil Heavy Duty Metal Protectant is a dry wax coating that works well as an undercoat.

 

But ultimately.... If you intend to actually use it in the snow - no you can't save it. It's uni-body and once that junk gets in the pinch welds it will rot it from the inside out. It's metal - it can be repaired but eventually it will be more repair than original car. And patch panels for 80's Subarus are not likely to be produced. Custom, which means expensive.

 

GD

Edited December 24, 2017 by GeneralDisorder

[Jack in Norfolk]

Ugh...

 

When you're right you're right guys. Truth hurts I suppose. 

 

I once had a metallic avocado green 1976 Dodge Ramcharger with only 47k original miles on it. The top was white and the whole thing came off- all the way up to the windshield. This was when I lived in VA Beach. She already had rusty rockers. When we decided to move to Boston, I knew that truck was not coming with us. 70s Mopars might be the only thing that rusts out faster than Subies...

[moosens]

Jack , just get what you want and enjoy it and don’t cry so much at the end of the fun.

 

Tar , oil , all sorts of cheap and effective methods. My uncles 69 Ford pick up with full metal tool boxes and 60’s tubular steel ladder rack is still in very nice shape from his light oil treatments. Parked over dirt with light gravel.

 

So , it can be done with diligence.

 

My 78 was given Zeibart rust proofing - tar like - and worked really great. So that gave the car 35+ years here in salty CT.

Just this past year I’m finally giving up on it , but could still be kept alive.

It’s in the north east corner of CT if you’re curious.

 

I used mine hard during winters. Screw what anybody says. It’s yours. These vehicles were made for snow fun.

Edited December 24, 2017 by moosens

[DaveT]

Finnigan's Waxoyl helps.

 

Staying ahead of it helps - as in do not wait until you see bubbles in the paint.

 

I modified the tail ends of the front fenders and mudflaps -they are dirt and crap catchers as if they were designed to rot them out.

[Sapper 157]

In the aviation community, we use LPS-3, which is a spray on wax like stuff that prevents corrosion. CorrosionX is another good product, and has saved many rusting Cessnas by being fogged (sprayed as a dense vapor) into the wings... it makes an awful mess (it dries as a tacky goop) but it prevents current oxidation from getting any worse and prevents new corrosion from forming. Like anything in Aviation, both products are spendy, but it shouldn’t require much to do the wheel wells and underside of a small subie.

 

Wash it often.

[Jack in Norfolk]

Jack , just get what you want and enjoy it and don’t cry so much at the end of the fun.

 

Tar , oil , all sorts of cheap and effective methods. My uncles 69 Ford pick up with full metal tool boxes and 60’s tubular steel ladder rack is still in very nice shape from his light oil treatments. Parked over dirt with light gravel.

 

So , it can be done with diligence.

 

My 78 was given Zeibart rust proofing - tar like - and worked really great. So that gave the car 35+ years here in salty CT.

Just this past year I’m finally giving up on it , but could still be kept alive.

It’s in the north east corner of CT if you’re curious.

 

I used mine hard during winters. Screw what anybody says. It’s yours. These vehicles were made for snow fun.

Thanks Paul. You know me to well. I may stray at times, but there is a reason that I always come back to the Church of Subaru.

[idosubaru]

people comment regularly about spraying the underside of cars with used oil.  i'm not sure how the process works though - how, how much, how messy is it...etc.

 

find out what companies do that experience this routinely - UPS, post office, snow trucks...what do companies do that have millions to loose?  i realize some of it happens at the concept phase - design, development, engineering, manufacturing.  but does it end there?

 

if i had conditions like that i'd do the best i can - oil/treatments/washers - and still just run an Old gen and replace it once it's rusty.  what's the end goal: 

1. drive an older gen subaru?  (yay!)

or

2. drive the same subaru for 20+ years?

 

would be awesome to do both but if you had to pick one - most of us really want #1 when it comes down to it.  I get it, it would be nice to save them and not trash them and maybe the west coasters see it as automotive nostalgic massacre, that might be true. i guess i'm reckless and a terrible curator of history and nostalgia but cars are hunks of metal to me. there will be a handful of amazing XT6's in a few decades but reality is it won't be mine. i might as well get a reasonable XT6 and run it for 10 years instead of jackleg smoker kid getting it and wrecking it in 3. if i'm fortunate and end up driving the pyramid of giza on wheels then i'll do what i need to do to have a 2nd sacrificial winter vehicle.

[bratman2]

I wonder if you could find something like a larger tip for one of the electric-airless sprayers that could apply used motor oil. My 87 Brat I have owned for just over 20 years. We don't have the salt and harsh winters. We do have super humidity were everything sweats and drips at times. i also work at a major agro chemical complex that has ruined more vehicles than you would every believe. I have used canned spray lubes (CRC), old motor oil and a paint brush (pretty messy) and even tried a pump up yard sprayer but it keeped gtting the tip plugged. The Brat is still here and in decent shape (actually awesome maybe) for a 30 year old ride from the 80's. I ended up having to replace the sheet metal under the tailgate and the drip rails under the doors/ bottom of the body. 

 

I have since retired it from Ag Chemical plant drive to work duty maybe 6 years ago. Funny people ask me all the time, you still have that black Brat. Yep, just don't drive it out here anymore. 

Edited December 24, 2017 by bratman2

[Jack in Norfolk]

Jack , just get what you want and enjoy it and don’t cry so much at the end of the fun.

 

Tar , oil , all sorts of cheap and effective methods. My uncles 69 Ford pick up with full metal tool boxes and 60’s tubular steel ladder rack is still in very nice shape from his light oil treatments. Parked over dirt with light gravel.

 

So , it can be done with diligence.

 

My 78 was given Zeibart rust proofing - tar like - and worked really great. So that gave the car 35+ years here in salty CT.

Just this past year I’m finally giving up on it , but could still be kept alive.

It’s in the north east corner of CT if you’re curious.

 

I used mine hard during winters. Screw what anybody says. It’s yours. These vehicles were made for snow fun.

 

Was the ziebart applied when the car was new, or later on in its life?  I'm wondering if spraying the bottom of a car built in 1984 and expecting decent protection is a fool's errand. 

[franbev]

Besides parking my Brat for the winter here in Minnesota, I don't even drive it in the rain.

[Jack in Norfolk]

Besides parking my Brat for the winter here in Minnesota, I don't even drive it in the rain.

 

I don't blame you. That is a really nice brat!

[subyrally]

what about starting with a clean body and getting LineX coating sprayed under the chassis and wheel wells? that is what I am planning to do on my brat when I get the body fixed. partially to prevent rust, but also because I want to rally it and don't want to have to worry about gravel destroying the underside.

[Jack in Norfolk]

what about starting with a clean body and getting LineX coating sprayed under the chassis and wheel wells? that is what I am planning to do on my brat when I get the body fixed. partially to prevent rust, but also because I want to rally it and don't want to have to worry about gravel destroying the underside.

 

Not a bad idea. I guess I just always worry about sealing in existing rust with something as permanent and concealing as Line X. I understand your premise of starting with something clean, but living in salty environments, I guess I'm a little hyper sensitive about the possibility of oxidation that I may have overlooked on a "clean" 22 year old car.

In other words, your idea is a good one, I am just kind of psycho about rust because of previous experiences.

[Numbchux]

Nothing will stop it completely, but there are things that can be done to slow it down.

 

I have an '87 4Runner, it saw 10 years or so in Minnesota, then out to Colorado for another 10ish, and back here where I've owned it for 11, and I've never used it in the winter. So it's in good shape, but still has some rust.

 

I've fought it with an angle grinder (with a combination of grinding wheels, flap discs, and wire wheels) to at least get the loose stuff off, if not down to bare metal, POR15, and bedliner. Probably about 6 years ago, I did the lower half of the body and new rear tube bumper, bare metal spots with POR15 first, and then topcoated with DupliColor roll-on bedliner.

 

Last summer, I did the frame. Wire wheel, then POR15 with a Harbor Freight HVLP gun. Worked great!

 

20170708_153237 by Numbchux, on Flickr

 

 

I've since been turned onto a more temporary product called Fluid Film. Which is sort of a waxy coating that would also help seal things out, but it would have to be reapplied at least annually. I might do all 3 on my XT6 this summer.

[Numbchux]

Nothing will stop it completely, but there are things that can be done to slow it down.

 

I have an '87 4Runner, it saw 10 years or so in Minnesota, then out to Colorado for another 10ish, and back here where I've owned it for 11, and I've never used it in the winter. So it's in good shape, but still has some rust.

 

I've fought it with an angle grinder (with a combination of grinding wheels, flap discs, and wire wheels) to at least get the loose stuff off, if not down to bare metal, POR15, and bedliner. Probably about 6 years ago, I did the lower half of the body and new rear tube bumper, bare metal spots with POR15 first, and then topcoated with DupliColor roll-on bedliner.

 

Last summer, I did the frame. Wire wheel, then POR15 with a Harbor Freight HVLP gun. Worked great!

 

20170708_153237 by Numbchux, on Flickr

 

 

I've since been turned onto a more temporary product called Fluid Film. Which is sort of a waxy coating that would also help seal things out, but it would have to be reapplied at least annually. I might do all 3 on my XT6 this summer.

[idosubaru]

How do people apply oil?

 

Is it as simple as keeping a bunch of used Oil and spraying it?

 

What do you spray it with?

 

Park it over cardboard for a day or so, so it doesn’t drip on the driveway?

 

Do you remove rotors and pads before spraying?

[DaveT]

One of the parts of where the rust comes from is the inside of the panels and rockers and layers of sheet metal.  You have to  get something in there also.  My choice is something like Waxoyl or the similar stuff mentioned.  It soaks in and stops the rust that is there, and stays waxy for a very long time.  I've seen some of the products that harden eventually separate from the paint / metal and become dirt and moisture traps - not good.

 

Oil is effective but messy and needs frequent application.  And there is the whole ordeal of getting into those hidden areas over and over.  I know it can help due to one car I had long ago that leaked oil on one side.  That side stayed in far better condition than the other side.

[idosubaru]

"frequent application" - does that mean once per winter, month, or week?

 

yeah those rear folds and multi-overlapped layers in the panels are crazy - i dont' know how anyone addresses, cuts, POR15's or otherwise addresses those. they're crazy and seem to start in places that are unreachable.

Edited March 10, 2018 by idosubaru

[moosens]

Hand pump Sprayer unless you have air equipment , protect the driveway , you’ll likely find videos online or at least more mention in forums.

I always heard that a light machine oil is best over the used motor oil. But do research.

 

Have to repair your wheel aprons all the way up top at the horizontal seam. All crud builds up there and created the pinholes that carry that water down to your wheel arches and the rear door area , and sills.

To get real about it you want the rear wheels off and maybe even have to drop the suspension to be able to get in there well enough.

 

But that kind of effort pays off. Neglecting that is saying you’re not willing to go the full measure to protect your little beauty.

[DaveT]

I apply the Waxoyl by removing the interior plastic .  The kit comes with a gun and a tube for reaching into difficult places.  I don't use POR 15 unless I know I can get the bad area completely encased / covered.  It's great stuff, but if you  leave an exposed / compromised area, rust starts there and works its way underneath.

 

Waxoyl is thinner, and continues to creep into places for a long time.

[Subaru Scott]

I worked at Ziebart many years ago. That stuff worked pretty good if it was applied correctly to brand-new American cars.

 

European, and especially Japanese cars that spent an ocean voyage through salty sea air, not so much. 

 

If you cover any active corrosion with a "barrier" type coating, it usually just makes it worse. 

 

I used to do the used oil spray with an old fire extinguisher that I installed a tire valve on, and used a long piece of brake tubing with a pinched end that made a fan-spray. I drilled holes into the rockers, door bottoms, and other closed areas, and kept Ziebart plugs in. Tried to get a spray in once a year when I lived in the salt belt.

 

But the used oil is pretty stinky... even though it's a fine way to recycle, I just started using cheap, new oil.

 

Now that I've been working on boats for awhile, I've been turned on to CRC 6-56. Guys have been using it for years here in the saltwater environment to keep corrosion down on marine engines and metals. It is available in spray and gallon cans. Does a great job! I can spray it on the tilt-trim mechanisms on my outboards, (a sensitive area prone to corrosion because of all the small parts/edges that are constantly exposed to turbulent saltwater) and the water will bead on it for months!

 

And it smells way better than used oil.

[Rust]

New England = No hope

 

Just embrace it, as you bounce down the road peppering the blacktop with sparkling flakes of your car.

 

Subaru = Spread the Love

[moosens]

Agree and disagree a little , but in general proper advice , thanks.

Scott - my 78 Subaru wagon survived up here in CT by the salt water - Zeibart , done correctly.

 

Pete - same as above.

 

Not much hope , but there is some. Just learn to enjoy using it like the tool that it is. Romp in the snow. Howl at the moon. Maybe stuff happens and you get another one from out west.