88 GL 10 T- 2.2 L swap, hoping to run Microsquirt

[Steve W.]

Hi folks. I did a 2.2 swap on my 88 GL 10T a few years ago, and even with help from you guys and in particular, Josh, I never did get it running right. It's been sittin in the way in my shop since. Recently I ought a Microsquirt V.3 and supporting sensors, and I'm about ready to pull the trigger on the install. I've been searching forums at M.S., Legy Cntrl., and here, and so far haven't found a thread that runs to fruition. Can anybody aim me in the right direction? Thanks much. Steve.

[GeneralDisorder]

I was never able to get MS to recognize the Subaru cam and crank triggers and sync correctly. We found a better solution that retains factory knock control so gave up on MS. Check out Enduring Solutions in the UK. They make a sweet EPROM simulator board for the early WRX ECU's which are pin compatible with the 90-94 Legacy USDM harness. Gives you all the benefits of real time emulation tuning on factory hardware. Correctly tuned knock control is essential on a Subaru as they make no power without a $hit ton of timing and if you detonate them you will pound the bearings right out. Not worth the risk. 

 

GD

Edited December 26, 2017 by GeneralDisorder

[Gloyale]

what ECU/harness are you trying to run?

 

Setting up the Factory harness is pretty easy.  Bet you just missed something simple.

[jono]

yet another exhibit for the "I'm not gonna EJ it thankyou" discussion

 

I can see this happening to me if I did one !

 

I recall some time back sccess being with an Australian designed aftermarket ECU using the EA82 optical, but that is no good to you with your MS

[Steve W.]

Hey GD. I took a look at the ESL, promising. Is this what your running? Not sure I'm electronics savey enough to do the board install, but I see they offer the service. About the same money as the M.S. I think. So, I could send them my ECU, get it back and plug it in? Still have to tune. Thanks. S..

[Steve W.]

 

Gloyal,I started with a 93 Legy SS turbo donor car. Had the GL up and running, but couldn't get the AFRs dialed in. Wanted to run rich on decel, and lean under boost. Ivan insisted that he'd had nothing but trouble with the turbo harness and ECU, and I'd be ahead running a N A set up and adding boost controls back. Tore it all out and went with a N A set up. Never got it to run right with this configuration either. I've seen some success stories at M.S.forum. Some have had good results with running crank sensor only, say cam sensor confuses the squirt. Also, some have been changing the 6/7 wheel to the later (36-6-6-6?) wheel. I can add a knock sensor module. Still not sure which way to go. Tried to bring up my old build thread, but failed. Thanks guys. S..

[el_freddo]

yet another exhibit for the "I'm not gonna EJ it thankyou" discussion

 

I can see this happening to me if I did one !

 

I recall some time back sccess being with an Australian designed aftermarket ECU using the EA82 optical, but that is no good to you with your MS

 

It's a piece of piss Jono.  Mine's been running without issue other than the usual servicing requirements for 8 years - it's been well abused beyond what any EA could take in that time! 

 

Worth the effort but I do believe in factory management.

 

Steve, what I don't understand is how it's running factory management and not running right.  Something must have been missed - different timing marks on the cam wheel for the cam angle sensor for the turbo variant?  Sounds like something's not running right - like an injector isn't healthy, or the TPS isn't dialed in properly.  Could be many things :/

 

Personally I think aftermarket management will only over complicate things.

 

Cheers

 

Bennie

[Steve W.]

Hi Bennie. It ran strong with the original harness and ECU, but the AFRs seemed to be backwards. Josh worked with me for months, I replaced the ECU, MAF,TPS, most everything there. Tested all the routing and connections, all the sensors showed proper values. After switching to the NA set up, it would fire up instantly, rev and idle smoothly, and die. Good fuel pres., spark, great vac. 45 seconds or so and it shut off, cycle the pump and away it would go. Well, that's when we bought this new property and that project went on hold. I gotta tell ya, I've lost my enchantment with the stock system. GDs Enduring Solutions looks like it might hold promise. Thanks Bennie. Steve.

[idosubaru]

"ran strong" - maybe the engine and engine management were fine?

"AFR's backwards"? could it have been monitoring/feedback related only and nothing to do with the engine/engine management?

 

if the issue was impossible to diagnose did you test all the mechanicals - FPR, compression, leak down, valves, timing components...?

 

does this other system have great support for completing your project?  once you get a distaste it's understandable to want to scrap it all and move on, though if the original wiring wasn't installed correctly and couldn't be diagnosed, I might hesitate to install a system with less public support. 

[Numbchux]

Megasquirt is powerful, but very much open-source. That brings along a lot of challenges.

 

There are a few different injection and ignition methods, and they have different requirements for sensors. With batch fire/wasted spark, it can be done with just a fairly low-resolution crank trigger. For full sequential, you'll need much better signals. There's a guy here in MN setting up an EG33 on MS, and while the stock trigger wheels give enough resolution, the stock sensors themselves are not reliable enough, and he was getting nasty sync loss. So he made custom adapter brackets to mount aftermarket hall effect sensors in the stock positions to improve the reliability so he can run reliable sequential injection/ignition. Then come the turbos....

 

 

Run something commercially developed, and you'll have much more support, and more consistent information (Open source means you're searching the whole of the internet for build threads and write-ups, and some of it is current and most of it isn't...). You'll pay 2-6x as much, but it'll be much easier to work with.

[GeneralDisorder]

Hey GD. I took a look at the ESL, promising. Is this what your running? Not sure I'm electronics savey enough to do the board install, but I see they offer the service. About the same money as the M.S. I think. So, I could send them my ECU, get it back and plug it in? Still have to tune. Thanks. S..

 

The ECU board install is super easy. 

 

And yes we have three of them running and there are others in the US. It's absolutely the best option for tuning the early cars. Like I said - Megasquirt will just end in either frustration and never getting it to run, or a rod bearing failure when you pound the bottom end to death with poor knock control. 

 

GD

Edited December 27, 2017 by GeneralDisorder

[jono]

Can you dumb it all down on the inputs to the ecu?

 

Might mean borrow a few DMMs

 

Surely, a DMM hooked up (hard wired) to monitor O2 sensor on the Volt scale

 

another to measure TPsensor Voltage

 

another to monitor CTS Ohms

 

Any sensor that sends Ohms can be manually adjusted with a resistor or resistor wheel as you drive ( passenger please!)

I guess small Volts can be as well

 

see if you can alter it on the go ?

 

what level of device were you measuring AFRs - tail pipe or pre or post cat O2 sensor of vehicle?

 

I was testing a tail pipe set up and wanted to keep the cat converter out of the equation so plugged tail pipe wideband in post turbo - sent the readings crazy, all over the place. Put it back at the tail pipe, any hard faced EPA inspector would be all smiles.

 

Too rich visuals would be black tail pipe clouds - did you get that when AFR said rich? Did it wet yer plugs?

 

To lean would have bogged down and probably come good as you took foot off GO pedal a little.

 

Drive it enough to get a fuel economy to tell us?

[Steve W.]

Hi Guys. Ido, this is a fresh engine, compression great, don't think it was any mechanical issue. Not sure yet about M S support, I'm just fishin at this point. I haven't even broken the Microsquirt out of the packaging yet. Hopefully they'll take it back if I go another route. M S is set up to use G M sensors, and I got them with the unit. IAC, MAP, CTS. I'm running an Innovative MTX-L wide band, down stream from the turbo. I might need to pick your brain a little GD. Thanks guys. S..

[idosubaru]

Not sure yet about M S support, I'm just fishin at this point.

Actually, I meant the opposite. I was asking meaning: “10 years of history clearly show there is none” for MS but there’s countless success stories, follow through, and data for an EJ swap or GDs option, not MS. If trouble shooting the more popular, easier, successful, and widely known option is problematic then it would be poor advise to move to a lesser option.

 

Run something commercially developed, and you'll have much more support, and more consistent information (Open source means you're searching the whole of the internet for build threads and write-ups, and some of it is current and most of it isn't...). You'll pay 2-6x as much, but it'll be much easier to work with.

[Steve W.]

Hi guys, I'm back. I was able to return the Micro squirt, so now I'm thinking I will look at the Enduring Solutions route that G.D. mentioned. Anyone offer advise? Pointers? I'd sure love to get my ol GL back on the road. Thanks folks. Steve.

[GeneralDisorder]

Get it running on the stock computer, then switch to the ESL system after you know it runs. 

 

GD