1985 GL Unusual Heater and climate control issues.

[JustThatGuy]

So first post and all, gonna try my best to not step on too many toes, thus I apologize in advance for any faux pas.

 

Well to start I’ll state that this wagon has sat for well over 10 years, had water in the cooling system, gas left in the fuel lines, and amongst myriads of problems not been run or driven. Amongst these issues are that the blower doesn’t work, kinda, and I don’t have heat or A/C, well, till today.

 

I just started the wagon as usual, except the rpms which normally idle at 1200-1400 (trying to figure this out too) dropped to 500 and there was a loud click from within the dash and suddenly the blower motor turned on. Interestingly it doesn’t turn after this first time. More so, whilst it was running I was estatic to find that the heater core was good and I was able to get heat, along with all 4 fan speeds. Fast forward 7hours. I went for lunch and upon starting the car for the first time after the blower suddenly worked, it no longer does. And after getting food and coming up to the wagon there is a large pool of coolant under it, figures...

 

After returning from lunch I open my hood to find coolant sprayed across nearly everything. The source is, so far as I can discern, the manifold that connects to the heater core is spraying a jet of coolant onto the torque converter, thus spraying it across the engine bay and creating the large pool of fluid.For more specifics refer to pictures. Also as of taking these photos it has become twice as bad, rather 2 jets instead of 1.

 

 

What I cannot figure out is threefold:

1- what part this actually is, as the number is covered by the intake, thus I cannot search it

2- if it’s removable without too much headache

3- why the blower motor suddenly works after 3 months and then just as suddenly doesn’t, yet the heater and A/C controls after an equal amount of time not working, are still working

[DaveT]

Pretty much any car left to sit, especially outdoors, for that long is going to need a lot of general maintenance type things and intermittent problems.

 

All 7 coolant hoses are probably long overdue for replacement due to age. Lots of electrical connections that may be corroded and intermittent.

 

Damage from mice would not be a surprise.

[Gloyale]

 If it's spraying out of the metal intake then you need a new one.  Or you need t pull it off and JB weld the heck out whatever is leaking.

 

My guess is a rusted out part of the steel tube, or a casting plug (freeze plug)

[JustThatGuy]

Pretty much any car left to sit, especially outdoors, for that long is going to need a lot of general maintenance type things and intermittent problems.

All 7 coolant hoses are probably long overdue for replacement due to age. Lots of electrical connections that may be corroded and intermittent.

Damage from mice would not be a surprise.

  

 

Thankfully I have not found any evidence of critters in the car, engine bay or passenger compartment. As for coolant hoses Ive done 4, I did not know there was 7, Ive replaced the radiator upper and lower, and the heater core hoses, and the two lines coming off the top of the thermostat housing (which I think are vacuum lines?). As well as all the rubber fuel lines. And I noticed the corroded electrical on most everything. Light switch, turn signal, map lights, and dome light to name a few. The plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and distrubtor (yes the whole distributor) have been replace because of said corrosion. Ive already done a coolant flush and done a rust removal additive and a flush following that. Oil and original gas have been drained. ATF not yet, but was planning on doing it soon. Also brakes and rotors are on the list, tires are already replaced, as the ones it had were both dry rotted horrendously and had flat spots from where it sat. Also holy sh*t it was a pain to find tires, I had to have them shipped in from the UK.

 

 If it's spraying out of the metal intake then you need a new one.  Or you need t pull it off and JB weld the heck out whatever is leaking.

 

My guess is a rusted out part of the steel tube, or a casting plug (freeze plug)

Thankfully it appears to be an expansion plug that its leaking out of, but again, I have no idea what that part the plug is in, or how to remove it. I think there are four bolts on it, but the turbo, and return heater core line seem to be in the way of me just removing the four bolts and the manifold like object.

 

Also after having driving it home the leak has become so bad it emptied my cooling system. Impressively prior to this leak this engine doesnt seem to be in too bad shape. It doesnt burn oil, it doesnt lose coolant (till now) and the transmission doesnt leak. The power steering has like 3 leak points, but I have the parts. Im just waiting till spring time.

[DaveT]

You didn't mention turbo. SPFI has 7 coolant hoses.

 

I don't know the turbo well.

 

The spfi has a small one under the thermostat, and another behind the throttle body. Also, there is a short L shaped one from the water pump to the steel line that goes back toward one of the heater hoses. Turbo may have similar, check the fsm.

[JustThatGuy]

You didn't mention turbo. SPFI has 7 coolant hoses.

I don't know the turbo well.

The spfi has a small one under the thermostat, and another behind the throttle body. Also, there is a short L shaped one from the water pump to the steel line that goes back toward one of the heater hoses. Turbo may have similar, check the fsm.

You have intrigued me. I will look for those later as Im guessing those are well hidden as Ihave never noticed them. Also fsm? Factory Service Manual I take it? I have a Haynes from 94' for 1600-1800 that a coworker gave me, is that sufficient or is there a better one to get? Edited December 29, 2017 by JustThatGuy

[DaveT]

A real Factory Service Manual is the best.  I've had Chilton's, but haven't seen a Hayne's.  The Chilton's was handy helping figure out what parts were interchangeable across years, but the FSM kicked it's butt for details.

 

The FSMs I have I bought new from the dealers, when the cars were a couple years old.  Now you have to watch ebay and the forum to see when one goes up for sale.

 

Or if you find a link to an online / upload someone did.

Edited December 29, 2017 by DaveT

[Gloyale]

  

 

 

 

Thankfully it appears to be an expansion plug that its leaking out of, but again, I have no idea what that part the plug is in, or how to remove it. I think there are four bolts on it, but the turbo, and return heater core line seem to be in the way of me just removing the four bolts and the manifold like object.

 

 

 

that pipe is part of the intake system.  You must remove the intake to acess that port.  Or dry it and JB weld over it may be the better option if you don't want to start disassembling the engine.

[JustThatGuy]

A real Factory Service Manual is the best.  I've had Chilton's, but haven't seen a Hayne's.  The Chilton's was handy helping figure out what parts were interchangeable across years, but the FSM kicked it's butt for details.

 

The FSMs I have I bought new from the dealers, when the cars were a couple years old.  Now you have to watch ebay and the forum to see when one goes up for sale.

 

Or if you find a link to an online / upload someone did.

  

 

If I see one Ill snag it.

 

 

that pipe is part of the intake system.  You must remove the intake to acess that port.  Or dry it and JB weld over it may be the better option if you don't want to start disassembling the engine.

I got 3 cars. This is "My Summer Car" if you will. Im not afraid to pull the engine and drop another in. Id prefer not to, but eh, If I gotta I gotta. If the intake needs to come off then I'll clean it, under it, around it, replace a leaking injector, replace the knock sensor, install a knock sensor plug(it was mia when I got it not like it needs it to run) replace the throttle cable and probably replace all the vacuum lines. That too will have to wait till the weather warms though. So looks like the spring is going to be a busy time. Rotors, rack and pinion, ball joints, front cvs, intake and headlight wiring. Gonna be a fun time, fun fun fun.

 

Thanks for the help. This thread will probably revive in april or march of '18.

[jono]

In one of my Subes of that era I bought knowing it had been diagnosed with a blown head gasket. Head gaskets were fine. It was the nine other water/coolant leaks that took some time to sort out. There are 10mm and 12mm plugs in the water log section of the inlet manifold and air side of it as well, One plug loks to be water but is air or hot air, from back drilling of EGR path during manufacture I think

 

I also missed your turbo classification. The banjo bolts in the turbo core rust out, so too the hard line from thermostat housing, and the one from coolant drain plug spot on turbo side head.. The throttle body also has much corroded pipes to connect hoses to that can leak. You can drill them out, tap to 27 or 28 tpi taper and fit brass male barbs if needed or bypass depending on how cold Boulder gets

 

And as others have said it needs some attention and time to tinker to resolve stuff. I bought a set of factory manuals for what an auto elec would have charged me an hours labour. These manuals have saved me big time..

 

When you get in there to fix or tinker you will be able to tell us what you found

[Twitch de la Brat]

There are coolant lines that run to the turbo. Replace all of those now, as they will look like a James Bond stunt when they pop, and then your engine won't like you any more.

They're 10mm if I remember correctly, and route through some very tedious locations. You might even need a lift to replace them.

Also, if it hasn't been mentioned, factory turbo cars are MPFI, not TBI or SPFI.

 

As for the heater problems, it seems that you may need to disassemble the heater switch part of the dash and do a little brass brushing on some contacts.

 

Hope you can get it to stay running.

 

Twitch

[JustThatGuy]

Alright so!
My hand was forced and unfortunately due to recent events I have sold one of my
cars, and yesterday I bent an axel on my Bronco, so I have no vehicles that I
can use. Thus I have tore into the Wagon and attempted a fix of the freeze plug
on this manifold.

 

So step one, I removed the top aluminum bridge from turbo to throttle body, followed by the
vacuum tube on the bottom, then the vacuum tubes from the tops of the valve
covers, rear vacuum tube, and the plastic vacuum manifold (which exploded
despite my tenderness while I tried to remove it), then the knock sensor then
the right angle off the turbo, then 3 misc vacuum tubes on the left center and
right of the intake respectively, then the throttle cable, and then the
transmission bracket that the throttle cable is mounted on. After that I
removed the 4 bolts, well 3 of 4 the fourth was too long to remove.

 

Well to be fair I dont think this manifold was meant to be removed without taking off the
whole intake. Speaking of, I had to remove the weird exhaust vacuum device next
to the distributor, and take out all 7 intake bolts. From here I used a pry bar
and a little elbow grease to push the manifold over the heater return on the
right side then wiggle and turn and pull, rock and yank before getting a
coolant port over a throttle body port and under the transmission mount before
it came out. The problem is I dont exactly know what I did to get it out as I
was essentially just pushing the intake and angrily tugging/shaking this
manifold. It did come out, and turns out putting it in is easier than taking it
out. Logic.

 

Moving on!
upon removal I investigated the leak, this freeze plug:

 

That stupid little hole was the the entire catalyst for this repair. freaking amazing. So I
drilled the corroded plug out which came out in one piece surprisingly:

I then tapped it with, a tap that just happen to be the size of the hole, a 1/2 x 12.
Grabbed a bolt cut it to roughly a half inch with some change then RTV'd the
crap out of it and its threads

 

I then cleaned the gaskets off, hashed the surfaces, and cleaned the manifold, both
inside and out.

 

Now I began reassembly, getting the manifold past the transmission mount proved to be more
shoving the intake around to get it to fit, which when it did it literally just
dropped right past everything I fought to get it out. Figures.

 

And here if you look top right you can barely make out how f*cked the out/in to the heater
core is from having water in it for 20 years. It literally rusted the mushroom
ends off the tubes, 10/10.

[JustThatGuy]

So continuing from above: from here I applied RTV to both ends of
the manifold then flexed the intake around some more, and yet again it was
easier to get in than out (eyeroll). Also it should be noted that bolt in the
first picture needs to be in the manifold BEFORE the manifold is dropped in. I
luckily remembered as I was just starting to try to get the manifold in, so a
little packing tape later and it aint goin nowhere. After this point I
reinstalled the 3 remaining bolts and tightened them up, probably past whatever
torque speq they require, eh.

 

I started reassembly just before taking this ^ so you can see the vacuum valve I mentioned
earlier at bottom left. From here it was a matter of put all the bolts and
undamaged usable parts back in reverse order of removal. I got almost
entirely done, leaving off the aluminum bridge due to having broken the little
plastic 3 way vacuum device to the left of the knock sensor, which yes I know
its missing the plug, Im going to correct that tomorrow, after hitting up Erie
Auto Salvage for all the broken parts off a 86 turbo sedan they have. Im also
going to pull that engine later on to have parts, but first I need a vehicle
for work.

 

The following are the casualties of 33 years of being in the Arizona heat.

R.I.P. Original parts.

 

I havent yet filled the system so I'll see how it hold tomorrow after full reassembly so
the car can run. So update will be later on to finish this post off.

Edited February 23, 2018 by JustThatGuy

[JustThatGuy]

Ok so day after I posted that^ I filled it, and shocker it leaked like never before. Welp I totally misunderstood how the cooling portion of the intake works, and by breaking the intake free I broke the seals on the the passenger and driver coolant channels. Round of applause for my idiocy. So I did end up removing the entire intake and RTVing every gasket surface, which after removing the intake, the whole process I went through to remove the channel was only short a few steps of the intake removal process, so I basically did it twice and made more work for myself by trying to just fix that single channel. Well lesson learned. After reassembly the second time leak free, and runs fine. So hey that’s fixed. Not only that but the blower motor is now turning on during the warm part of the day, and semi consistently at that, but not at night when I’d like it to be on, so that’s interesting. Also the relay for it freaked out on Sunday, like it was actuating as fast as it feasibly could, for a good 2minutes before it just stayed in the on position allowing the heating system to run. But hey more importantly, after 21years off the road, it passed emissions here! So hurray! It was dirtier than my Bronco, but a pass is a pass.

 

IT LIVES AGAIN!