Weird squeal when disengaging clutch under load

[DaveT]

Wrist pin plugs open to the crank case, not a coolant passage.

[el_freddo]

Are you sure the coolant isn't running down from somewhere higher up on the engine such as the heater crossover pipes?

 

Coolant may be running then hanging on the bottom of that gudgeon pin plug where it is either seen or leaves a distinctive mark.

 

Cheers

 

Bennie

[Nickoli]

That's what I thought after reading up on them. Seems like if there was enough coolant in there to weep out, I would have some major issues. I know it was coming from the head drain plug and settling on the gudgeon, but I fixed that. Now it's still accumulating there slightly.

 

The way it's mixing with the oil on the threads of the gudgeon really makes it look like it's coming from there, but glad to know that's basically impossible. Time to track the leak...

 

There's also a tiny tiny bit of coolant accumulating on what seems to be the bottom of gasket that I'm pretty sure is the drivers side head gasket. Slightly to the right--when facing the engine--of the water pump. Seems to be starting there with no visible white evap line leading anywhere else, and no wetness tracing it to the water pump. Although that too seems unlikely. I haven't lost any noticeable amount of coolant in 500 miles, so the leak is very small, but I think it could contribute to introducing air to the system.

 

I cleaned everything up good tonight and will try to get some pictures tomorrow. She's slated for a 1k mile road trip this weekend. I'd love to nail these down before then, but they're not big enough to worry me even if I don't.

[DaveT]

Yes, the gasket just to the right of the water pump is a head gasket.

 

The slow seep may also let in air. It will slowly get worse over time.

 

It may also have started from running over normal temperature while low on coolant - which also eventually causes the head gasket to fail allowing combustion  gasses into the cooling system.

 

Time will tell.  Just keep a close watch on the coolant levels and air quantity in the upper hose.

[Nickoli]

True. I read a few old posts by GD that said he has basically never seen an EA82 headgasket leak externally. Hoping that's the case and it's just running from somewhere else and settling on the gasket.

 

Time will tell!

[Nickoli]

Also, this may seem like a dumb question, but how exactly can I tell how much air is in the upper hose?

 

Should it be very firm before startup in the morning and any amount of give in the hose is air? I can always hear the jiggle pin, but I think that would be true even if there's no air.

[DaveT]

When cold. Sharply squeeze the upper hose. If there is air, you will hear it gurgle, in addition to the giggle pin. Its ok if there is a little air. The real thing to watch for is change in the amount. Increasing is not good. Also, this will let you catch it hopefully before an over normal temperature while low on coolant situation. Sometimes I have seen the recovery tank stay in its normal range, but way too much air in the system.

[Nickoli]

Alright, maybe I should start a new thread, but I'll just continue here for now.

 

All of this searching for a coolant leak started because after I pulled the engine and did the clutch, it got warm on the interstate on the return leg of a 200 mile trip. Just barely above half on the gauge, when it normally sits at half. It was perfect on the first leg of the trip, so I figured there were air bubbles in there since I had just opened the system. I pulled off at the next exit to check things out and it immediately returned to just below halfway. The next 20 miles home it seemed just slightly warm, but never got too much hotter than normal. I figured the bubble moved on when I reduced speed. I also cleaned the terminal and the plug on the temp sending unit by the thermostat just incase. This warmer on the interstate incident was this past Sunday.

 

The past few days I have been parking it with the nose in the air and letting it cool with the overflow full hoping that would get any bubbles out, but to make sure, tonight I used a Lisle no spill funnel to burp the system good. Idled until the thermostat opened, no bubbles. Ran it at ~2000 rpm for like 20 mins, no bubbles. Not a single one. It also hasn't lost a visible amount of coolant in the radiator or the overflow in 500 miles.

 

I've been carpooling to work this week, but I'll find out tomorrow on my way to work if it's still getting warm on the interstate or not. If it does, I'm not really sure what it could be.

 

The radiator is new, less than a year old. No cold spots to the touch, but I haven't used a laser thermometer. The thermostat is OEM just over a year old, but I guess it could be sticking. The water pump is less than a year old, Aisin brand. All three of those seem unlikely to be the issue, but definitely could I suppose. The water pump pulley is immovable on the v belt, so I really don't think it could be slipping.

 

Would a small head gasket leak have shown up as bubbles in the coolant when I was running it tonight, or maybe it would only show up over extended 3500 rpm runs on the interstate? I figured I would've seen at least a small bubble every now and again after almost 20 mins of running it with the funnel on. It absolutely never runs hot around town or at idle. Rarely even gets to halfway on the gauge.

 

What else would cause a uncomfortably warm on the interstate situation? It's not like I was fully loaded climbing a mountain pass. I'm down in Florida now, and it was night time. Hopefully it was a bubble and now it is gone.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Nickoli

[Nickoli]

When cold. Sharply squeeze the upper hose. If there is air, you will hear it gurgle, in addition to the giggle pin. Its ok if there is a little air. The real thing to watch for is change in the amount. Increasing is not good. Also, this will let you catch it hopefully before an over normal temperature while low on coolant situation. Sometimes I have seen the recovery tank stay in its normal range, but way too much air in the system.

 

Thanks Dave. I'll check every morning before startup and see what happens. No audible gurgle this morning.

[Nickoli]

Running at 70mph and 3500 rpms on the interstate an it got warmer than half after about 10 mins, but then dropped back to half for the rest of the 20 min trip.

 

I'm thinking maybe this oem thermostat is stuck halfway open or something?

 

I also noticed that the upper hose gets pretty warm quite a bit before the thermostat is supposed to open. The jiggle pin shouldn't let that much coolant through should it?

[DaveT]

The jiggle pin hole is very small.  Heat gets conducted and  convection also.  Kind of normal for it to get hot even before the thermostat opens.  There is a small coolant hose on the bottom thermostat housing that allows some coolant to move while the thermostat is closed.

 

The higher then lower temperature thing...  Might be good to pull the thermostat and test it.  A heat gun carefully - to not over cook it, or a pot on a stove top with water.  Watch how it opens while the temperature rises.  Should be smooth.

 

The other thing I have seen cause that kind of warmer than normal then settle type thing, is when all the air wasn't purged.  When ever I open the cooling system and partially drain it, I refill as much as possible, then idle until the thermostat opens, and make sure all the air is out. Rev the engine a few times , etc.  

one of those funnels that attach to the radiator cap and hold almost a quart of coolant help a lot.  Don't do this purge by driving.

 

The way the water pump is situated, it is possible for air to collect in the housing while the thermostat is closed, because low flow rate.  Water pumps do not pump air well.  When the pump stops pumping, the heads get over normal temperature. It may not be completely stopped, but much lower than normal, depending on how much air vs coolant.   Eventually, the heat makes it to the thermostat and it opens.  Water shifts, etc. pump catches enough, and coolant flows, pushing the air out.  The air is no separated in the radiator, but the heads have been overheated a bit.
 

[Nickoli]

I got on a really steep hill the other day an got a handful of stubborn bubbles out with one of those funnels. Still kinda got warm at 70mph until I had an epiphany reading some old threads.

 

I removed this light bar I had on under the bumper that I thought was not blocking airflow significantly...apparently it was. Drove it 500 miles of interstate at 70mph to North Carolina yesterday through 90+ degrees and it never even reached halfway. Not sure why it took so long to cause an issue because I put that light on there last year, but I'm absolutely thrilled.

 

No bubbles, no airflow blockage. I also think the "leak" I saw on the heads was coolant that got trapped in a channel during the engine removal or something, because it hasn't showN up since. Success!

[Nickoli]

Thanks for everyone's help! Running like a champion again.

[el_freddo]

Winning!

 

Extending the bash plate outwards and blocking all the holes will also help with drawing air through the radiator too.

 

Something I'm still aiming to do - and have "proof" that it works after our trans continent trip in 2016 during the peak of our summer.

 

Cheers

 

Bennie

[Nickoli]

One last--hopefully--update on this situation. After cooling down when we arrived in NC, I noticed wetness on the carb base gasket and the thermostat housing gasket. On the 500 mile drive back down to Florida it settled in at about halfway on the gauge, but slightly hotter than it was on the first leg of the trip. I figured some air got in the system. Then it started raining and I turned my headlights on, gauge went over halfway just a little, headlights off, back to half, headlights on, over half. Interesting.

 

We made it back to FL with no issues, and I started to think about adding an aftermarket gauge so I could trust the temp a little better. Continued to run hotter with the headlights on, so I started investigating grounds and cleaning contacts. I also kept seeing a small amount of seepage at the carb base and on the thermo housing, so fixing those became priority.

 

Yesterday I took the afternoon to drain the system and address those leaks. Head a small issue when one of the carb stud nuts was stripped and wouldn't come off. Drilled it, cut it, and ran to the parts store. They didn't have any stud that size available so I bought a bolt of the correct thread and cut it down to fit.

 

Ditched the gaskets all together and used anaerobic sealant instead--that stuff is awesome. Also went ahead and put a new Stant XACT thermostat in that I watched open smoothly and fully in boiling water. The old one was OEM, but I had suspicions it wasn't opening fully or on time. Also pulled the gauge water temp sensor and shined it up. The brass was basically black. Cleaned the contact good as well.

 

Got it all burped with one of those no spill funnels--which are also awesome--and got on the highway. The gauge never changed readings between city/highway like it normally does, and it sat firmly at about 1/4 of the way up from cold. Drove it hard and it never moved. Hopefully that is finally solved now. Going to watch the coolant level carefully over the next few drives and make sure there are no more leaks. I think there were multiple issues going on, but it seems as if they are all fixed.

 

Thanks again to all the info and people here!

[Gloyale]

Ditched the gaskets all together and used anaerobic sealant instead--that stuff is awesome. 

 

If you mean at the carb base you are in big trouble.

Being in contact with gasoline will eat that sealant.

 

Take it off right away and get some gaskets.  Or make some.  

 

Sealant will ABSOLUTELY not hold in that application for more than a few trips.  Then you will spew coolant out the base and overheat.  It cold puke into the intake and hydrolock the engine on startup too.  Lot's of ways for things to go bad here.

[Nickoli]

You scared me there, but I looked up the permatex anaerobic data sheet and it's solvent resistance. https://441py33rout1ptjxn2lupv31-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/tech_docs/tds/51813.pdf

 

It says after 500 hours exposed to coolant and gasoline, it retains 65% and 70% of it's initial strength. Seems good enough for me.

 

I couldn't get the JB weld to completely block the coolant passage under the carb, even putting a stud in the line some still gets through from somewhere. Paper gasket coated with shellac lasted over a year and like 10,000 miles, but eventually coolant was seeping out of the base.