xdeadeye1 Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) ok I'm confused too after trying to decipher that.. do I go ahead and order the TKF-001 I'm looking at this kit. https://www.ebay.com/itm/401299934403 2000 outback wagon, 2.5, automatic Edited March 17, 2018 by xdeadeye1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdeadeye1 Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 I got the engine out.. Pulled the timing cover. It looks in really good shape. Previous owner said he changed it at 65k,, its now at 118k. The pulleys and tensioner are Japanese.. NEK on the rollers. Not sure about the belt,, didn't see a name yet. Should I go spend the 194 and do the timing / water pump, now? Current timing belt has 53 k on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 As you found, aisin was providing an additional kit. it doesn’t seem common, odd given how many more outbacks there are and they are higher valued vehicles. Unless that’s just around here. It would be nice to know the precise physical reason there’s a different belt for what is essentially the same engine. I think it’s the belt teeth that are said to be different. Convoluted considering engines swaps are not rare. Are the cam sprocket, crank sprocket, and toothed sprocket the same part number for those engines/models? If the teeth are different, and it mattered, those couldn’t be the same. I never heard of different lower sprocket part numbers. Crank and cam will be confusing since different Katy numbers exist for the two different trigger styles. Maybe GD or GLoyale old school CCR folks would have something to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) I’ll check the link you posted. Edited March 21, 2018 by idosubaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 If the pulleys are original they should be replaced. You’ll feel them when removed, they won’t spin like new pulleys full of grease. Since they are intended for 105,000 miles of use on an interference engine it’s generally risky to not replace them or use inferior quality. Timing belts are easy enough on these engines that if you can DIY you can always check them periodically. Pull the belt at 50,000 miles and see where you’re at if you want to approach this piecemeal - replace just a belt or just the lower sprocket, etc. The lower sprocket results in immediate engine failure most of the time if it fails and should be replaced evert my time. They’re like $35 from Subaru. The other two idlers the belt can slide over for a while if they seize and it will slowly burn up, giving you some small amount of time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Not sure. Ideally someone that knows those two distinctions sees this post and confirms later today. I’d personally go for that kit since those engines are all the same block and heads. But I don’t like recommending “what I’d do” to others. Worst case buy the kit then you might have to order the belt from Subaru. Or just get all the parts from Subaru. Online discount Subaru dealers offer 20% lower prices than local dealers. I have a dealer which gives me that discount in person if you want to ask yours to do the same. The price wouldn’t be that much more than that Aisin kit I don’t think. $100 tensioner, $100 pulleys, $50 belt - $250-$300. My connectivity is poor or I’d look up a Subaru kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 The really early gaskets (99 to early 02) had problems with coolant weeping. If the gaskets were done after 02 then they shouldn't have this problem. Regardless- just pull it and reseal it. Change water pump, all the hoses (dealer), and the coolant cross over o-rings. GD I've got a 2010 Impreza i my shop right now with a weeping drivers side head at the back corner. Exactly the same as all the other SOHC 2.5s It still happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 All SOHC 2.5 belts are the same in terms of # of teeth and width. The lower smooth roller w/lip is the same for all. There are some differences in specs for the lower cogged idler, and the upper smooth one. Some of them have a single row of balls, some of them have 2 rows of balls. Not sure which was OE spec'ed for what models, But I don't order kits, I buy individual parts. And I always buy the double row rollers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdeadeye1 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) UPDATE: Timing Belt/rollers : ON closer inspection. The rollers are all Japanese,NSK or NEK (cant remember) , and the water pump has usab stamped on it. The belt itself says Gates.,, Made in USA I'm assuming the guy changed the belt,, but not the tensioner/ rollers.. I don't know. I rolled the rollers , I didn't notice any real bad wobbles ,, but I could hear the bearings as it was rolling,, and so I'm thinking they need changed. I pulled the heads. The head gaskets seemed to be peeling somewhat. The rubber coating coming off in various places. It seems to be a metal center. There is no stamp or logo on the Head gaskets.. Just grey metal and peeling dark grey rubbery coating. Both heads were weeping oil and the drivers side was leaking coolant pretty bad. ALSO the Head bolts are all the same , Gold in color, no markings on them . I expected to find the center head bolts different but they are the same as the others. 2 bolts have some rust on them. From the passenger side I believe. I plan on cleaning them up with a wire wheel. The rusty part was on the smooth bolt shaft. I remember the guy telling me he got new bolts when he did the head. But I'm wondering if he ever did the heads. Crossover tube. I ordered o rings from rock auto to replace the o rings. When I opened it up,,, the o rings seem squared. Is that just from the compression? The o rings I got are round. Edited March 23, 2018 by xdeadeye1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 yeah the orings will deform over time and look different, if you mean square cross section, it's just from time/compression/materials degradation. the rollers will spin freely if they're lacking grease. new pulleys won't spin because they're full of grease. seems backwards at first, but that's how it is in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I've got a 2010 Impreza i my shop right now with a weeping drivers side head at the back corner. Exactly the same as all the other SOHC 2.5s It still happens Oil - yes. Coolant - No. Not unless the gasket was done improperly after manufacture. Which does happen. The dealer doesn't surface heads. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Oil - yes. Coolant - No. Not unless the gasket was done improperly after manufacture. Which does happen. The dealer doesn't surface heads. GD fair point. This one was leaking just oil. And just barely. Prophylactic replacement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 fair point. This one was leaking just oil. And just barely. Prophylactic replacement Right. They didn't fix it till the 2011 Legacy and Impreza models. The Forester went FB so never saw the fix. 11 to 13 EJ non-turbo models got the 770 gasket like the WRX. Solving the oil weeping. The gasket was updated in mid '02 to stop the coolant leakage. It does seem to have worked for the vast majority of the 03+ models that I've seen. I have an '02 Impreza in the shop right now leaking coolant, and an '03 Legacy up next that only leaks oil. Though it's leaking that oil INTO the coolant . GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdeadeye1 Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 So do you think my gaskets were just aftermarket junk? or original? Going to use the same head bolts again. Going to Go ahead and get the Aisin, TKF-001 Timing /waterpump kit. 2000 outback wagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Right. They didn't fix it till the 2011 Legacy and Impreza models. The Forester went FB so never saw the fix. 11 to 13 EJ non-turbo models got the 770 gasket like the WRX. Solving the oil weeping. The gasket was updated in mid '02 to stop the coolant leakage. It does seem to have worked for the vast majority of the 03+ models that I've seen. I have an '02 Impreza in the shop right now leaking coolant, and an '03 Legacy up next that only leaks oil. Though it's leaking that oil INTO the coolant . GD Yeah I put the 770s in the '10 Impreza. Not sure what to do with the OE spec gasket that come in the kits I order for all the other gasket and seals. And you are correct,the vast majority of 03+ head gaskets I've done have been for external oil leaks. Although there have been some internal coolant/oil mixers and pressure steamers that eventually start overheating. then it's a must change HG situation and usually been overheated a bunch by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdeadeye1 Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share Posted March 27, 2018 so 2 head bolts have some rust on them. not terrible,, but its there.. i was going to clean them up with a wire wheel,, and re use. No markings on any bolts. Just gold in color. No noticable difference between the middle bolts and outer bolts either. So i was looking on rock auto and they all say they are TTY on there. https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/subaru,2000,outback,2.5l+h4,1434060,engine,cylinder+head+bolt,5308 Im pretty sure these are after market bolts . No markings. But if you say they are re usable ill use em.. ajusa aftermarkets are 25 bucks.. felpro et all aftermarkets are about 50 bucks. I know you told me they arent tty,, I guess the manufacture just wants to sell more bolts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) It only matters what Subaru says. Read the FSM if you still have questions. Do not wire wheel the bolts. It removes the aluminized anti-friction coating and promotes creaking. You can buy them individually from Subaru. Just the ones you need. GD Edited March 27, 2018 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Some of the aftermarket publications suggest tty as well, but it's incorrect. It is right in the factory manuals. If someone happened to use aftermarket bolts though. Id probably replace those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdeadeye1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 I just went and ordered a 12 bolt set off ebay of genuine Subaru bolts for like 62 bucks. I don't think the ones I have are original,, and didn't want to risk it. Should I re build my oil pump while I'm this deep into it? or leave it alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) I just went and ordered a 12 bolt set off ebay of genuine Subaru bolts for like 62 bucks. I don't think the ones I have are original,, and didn't want to risk it. Should I re build my oil pump while I'm this deep into it? or leave it alone? i would reseal it and tighten the backing plate screws, one or a bunch are always loose. it's really easy, nothing to it. tighten the backing plate screws with locktite, one oil pump oring, RTV and the crank seal. GD suggests upgrading to a larger 9mm pump if yours has a 7mm pump. some 2000+ EJ25's have a 7mm pump, all 90's stuff had 9mm. Edited March 28, 2018 by idosubaru 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 10mm pump is what we use for most applications. We upgrade the 7's and the 9's to 10's. Some built engines and 08+ STI get the 11mm. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdeadeye1 Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 ok,, sorry,, I have no leaks on my cams... I'm at 118 k miles. Should I pull the cam seals and replace them? Ill get a crank seal , I see on rock auto it comes with two seals so I think one is the oil pump o ring,, and the other is the crank seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Dont touch cam or crank seals. They are viton and its usually good forever. GD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I would get seals from Subaru for the reasons GD just mentioned. They are excellent materials and some aftermarket seals may use old school materials more prone to leak. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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