93 legacy over heating. Ive tried everything

[Wet cat]

So i have a 93 legacy non turbo. It was running fine. One day out of no where it got hot. I pulled over waited 6 hrs and got it home. It never got to the point it was blowing smoke and acting crazy. Was just hotter then normal with a little steam. I replaced the thermostat and radiator cap. It still ran hot.i checked the block for combustion leaks and it was good 5 of 6 times.I then did the timing belt water pump and radiator. New hoses and components with the timing. It was good for about 3 days. My lower hose came loose or something and i got hot. I topped everything off. Tightened my hose clamps and it seemed ok. Then one morning not more then 3 days later it lost all the coolant from somewhere. I left it in the parking lot. Came back 2 days later filled it with water and got it 2 miles home. I put in a new radiator and it still runs hot. I pulled the thermostat to check it and its working as it should. Im a bit lost. The fans work when the heater or defrost is on. The lower hose wasnt getting warm at all. The car does have 262k

[Gloyale]

headgasket

[Wet cat]

Thats my fear.

[Wet cat]

Would just having a new gasket put in solve it? Theres a shop locally that says 600 to just replace the gasket if i bring parts. I dont know how i feel about doing it. Is it worth it to have the valve cover gasket replaced if i already have the part?

[Wet cat]

I should clarify. I dont know if i feel capable of doing it. If i pay 600 to have it done am i at risk of it not being a fix?

[moosens]

Breathe , relax , and listen to these nice folks here.

 

To do the headgaskets , which you NEED , you’ll also be removing the “valve covers” so yes you’ll spend the little bit of $ on those and the other seals involved as well. Plus you’re going to be smart and get new timing components and cam seals and main seals.

 

I know it’s hard to hear , and you want to scrimp and save , but this is the way to go if you want to get many many more miles out of it in comfort.

 

More to follow.

[moosens]

To me , you’ve got the proper engine to put that money into and rightly expect another 100k easy.

 

I own three 92-94 Legacys.

 

And also to add to above - water pump ! Do it. Or at least reseal it and get the small elbow hose that comes off the pump. “Bypass hose” I believe it’s called.

 

The 2.2 you have can easily attain 300k

One of mine is at 314k now.

[Wet cat]

I did the timing belt and components with it. I got a kit from rockauto that had the water pump and pulleys. It was everything. I didnt do the timing belt cover gasket. But i meant to. When i ordered it i accidentally got the front crankshaft seal set. Which i guess will now get used amd ill make sure to actually gwt the timing cover gasket set. The mechanic who quoted me 600 said thats just doing the heads if i bring parts. I guess im gonna get this parts list together.

[Wet cat]

What direction should the thermostat be. The air bleeder pin should be where?

[GeneralDisorder]

600 is crazy cheap.

 

A typical EJ head gasket job is now around $2,000 with timing components, etc.

 

And yes you 100% have a gasket failure.

 

I would be highly suspect of a $600 head gasket job. It's easily 10 hours of work to do it right. Machine shop labor for head resurfacing. Heck just the head gaskets are $50 each. Quality timing components will run $350+. With a thermostat, hoses, etc you are looking at $600 in quality parts. Aint no HG job done for $600 going to go the distance.

 

GD

[GeneralDisorder]

What direction should the thermostat be. The air bleeder pin should be where?

It doesn't matter. Your HG's are bad. Location of the bleeder pin makes no difference. Your engine overheated out of the blue without warning or being low on coolant, etc. Does that implicate the jiggle pin? No it does not.

 

You have classic HG failure. I've seen it (not exaggerating) about 1000 times. I do Subarus for a living. Every. Day.

 

GD

[Wet cat]

I already did the timing and all the components amd the water pump. New hoses new radiator and cap and thermostat. Thst was 450 in parts i did most of which people keep saying replace. What my thought is when the water pump went which i saw when i took it out. The paddles were worn. So that was obvious. I think that the heads failed after that because before so i was driving this thing back and forth across the country many many times a year. So the head job for 600 is him not replacing anything i did. He just takes off the heads puts new gaskets on amd puts it back together. While they are off i was gonna have them checked for straightness.

[Wet cat]

I knew i was getting close to timing belt maintence and was planning on doing it. When it overheated the very first time my first thought was water pump because i still talk to the person who had it before me. They never had it done when the timing belt was done 80k miles ago.

[GeneralDisorder]

You need to have them resurfaced. Period. They will be pitted on the gasket fire ring after that kind of mileage. Straightness isn't the issue. Surface finish is.

 

GD

[moosens]

And don’t sweat the timing cover gaskets. We mean the gaskets and seals for oil. Those are just to keep road grime out of the covers , and you don’t have to panic on that. Most of us just reuse what fell off when doing timing , or don’t bother.

 

But at this point I’m advising you like you’re doing the job , which I take it you don’t feel comfortable doing.

 

GD is right on. I’m promoting the idea of spending the money you feel you shouldn’t have to , or wish to avoid. It’s the fork in the road. Put money into this one , or move on.

[Wet cat]

Thanks for the imput. I really appreciate it.

[Wet cat]

Should the engine side be resurfaced too or is just the heads side ok?

[lmdew]

Get a used lower mileage 2.2, put all your new timing components on it and for less than $400 you'll be up and going.

[Wet cat]

Im leaning towards having this guy in town do it. I would if i had help or quidence in person. Ill have the heads re surfaced and replace any gaskets that need too. I was gonna ask the mechanic if i can tear it dowm to the timing belt and get that off then take it in.

[Wet cat]

I looked around for a motor. There is 1 i found in state and they want 550 for it and dont know mileage. I also dont have a way to pull a motor

[GeneralDisorder]

No you cannot resurface the block deck. That requires complete disassembly of the short block.

 

If you can tear off the timing then you can do the HG yourself. It's not rocket science.

 

If it runs ok, doesn't knock, and has no metal in the oil filter I would just change the head gaskets and all the other seals and move on. One of my loaners has 319k on it and had HG's at 286k.

 

GD

Edited April 28, 2018 by GeneralDisorder

[idosubaru]

those year EJ22's aren't hard to do in the vehicle either so no need to worry about engine lifts, etc.  look at the engine and the head bolts are staring you in the face. 

 

Subaru head gaskets, intake manifold gasket, valve cover gasket and you're done.  Exhaust gaskets wise too but they generally can often be reused.

 

you don't need to replace the timing cover seals, heck many people just decide not to bother installing the covers, but let's not open that can of worms here. 

 

find a machine shop to resurface the heads.  some won't warranty the heads but i just tell them i won't want or need the warranty on these heads and they'll resurface them only without charging hundreds for a complete valve job, pressure test, etc.  you have to ask specifically sometimes though because they're often just churning out complete valve/pressure test jobs and charge accordingly. you don't need that. 

[idosubaru]

 When it overheated the very first time my first thought was water pump because i still talk to the person who had it before me. They never had it done.

 

original subaru EJ engine (your engine) water pumps easily make 200,000 miles, i often don't even replace them particularly on older non interference engines, with normal use they simply dont' have any real practical failure modes. that said - i do replace them sometimes for a variety of reasons and sure anything can fail - but outside compelling reasons the data suggests the water pump wasn't the likely cause. 

 

if the impellers were damaged it's just as likely that an overheating event, low coolant, or high temp exhaust gases pushed into the coolant, or cavitation if that's possible in automotive applications. 

[Wet cat]

I was going to go with mahle gaskets and head bolts.

[Gloyale]

I was going to go with mahle gaskets and head bolts.

 

you don't need new headbolts.

 

They are not TTY.  they don't stretch.  The aluminum threads in the block would strip befpre you could stretch the High grade steel bolts.

 

Don't replace unless they are rusted to where the grey antisieze coating has come off.  Do no wire wheel.

 

Clean, lay in a tray of clean engine oil before assembly.

 

I would recommend Dealer for HGs or a headset from "stone" brand....they package OE japanese parts into kits.