NA ej25 to ej20 swap questions

[comatosellama]

My 03 OBS is really starting to knock, looking to get an ej20 to replace it, but can’t find any threads in them that have the full list of sensors that need to be swapped. I know I’m gonna swap the intake and it seems like I need to swap crank pulley and cam gears. Does anyone know what needs to be swapped ?

[GeneralDisorder]

Get a reman short block from Subaru. 3yr/36k warranty. You don't want a 2.0 in that heavy pig. The gearing and rev limiter is all wrong and it will be a dog. Kills resale value too. Just don't.

 

GD

[86BRATMAN]

LH cam gear, crank gear, and intake manifold with wiring harness.

[comatosellama]

Get a reman short block from Subaru. 3yr/36k warranty. You don't want a 2.0 in that heavy pig. The gearing and rev limiter is all wrong and it will be a dog. Kills resale value too. Just don't.

 

GD

That’s 3500 vs 700, for a college sophomore the 12 hp hit seems worth it. And I’m sure with how bad my slap is I’m missing a little horsepower as it is. Anyways I paid 4K for the car that math doesn’t really work out Edited April 29, 2018 by comatosellama

[GeneralDisorder]

What you paid for the car is of no consequence. Put that out of your mind. It's in the past and has no bearing on this situation or "the math". You already own the car so for the purposes of this new math you paid $0 for it. Would you pay $4k for it in it's current condition? Of course not. So you're taking a loss. That's already done. Set in stone. Trying to save money going forward by repairing it the wrong way isn't going to redress that balance. It's done. You lose. End of math.

 

Reman short block is $2150.

 

Here's the math. What car could you buy for $3k (short block, gaskets, cylinder head work, and timing components) that has a brand new engine with ZERO miles and comes with a 3yr/36k warranty? Answer: Only the one you currently own.

 

The HP loss isn't a static number. The loss is the entire area under the curve and the peak loss is much higher than 12 HP because you can't spin the 2.0 to redline and your gearing and shift points aren't setup for its power band. Like I said it's a mistake.

 

GD

Edited April 29, 2018 by GeneralDisorder

[comatosellama]

What you paid for the car is of no consequence. Put that out of your mind. It's in the past and has no bearing on this situation or "the math". You already own the car so for the purposes of this new math you paid $0 for it. Would you pay $4k for it in it's current condition? Of course not. So you're taking a loss. That's already done. Set in stone. Trying to save money going forward by repairing it the wrong way isn't going to redress that balance. It's done. You lose. End of math.

 

Reman short block is $2150.

 

Here's the math. What car could you buy for $3k (short block, gaskets, cylinder head work, and timing components) that has a brand new engine with ZERO miles and comes with a 3yr/36k warranty? Answer: Only the one you currently own.

 

The HP loss isn't a static number. The loss is the entire area under the curve and the peak loss is much higher than 12 HP because you can't spin the 2.0 to redline and your gearing and shift points aren't setup for its power band. Like I said it's a mistake.

 

GD

Damn someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed ???????????? what about buying a outback with a hg leak and swapping my heads to it. Edited April 29, 2018 by comatosellama

[idosubaru]

Damn someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed what about buying a outback with a hg leak and swapping my heads to it.

 

 this is mostly academic and pointless for you, i get that - if i drove 4 cylinders i'd do new subaru blocks in my daily drivers but i'm not scared of JDM or used engines and have used them most of the time. they have plenty of useful fits and yours is probably it. .  get your JDM engine but just for fun....here's another way to look at it...

 

he is blunt, but it's just a different way to look at it and over 5-10 years and average outcomes - it's probably true.

 

it's common to spend thousands every couple years on a used old car, repair, repair, (this is where you're at right now), repair, then another used old car, tow, stranded, miss days, need rides, repair, repair.... cost to own a car (usually a few) over 10 years can be high.  cost per mile or cost per year are better financial figures to work off of. 

 

most people can look back at how many cars and repairs they've done over 10 years and get a rough idea how much they're paying per year...driving that cost down is the best math, not just circumstantial moments. 

 

 what about buying a outback with a hg leak and swapping my heads to it.

 

that math is worse IMO. if you have that time and are competent - buy a cheap car, fix it, sell it for profit and fix the car you own with a new motor and you'll probably make money, save time, and have the new short block with warranty over your current approach.

 

***although if you do it yourself Subaru may not be obliged to stand by the warranty since it probably has to be installed by an ASE certified location? 

 

$2,000 is chump change. the opportunity costs to go to college are huge.  you could be working and making $100,000+ in 4 years time but you choose to give up $100,000+ of economic employment.  in those terms the difference between $700 and $2,000 is rather dinky and $1300 premium could be well spent on maximizing outcomes of that 6 figure opportunity cost. 

 

but....most americans, particularly college students, fluidly go through cash, don't manage finances well, don't plan, think short term, and live month to month so all of this is mostly pointless commentary...

[comatosellama]

this is mostly academic and pointless for you, i get that - if i drove 4 cylinders i'd do new subaru blocks in my daily drivers but i'm not scared of JDM or used engines and have used them most of the time. they have plenty of useful fits and yours is probably it. . get your JDM engine but just for fun....here's another way to look at it...

 

he is blunt, but it's just a different way to look at it and over 5-10 years and average outcomes - it's probably true.

 

it's common to spend thousands every couple years on a used old car, repair, repair, (this is where you're at right now), repair, then another used old car, tow, stranded, miss days, need rides, repair, repair.... cost to own a car (usually a few) over 10 years can be high. cost per mile or cost per year are better financial figures to work off of.

 

most people can look back at how many cars and repairs they've done over 10 years and get a rough idea how much they're paying per year...driving that cost down is the best math, not just circumstantial moments.

 

 

that math is worse IMO. if you have that time and are competent - buy a cheap car, fix it, sell it for profit and fix the car you own with a new motor and you'll probably make money, save time, and have the new short block with warranty over your current approach.

 

***although if you do it yourself Subaru may not be obliged to stand by the warranty since it probably has to be installed by an ASE certified location?

 

$2,000 is chump change. the opportunity costs to go to college are huge. you could be working and making $100,000+ in 4 years time but you choose to give up $100,000+ of economic employment. in those terms the difference between $700 and $2,000 is rather dinky and $1300 premium could be well spent on maximizing outcomes of that 6 figure opportunity cost.

 

but....most americans, particularly college students, fluidly go through cash, don't manage finances well, don't plan, think short term, and live month to month so all of this is mostly pointless commentary...

Um.. what?

[comatosellama]

 

Um.. what?

There is no opportunity cost here I can put the engine in by myself in a day or two, and have the garage space and free time to keep swapping $200 engines x10 at no real loss. I’m just trying to find out what I would hypothetically need to do if I took that route. Idk where you guys are trying to take this thread.

[idosubaru]

bratman gave you the rundown of parts. swap away. the biggest issue is making sure you get the correct engine. the JDM year engines dont' always follow US market engines, so just make sure you get the right phase/generation electronics, which should be easy for 02.

 

the H6 engine i just did was plug and play, no swapping of any engine part needed. A/C, power steering just plan on swapping your existing parts into but if they're the same you can retain them. i think the A/C was slightly different on the JDM, but no matter just install the US A/C onto the JDM engine.

 

you're in college, the lessons above are really really good, probably more business, career, professional, and personally developmental than most college courses if understood properly, but i get that they're currently not practical (also like college courses hahaha) and you're a few years from any of that making sense.

 

opportunity costs i was referring to was the opportunity costs of being in college, not installing an engine. but no matter, under the bridge.

Edited April 29, 2018 by idosubaru

[Gloyale]

Get a reman short block from Subaru. 3yr/36k warranty. You don't want a 2.0 in that heavy pig. The gearing and rev limiter is all wrong and it will be a dog. Kills resale value too. Just don't.

 

GD

 

OBS so I think he means Impreza really.

 

not that heavy.  Not many hills where he's at.  It will drive just fine.

 

I've got a customer here withg a JDM ej20 that drives back and forth to Baker city often.  He's got a 2001 OB wagon.....the big Legacy based one........He loves the car and is happy with it.....Now, he's in his 50's so maybe not so lead footed.

 

This poster is also in Michigan talking about a 17 year old car, so there is basically no resale at all already.  And no way in hell it would be a good investment to put 3000+ into the engine.......the car won't last another 10 years to make it worth it.  Michigan winters EAT cars, literally.  If he's spending that much, he could get a newer subaru with less rust.

 

If it's a cost effective way for him to get the car driving, I say it's a good idea.

 

To the poster......Swap the Cam and Crank gears and use your 2.5 Intake, crossover pipe, Knock sensor, and Cam and Crank sensors

Edited April 29, 2018 by Gloyale

[GeneralDisorder]

Well he paid $4k for it. So shouldn't that mean its worth putting in $3k to get it back to better than when he bought it? Depends on rust I suppose. That's never a concern here.

 

GD

[matt167]

The big thing to consider is the engine itself does not constitute the rest of the drivetrain or the condition of the vehicle.. 2.0L swaps are popular in areas where clean cars are harder to find because the car's simply are not worth the expense. 

[GeneralDisorder]

Value is subjective. Depends on if you are going to use it or sell it. Its resale value will be considerably reduced with a 2.0 swap. And it won't be as fun to drive. If rust was a huge concern on this body why was it worth $4k?

Edited April 29, 2018 by GeneralDisorder

[matt167]

well if you were going to sell a car worth $4k, you would not put $3,500 into it.. Lesser car's have a larger value, at least here in NY as long as they have 120-150k miles.. A 200k mile car is a $2k car up to a point ( certainly in the 2003 range ). The other way to look at it is, the short block is guaranteed for 3/36, but the car might not last that long, or if it would even be kept that long. The 2.0L is a slight bit of a gamble but at under 1/2 cost... If this were a Corolla we would just be suggesting the junkyard or a cheap engine at best. Realistically a Subaru is no different. A cheap car to drive is a cheap car to own.. A Nissan Verse is not a fun car to drive either, but they sell lots of them to people who want a cheap car

Edited April 30, 2018 by matt167

[Mike104]

I can see both sides of this story.  About 10 yrs ago I blew the HGs on my 99 OBW with 216k miles.  The car was given to me so I had nothing into it other than previous maintenance items.  I essentially knew the condition of this vehicle.  I read all the threads about 2.2L swaps, JDM engines and Remans especially the often case about rod knock shortly after replacing head gaskets.  I considered the various options (get another vehicle, put in a reman engine, a JDM/Used engine or a short block).  Since I was going to have to pay someone to do the job anyway (didn't have tools/equipment/experience) I eventually decided to buy a CCR reman engine and had a local "import specialist" install the new engine.  It was pricey but the CCR engine had everything included (except accessories and intake manifold) so was only the engine swap costs.  Now 10 yrs and 250k miles more on the car, it was the right decision for me at the time.

 

Second event on another Subaru ('03 Forester) that had rod knock after HG replacement, I went the JDM EJ20 route.  I had more experience, the tools/equipment and a Subaru mechanic in my house.  This car won't last 10 more years (rust) and had a manual transmission so I felt the few less HP could be easily adapted over an automatic with TCU set shift points.  

 

The OP doesn't probably have the $3k to buy the parts for the "right" way to do the job so I get him wanting to go the JDM route.  If money was no object the Subaru short block would be the best option and if I ever need to replace an EJ25 engine in a OB I would definitely go that route if it was a car I was going to keep.  

[comatosellama]

Well he paid $4k for it. So shouldn't that mean its worth putting in $3k to get it back to better than when he bought it? Depends on rust I suppose. That's never a concern here.

 

GD

Car is 95% rust free, just surface on the subframes. Plan on using por-15 on the entire underbody to keep it that way. Trans rebuilt 70k ago, car is real solid.