firstsubi Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 I have a 2010 legacy 2.5i m/t 167k miles, car never leaked a drop of oil until last Friday it started leaking bad! and smoking.. I pulled over to see what was going on, it was still running fine and no lights came on. Couldn’t see where oil was leaking from so decided to have it towed to the dealership. They said I was a quart low (I just did oil change 3 days prior) so it leaked a quart in about 30 min. They told me they topped it off and added Uv dye, let it idle for 20-30 checked it and couldn’t find any leak, told me to pick it up and drive it for a week and bring it back so they could check again.... picked it up got 2 min down the road and it’s smoking and leaking again so I took it back and within 5 min of them getting it back they are able to tell me it’s the driver side cam seal. ($600) I said alright fix it, then they call me the next day and tell me that I need a whole new head because the cam is “out of round” $2200. The car ran fine with no lights on... has anyone ever seen a n/a Subaru bend a camshaft and wear out the head? I just can’t believe it but told them to fix it if that’s what it needs. ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 (edited) I call BS. Big time BS There is virtually no way for a Camshaft to become suddenly "out of round". The journal in the head could get damaged, and cause the seal to not hold. that would maybe be the result of lack of oil, but since the rest of engine is fine, and presumably there is no shavings in the oil, I doubt that happened. There is no way the Hardened steel cam distorted unless the car was in a heavy front end accident. Take the car to a reputable import service shop. Somewhere familiar with subarus, but not a dealership. Have them replace the timing belt, idlers, and both Cam seals and crank seal. Should cost between $500-800 tops. Unfortunately, dealerships will try to overstate or just flat lie about how badly your car needs some this or that, and then will try to convince you to buy a new car instead. East coast dealerships seem to be the worst about this. Edited May 5, 2018 by Gloyale 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstsubi Posted May 5, 2018 Author Share Posted May 5, 2018 I don’t even see how that’s legal. I asked for the old head back. It’ll be the last time they work on the car!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 I don’t even see how that’s legal. I asked for the old head back. It’ll be the last time they work on the car!! Save that head for examination by a second shop or other dealership. I'd love to see pics of what they claim "ruined" or "out of round" Contact SOA. Complain. Subaru should know that they have a dealership out there scamming people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstsubi Posted May 5, 2018 Author Share Posted May 5, 2018 The car should be done Monday and they better still have the head for me. I told the service manager I wanted it. The car runs fine and was quiet and never threw code for anything on me in the 2 years I’ve had it. I baby that thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 I’m with Gloyale, there’s no way this is believable without compelling info we don’t know about like you ran into a tree. I hesitate to speculate without knowing anything, there’s a lot of poor customers and inaccurate stories floating around but this sounds all wrong. Get the old head back and post pictures. But if they’re this shady they’ll also know to stick that head under their 20 ton press to make sure it’s bent. Or they happen to have a bent cam laying around for “evidence” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstsubi Posted May 5, 2018 Author Share Posted May 5, 2018 No accident. Motor is fine I was driving down the road and it started leaking oil but I pulled over before the oil light even came on.. I was thinking that too about making sure it’s messed up since they know I want to have it now. But he told me it didn’t wobble at idle but when you give it gas it’s off?? I’ll put up pictures when I get the head back and take it somewhere else as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 But he told me it didn’t wobble at idle but when you give it gas it’s off?? Total BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 I haven’t seen every mechanical scenario in the natural world but this sounds basically impossible and 100% BS. A huge chunk of steel doesn’t magically bend. Quite literally impossible. If you came home and your front door was bent would you think it “randomly failed”? Of course not. This is equally incoherent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstsubi Posted May 5, 2018 Author Share Posted May 5, 2018 I agree! This service manager also tried to tell me my strut tower was bent and that “any trained eye could see that it’s bent” and I told him no it’s not. Took it somewhere else and it wasn’t bent. I just take my car there because they give me a loaner and I’ve never had a problem with their work but this seems to be a foul diagnosis costing me $2200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 I bet it's just a dead seal or an unseated seal that's been pushed out from high oil pressure or incorrectly installed seal. They're clearly ignorant towards their clientele or pegged you as an easy target for this sort of thing. Also if they have one head off I'd be asking to have the other head removed, both shaved to equal height before new head gaskets are installed. They should know to replace BOTH head gaskets is best practice and about 95% of the work to do this is done to pull the other head anyway. Damn shame you've agreed to have the work done. I wouldn't be paying until they produce your old head and show you exactly what's wrong with it. If possible take a mate with some mechanical knowledge or pay a qualified mechanic to go with you "as your mate" to pick up your vehicle and check the head. Any mechanic worth their weight should have no problems showing you your dead parts and allowing you to take them for assessment. My bet is the dealer has disposed of your "dud" head already... Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstsubi Posted May 6, 2018 Author Share Posted May 6, 2018 I won’t pay if they don’t give me the old one. How am I to know they did any work otherwise!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 You should have told them not to do the work and taken the car somewhere else. A rental car for a month is cheaper than a $2200 bill from a dealer. Cams not bent. Yes the journal is out of round, they almost always are. It's just the way the head wears as the cam rides in it. The seal is old and leaking. New cam seals and a timing belt kit cost $300 plus maybe $700 labor from a decent shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 Ah you said “service manager”. This may be partially miscommunication. The service staff may not articulate technical details well. They’re hearing something from the mechanic and then relaying that to you. The service office staff often misquote the shop/mechanics, may have never touched a camshaft before, may be third party info for them, may reduce things to bite sized chunks for the frequently mechanically uninformed public. Too much data freaks the masses out. It still smells really bad and for that kind of catastrophe you should be given more attention, info, and guidance than ambiguous comments and 4 digit repairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 My guess is someone did the HG's in the past and there is cam journal damage from oil contamination. We shall see once you get the head and can post pictures. $2200 is extremely cheap for a head replacement - the dealers here are charging that much just for a HG job and that doesn't include timing. So to do the HG and actually replace the entire cylinder head for that price seems ridiculously cheap. That head with it's camshaft, and whatever other bits they need would be upwards of $1000 by itself. At dealer rates it doesn't seem possible even. At any rate the dealer isn't doing the job correctly. They obviously aren't doing timing and chances are that engine still has the factory water pump installed. Should have all that replaced along with a new radiator, hoses, etc. Not to mention the HG on the other side. Dealers..... they drive SOOOOOOO much business to me. It's disturbing and profitable. I can't complain. GD 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstsubi Posted May 6, 2018 Author Share Posted May 6, 2018 They said when they put the new seal in it still leaked and because it wouldn’t seal that’s why I need a new head. The hg are original.. they quoted me 10 hours of labor and just over 1000 for parts so that’s how they got to the 2200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstsubi Posted May 6, 2018 Author Share Posted May 6, 2018 And I had the timing belt done with new water pump about 50k miles ago and asked them to change out cam and crank seal while they were doing it and they told me the seals look pristine and no need to change them. They said let it go another 100k until the timing belt needs done again. I was mad when they told me cam seal because I told them I wanted them changed out. I didn’t want to be on the hook for a $600 seal job that didn’t fix the problem if I want going to have them do the head work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 Sounds like they have no clue what they are doing. It IS standard practice to leave the cam and crank seals alone. They are Viton and typically last the life of the engine. My guess is the leak either wasn't actually from the seal, or they haven't got the skill to install it properly. I doubt this was correctly diagnosed. As far as price they are taking good care of you. Thats cheap. Our local dealers are charging $2200 for replacing both HG's. I charge $2150 at my shop but include all the timing components and we use a better HG and an engine pull procedure that results in a cleaner job. GD 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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