cattylist and evap systems wont ready

[sirtokesalot]

 im having issues trying to get my car though emissions. i haven't brought it in yet because my code reader of awesomeness is telling me the catylist monitor and the evap monitor are not ready and they wont ready before a check engine appears for p0440 and sometimes p0420. this is on a 1998 outback with the ej22 from a 1995 legacy in it. the car has a newer filler neck in it with no rust what do i have to do to get these systems to be ready so i can get the emissions tested?

[GeneralDisorder]

You have to fix the evap and catalytic converter systems. Try one of these for the catalyst:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MTA6OXG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2NMBIZOMZLC5C

 

For the EVAP you will have to find the leak. Smoke machine is the best way. Don't forget it could be the gas cap too. 

 

GD

[Gloyale]

there was a known issue with some models in the 90's never actually showing all monitors ready.

 

I know in wisconsin the testing places knew about it and would pass you if all else checked out.  96 outback in particular this was the case.

[sirtokesalot]

You have to fix the evap and catalytic converter systems. Try one of these for the catalyst:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MTA6OXG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2NMBIZOMZLC5C

 

For the EVAP you will have to find the leak. Smoke machine is the best way. Don't forget it could be the gas cap too. 

 

GD

 

 

 the catylist one not clearing does that mean it needs a new cat converter? i have the ones from the 95 car still and the o2 sensors from that car they never gave any codes should i put these on the car for that issue?

 

 i feel like the evap might be hooked up wrong but im not sure. the 95 engine had a charcoal canister in front that the 98 did not have and when i put the engine in i did not know how to bypass it so i just moved it with the engine was this the wrong thing to do?

 

 i have 280 miles since the check engine reset currently and it shows the systems not ready still. check engine light should click on in the next 100 miles from the way its been going.

Edited May 14, 2018 by sirtokesalot

[1 Lucky Texan]

any chance of rust holes in the filler tube?

[sirtokesalot]

any chance of rust holes in the filler tube?

not likely. my old car had a new filler tube and i saved it and installed it on this car last year due to the filler tube being rusted throgh when i got the car. i also have the old cars gas cap on this car.

[Mike104]

The fitting GD posted should fix the P0420 code.  I have a similar fix on two of my older Subaru's that had P0420 codes.  Personally I wouldn't spend $$$$ for a catalytic converter on a 98 car.

 

Usually on these cars the P0420 code gets triggered when the Aft O2 sensor voltage goes over 0.8V this fix puts the rear O2 sensor further out in the exhaust stream lowering the voltage and getting rid of the P0420 code.  Exhaust leaks can also trigger this code.

[GeneralDisorder]

You need to reroute the EVAP lines exactly as they are on the hood sticker. And you can't use the hardlines on the intake as they are not large enough to flow sufficient volume for the ECU to be ok. The problem is definitely with the engine swap not being plumbed correctly.

 

You could try the 95 converter. But the Amazon adapter will be a sure bet and quicker.

 

GD

[Bushwick]

Before throwing online "parts" at it, find out if the cats are actually bad. A P0420 can mean a cat isn't working as it should, or in some cases, not at all because the substrate is broken. Just dealt with the same code on a '99 4.6L DOHC Ford engine with 2 up, 2 down O2. Code would only appear after light cruising at a steady speed. Reset code, it could go 50 miles before tripping again. I actually smelled raw exhaust though. An auto autopsy showed one of the cats for one side of the engine, the substrate broke free and was in chunks. Car had a PO apparently drive it too long with a misfire, which ruined it. Went with an aftermarket cat Y pipe and code went away.

 

If you can smell "raw" exhaust (like a catless engine) AFTER the engine is fully warmed up, it's probably bad. If cat housing is getting red-hot while driving (like glowing red) it's probably bad.

 

If you have a spare cat pipe, consider swapping and resetting. IF anything is actually wrong with the engine, like it's running too rich, too lean, misfires, is puking oil, etc. consider fixing that 1st.

 

EVAP should most likely mimic whatever THAT car came with, as that's what it is expecting. If need be, resort to diagrams, online pics, etc. and try to get the evap system as close to stock (for the car) as possible.

 

While this might be "illegal" and I've honestly never done it and don't suggest it; I ran into an OBDII connectivity issue before and is how I'm coming to the conclusion now; "IF" the check engine "light" appears at start up and "goes out" once running, and "IF" there is NO OBDII connectivity (in my case, one of the crimps was backing out, and I couldn't get scanner to connect, and emissions test had same problem; didn't figure out the OBDII connector until much later), AND your state is like mine, they'll go to the older method of a longer tailpipe test..... which might actually pass assuming everything is at least running correctly. FWIW, I've seen older Ford 302 (carb'd no less) V8 engines transplanted into bodies that had 2.3L engines from the factory, PASS the 2.3L's limits with modern, dual aftermarket & later factory 5.0L quad-cats (small cam, factory-style heads, etc.).

Edited May 15, 2018 by Bushwick

[sirtokesalot]

Before throwing online "parts" at it, find out if the cats are actually bad. A P0420 can mean a cat isn't working as it should, or in some cases, not at all because the substrate is broken. Just dealt with the same code on a '99 4.6L DOHC Ford engine with 2 up, 2 down O2. Code would only appear after light cruising at a steady speed. Reset code, it could go 50 miles before tripping again. I actually smelled raw exhaust though. An auto autopsy showed one of the cats for one side of the engine, the substrate broke free and was in chunks. Car had a PO apparently drive it too long with a misfire, which ruined it. Went with an aftermarket cat Y pipe and code went away.

 

If you can smell "raw" exhaust (like a catless engine) AFTER the engine is fully warmed up, it's probably bad. If cat housing is getting red-hot while driving (like glowing red) it's probably bad.

 

If you have a spare cat pipe, consider swapping and resetting. IF anything is actually wrong with the engine, like it's running too rich, too lean, misfires, is puking oil, etc. consider fixing that 1st.

 

EVAP should most likely mimic whatever THAT car came with, as that's what it is expecting. If need be, resort to diagrams, online pics, etc. and try to get the evap system as close to stock (for the car) as possible.

 

While this might be "illegal" and I've honestly never done it and don't suggest it; I ran into an OBDII connectivity issue before and is how I'm coming to the conclusion now; "IF" the check engine "light" appears at start up and "goes out" once running, and "IF" there is NO OBDII connectivity (in my case, one of the crimps was backing out, and I couldn't get scanner to connect, and emissions test had same problem; didn't figure out the OBDII connector until much later), AND your state is like mine, they'll go to the older method of a longer tailpipe test..... which might actually pass assuming everything is at least running correctly. FWIW, I've seen older Ford 302 (carb'd no less) V8 engines transplanted into bodies that had 2.3L engines from the factory, PASS the 2.3L's limits with modern, dual aftermarket & later factory 5.0L quad-cats (small cam, factory-style heads, etc.).

 

(1) i do have the cats and 02 sensors from the 95 legacy that the engine came from they never gave any p0420 codes in that car. the 95 always passed emissions.

 

(2)  when i did the engine swap i moved the charcoal canister and the 2 sensors from the strut tower with the 95's engine as i did not want to unplug them and risk not hooking them up the same way. im guessing im going to have to stop by a junk yard and get those 2 sensors from the strut tower from a 1998 car i think they were a little different and again figured the ones from the 95 engine would work.

 

(3) what size hoses and how much of it would i need to replace all the rubber lines in the evap system?

 

(4) thats interesting so i could disable the obd2 port and they would test the old way huh. id rather fix it right but if all els fails...

Edited May 15, 2018 by sirtokesalot

[Bushwick]

3. You'll have to look at a donor. You might get lucky, and be able to grab everything. Anything suspect (like rotted rubber) replace. Take pics with your phone + video of donor. EVAP stuff seems to get ignored in most yards, so you'll probably be OK. If there are any weird rubber jump-sizes (like say a weird 1/2" on one end and 1/4" on other) hopefully you can get a decent donor part. If not, get creative.

[Gloyale]

 i feel like the evap might be hooked up wrong but im not sure. the 95 engine had a charcoal canister in front that the 98 did not have and when i put the engine in i did not know how to bypass it so i just moved it with the engine was this the wrong thing to do?

 

your car has a charcoal canister in back.

 

Take out the under hood one and loop the 2 lines for it toghether.  I know, they aren't the same size...it's ok.  Just loop them.

[GeneralDisorder]

your car has a charcoal canister in back.

 

Take out the under hood one and loop the 2 lines for it toghether.  I know, they aren't the same size...it's ok.  Just loop them.

 

That will not work. The hard lines are not large enough in diameter to allow enough purge flow and you still get the code. Also some setups have the MAP sensor T'd differently. You must run new hose and not use the hard line in most cases as it will still throw a purge flow code if you don't.

 

GD

[idosubaru]

it would appear your readiness monitor issues are related to the ominous check engine lights you keep getting.

 

if we ignore those issues for a moment, 1996 Subaru's are exempt from the readiness monitors because they will never, ever be ready.  

so is it possible you have a 1996 ECU, or are there other years close to 1996 that also have issues?  just checking since it seems you did some parts swapping. 

[sirtokesalot]

it would appear your readiness monitor issues are related to the ominous check engine lights you keep getting.

 

if we ignore those issues for a moment, 1996 Subaru's are exempt from the readiness monitors because they will never, ever be ready.  

so is it possible you have a 1996 ECU, or are there other years close to 1996 that also have issues?  just checking since it seems you did some parts swapping. 

 i dont think its a 1996 ecu. i used the ecu that was in the car originally and i did have to replace with a used one of the same model due to cooling fans not running but not sure what year it came from. i have the next 2 days off but im not sure if the rains going to let up for that time might have to wait a while as rain is forcasted for the next week.

Edited May 15, 2018 by sirtokesalot

[Gloyale]

That will not work. The hard lines are not large enough in diameter to allow enough purge flow and you still get the code. Also some setups have the MAP sensor T'd differently. You must run new hose and not use the hard line in most cases as it will still throw a purge flow code if you don't.

 

GD

 

It works fine.  The hardline only goes small for the last 2 feet under the intake to the purge and then into intake.

 

It DOES work.......I've done MANY 2.2 conversions in Outbacks and Foresters.

 

T the MAP as shown for the car.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Gloyale

[GeneralDisorder]

Yeah and I've done more. Lost count years ago. Trust me it doesn't always work. On at least 3 occasions I have had to reroute the purge around the hardlines.

[sirtokesalot]

well im at about 1,500 miles no check engine light but catlyst and evap monitors are still not ready. should i presume that i have one of those cars that will just never ready those systems and that i should pass emissions?

[GeneralDisorder]

You automatically fail with unready monitors. 

You don't have a 96 ECU by chance do you? That would never go ready.

GD

[sirtokesalot]

20 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

You automatically fail with unready monitors. 

You don't have a 96 ECU by chance do you? That would never go ready.

GD

i am not sure the original ecu failed and i had to replace it with a used one but im not sure what year it came from all i know is that it was the same number ecu as what was in there originally. the car is a 1998 but again not sure what year car the ecu came from. i have not tried to take it to emissions yet ive been putting that off until i need to re register the car becuase ct will allow one fail if its the first fail and still let you re register the car.

Edited June 23, 2018 by sirtokesalot

[Bushwick]

Dunno what your checks are like in CT, but here in Ohio, "IF" there is an issue getting the OBD II connector to work with their diagnostic electronics i.e. it refuses to "connect" i.e. "talk" to each other, they'll instead do a straight-up tailpipe test on the rollers at lower speeds assuming there is no CEL or signs of tampering with the cats.

 

Lots of engines can actually pass the tail pipe portion if they are running OK. I ran into issues with a crimping backing out of an OBD II port w/o realizing at the time, and the roller test was offered which it passed. I've also seen a 306 AND a 351W, in '79 and '80 Mustangs that both came with 2.3L turbo/2.3L NA engines pass the 2.3L limits with nothing more than quad/dual cats, small cam, and carb tweaking, back when our limits were more stringent. All about how good it's running.

[sirtokesalot]

i have attached a picture of the ecu i have. this is the old one but i replaced it with one of the same model ecu's does anyone know if this is the type that these systems wont ready?

[GeneralDisorder]

No. That's a 98 ECU so it should be fine. The readiness monitor malfunction is 96 only.

GD

[sirtokesalot]

i finally got one of the 2 to ready up. was so excited to see the ev status being ready when i checked it today only the c system is not ready now and once i swap the cats and o2's into it from my old car that system should ready up as well. its going to pass emissions

[idosubaru]

The 96 exemption is for 96 ECUs only. Its ECU specific and has nothing to do with the car or engine. It’s worth verifying if you’ve done EVU swapping.  I would not assume it’s the same ECU without putting eyeballs on the one in the car given how interchangeable EJ ECUs are.