Outback 2.5 for boat towing?

[jay_fillion]

Hello.  I've never owned a Subaru but am considering my first purchase and need some input.

 

We live in New England where my family owns a cabin and a boat (17' bowrider).  I usually transport  the boat to and from the cabin for the season as well as taking it to the shop for end of year service.  This is is mostly done with my wife's minivan (3k-3.5k tow rating).  It can handle everything except the boat ramp.  The ramp has a decent incline, but more-over it is dirt with a number of ruts.  The van will always spin out on the ramp.   I mainly attribute this to the fact that it's front wheel drive.  In this case we usually schedule with someone else to have a truck on site when putting in / taking out of the water.  I'm at a point where I need to change vehicles and ideally I would find something that can handle the boat, including the ramp.  At the same time this is my commuting car, so I don't want to go wild with buying a heavy duty vehicle.

 

I'm mainly considering the 2019 Cherokee (4k-4.5k tow capacity) or the 2018 Outback 2.5 (2.7k tow capacity).  There are pro's and con's to both.  I do like having the extra tow capacity on the Cherokee, but like the fuel economy of the Outback.  My one concern is whether or not the Outback has enough margin on its tow rating and will really handle the boat.

 

According to documentation the boat is 2.2k lbs dry.  So I'm assuming it is about 2.5k-ish with gas, gear etc. 

 

Does anyone have experience with pulling a boat like this with an Outback (good or bad experience)?

Also, does anyone know the rating on the hitch that comes from factory?  I was surprised it was the smaller size, but I suppose it could still be a Class 2, which is up to 3k lbs.  The dealer didn't seem to know much on the subject.

Thanks

[3Pin]

I have a 17' boat and launch it ,tow it short distances and go to the service facility .  I have used a forester, outback with a 2.5, an outback with a 3.0 LL Bean and my favorite the 2014 with a 3.6.  The 3.6 with a transmission versus cvt that handles it the best.  I would be careful about going to fast or too far with the 2.5 with a cvt and the 17'.  

[idosubaru]

I tow a 17 footer and have been in quite a few different environments. 

1. They handle it just fine for moving purposes.  They're not a dedicated tow vehicle but you're not towing it all the time no big deal IMO.  I have a full sized truck and dislike driving it unless necessary.  Truck gets 15mpg while towing, Subaru's get around 12 mpg. 

2.  Cooling system is the main limitation for Subaru's. I haven't towed with a 2017 but this has been true across multiple subaru plaforms for decades and the 2017 isn't enormously different in terms of cooling layout, design, size, and capacity.  Seen it on many models of Subaru's - high temps + steep grades + heavy enough load - the car will run hot.

[forester2002s]

And the other factor when towing, is SPEED.

Go up a hill FAST, and the engine is putting out a lot of energy, and is more likely to overheat.

Go up a hill SLOWLY, and the engine is not working as hard, and will generate less waste heat, and is less likely to overheat.

[Numbchux]

The Subaru accessory hitch is not rated for an ounce more than the car, and vice versa. They do not publish any information about which is the weak link. But it's fairly substantial, replacing the factory bumper beam, and bolting to the ends of the frame rails.

I have no personal experience towing with anything that new, but I do tow all the time with our '04 Outback H6. I have a 3500lb hitch on it, and an auxiliary transmission cooler on it for that reason. We own a 14' Aluminum boat with a 25hp Evinrude on it that I tow at freeway speeds fairly regularly. We brought it camping this summer, with the car loaded with our camping gear (with a toddler...lots of gear), bikes in the boat, etc. I'm sure we were well over GVWR. I had to turn the A/C off on the inclines as things were getting hot, but it was also over 90*F.

 

I put my aunt's 19' Fiberglass deep vee open bow with 85hp Outboard (the internet told me 2500 dry) in the water this spring with it. It did fantastically on the ramp, but the drive was only about 5 miles, at a max of about 35mph.

 

My concern with towing with a newer Outback would be the CVT, as there's potential for a lot of heat build-up there. I'd monitor transmission temperatures VERY closely (OBDII should be able to display this), and adjust driving style accordingly. Early and late in the season means cooler air temperatures, which helps considerably.

Ultimately, if it's a relatively short tow (say, 100 miles or so) and can be done at slower speeds (maybe a scenic route), I wouldn't hesitate to do it....

[golucky66]

You should consider and look at the new Ascent. It's got a 5k towing capability and multiple reviews of launching boats on paved and unpaved (dirt/mud) and the ascent handles both terrains fine.

[jay_fillion]

Thank you to everyone who has commented thus far. 

I should have said that the path to the lake is about 40 miles from where I live.  Most of the roads are back roads, local highway sort of thing.  The speeds are generally 40-50 MPH.  There are a couple big hills, but I can take them slowly.

I would not use this vehicle if I was going any great distance.

Overall it sounds like I shouldn't be TOO worried about my application, as long as I am careful and monitor the status of the car.  Is that a fair summary?

[jay_fillion]

13 minutes ago, golucky66 said:

You should consider and look at the new Ascent. It's got a 5k towing capability and multiple reviews of launching boats on paved and unpaved (dirt/mud) and the ascent handles both terrains fine.

Thanks.  That looks like a nice new vehicle.  I can't afford the extra cost, and the fuel economy would be no better than the Cherokee, which is much less expensive.

With the re-design of the Forrester I wish they had increased the towing capacity on that vehicle.  That would have been a nice way to go.

[forester2002s]

I would go with an aftermarket hitch: Hidden-Hitch, Curt or something similar.

The Class I hitch and the Class II hitch both use a 1.25" fitting.  The Class I is slightly cheaper to buy, but only by a few dollars. I have always bought the Class II as it is more substantial than the Class I.  Both are designed with the same attachment points to the underside of the car.

But, as others have said, it is usually the vehicle's tow rating that governs.

Installing an aftermarket hitch is no big deal, and you can either do it yourself, or get a shop to do it.  Either way, it will be cheaper than getting a Subaru hitch installed at a Subaru dealership.

[Numbchux]

14 hours ago, jay_fillion said:

Thank you to everyone who has commented thus far. 

I should have said that the path to the lake is about 40 miles from where I live.  Most of the roads are back roads, local highway sort of thing.  The speeds are generally 40-50 MPH.  There are a couple big hills, but I can take them slowly.

I would not use this vehicle if I was going any great distance.

Overall it sounds like I shouldn't be TOO worried about my application, as long as I am careful and monitor the status of the car.  Is that a fair summary?

 

Perfect, yea, I wouldn't worry about that tow at all. Use a bluetooth dongle or something to keep an eye on transmission temperatures, go gentle, and it'll be fine.

 

12 hours ago, forester2002s said:

I would go with an aftermarket hitch: Hidden-Hitch, Curt or something similar.

The Class I hitch and the Class II hitch both use a 1.25" fitting.  The Class I is slightly cheaper to buy, but only by a few dollars. I have always bought the Class II as it is more substantial than the Class I.  Both are designed with the same attachment points to the underside of the car.

But, as others have said, it is usually the vehicle's tow rating that governs.

Installing an aftermarket hitch is no big deal, and you can either do it yourself, or get a shop to do it.  Either way, it will be cheaper than getting a Subaru hitch installed at a Subaru dealership.

 

The Subaru accessory hitch is very nice, but it is fairly expensive (they lowered the price considerably last summer, but it's still a bunch). ECOHitch makes a nice 2" version that mounts behind the bumper like the accessory one. Both of those options require taking the bumper cover off to mount, which is how they get a much cleaner install, but much more labor intensive (at the dealership I worked at, we charged 1.6 hours to try to stay competitive, but even the best techs took more than 2 hours).

[idosubaru]

22 hours ago, jay_fillion said:

Overall it sounds like I shouldn't be TOO worried about my application, as long as I am careful and monitor the status of the car.  Is that a fair summary?

Yes, I wouldn't hesitate, no big deal if you just pay a little attention (like chux said above - and ATF cooler is wise if you're going to be doing this in high temps/steep grades).  This is also assuming you're proactive, not easily annoyed, etc.  To the most picky, emotional types of owners I'd suggest playing it safer just so they dont stress themselves out, but that doesn't sound like you. 

I've never weighed the total package - but my boat is 1,000 by itself....add 130 hp motor, trailer, gas, gear, and I'm carrying 5 people it's 2,000....if not 3,000. 
No issues unless it's upper 80's+, high humidity, and 6-7% grades.  which is basically the maximum grade allowed by law on the interstate, not just an average "hill" on the interstate. 

What temps are you going to tow in?
What are the grades of the "hills"?  

Sounds like you might be 500 pounds or so under what I'm usually trying to do as well. 

[jay_fillion]

12 hours ago, idosubaru said:

 

What temps are you going to tow in?
What are the grades of the "hills"?  

 

I really don't know about the grades.  I suppose I'm not really sure where I can find that information on the roads.  There is one steep grade near my home (incline is as you are leaving my home).  It's maybe a 1/4 mile long.  There is a longer hill about half way there, maybe 1/2 a mile but the pitch is not as bad.

 

In terms of temps, it would typically be May or September in New England, so the temps are typically in the 70's or lower.

[jay_fillion]

20 hours ago, Numbchux said:

The Subaru accessory hitch is very nice, but it is fairly expensive (they lowered the price considerably last summer, but it's still a bunch). ECOHitch makes a nice 2" version that mounts behind the bumper like the accessory one. Both of those options require taking the bumper cover off to mount, which is how they get a much cleaner install, but much more labor intensive (at the dealership I worked at, we charged 1.6 hours to try to stay competitive, but even the best techs took more than 2 hours).

I can try to look into the ECOHitch.  Having a 2" would be nice so it can be common with my wife's van.  I would like it to have a clean install.  I might be weary of taking the bumper cover off myself, just because I wouldn't want to mess anything up.  Plus, I can only imagine what my warranty concerns would be.  And, if I end up leasing I think is "no no" for them.  At least it is with my current Nissan vehicle.

[jay_fillion]

20 hours ago, Numbchux said:

Perfect, yea, I wouldn't worry about that tow at all. Use a bluetooth dongle or something to keep an eye on transmission temperatures, go gentle, and it'll be fine.

I'm not following as to how I can watch the transmission temps.  Can I do it through the GUI of the car, or do I pick up some sort of external device to monitor?

[idosubaru]

5 hours ago, jay_fillion said:

It's maybe a 1/4 mile long.  There is a longer hill about half way there, maybe 1/2 a mile but the pitch is not as bad.

In terms of temps, it would typically be May or September in New England, so the temps are typically in the 70's or lower.

You're golden, that's like kindergarten towing.  you're nowhere near 90 degrees. 

and what you're describing sounds like average rolling hills which are benign. i'm talking mountain passes where there are truck pull offs, runaway truck ramps, mandatory truck pull off/brake checks, signage and lights indicating steep grades, etc. 

 

[Numbchux]

I don't believe there's any way to monitor it on the car.

But there are 100s (if not 1000s) of products that work with the OBDII system to monitor it. ScanGauge is a nice self-contained unit, but kind of spendy. I have a bluetooth dongle that I bought on Amazon for $15 or so that allows me to read that stuff on a free app on my phone. For just a few days a year, I'd probably go with the phone app direction.

[idosubaru]

5 hours ago, jay_fillion said:

I'm not following as to how I can watch the transmission temps.  Can I do it through the GUI of the car, or do I pick up some sort of external device to monitor?

chux knows that well, so he'll set you straight but you can get bluetooth/wifi devices that plug into your OBD port and then get an app on your phone (or get a cheap old android for dedicated car use) to monitor the temps.  i think in some ways droids are easier for some apps and you have to decide between getting a bluetooth or wifi interface which has pro's and cons depending whether you're wanting iOS or android....but in reality i'm not well versed in all that - it's confusing and i haven't sat and looked/tried all the options.  

[idosubaru]

2 minutes ago, Numbchux said:

I don't believe there's any way to monitor it on the car.

But there are 100s (if not 1000s) of products that work with the OBDII system to monitor it. ScanGauge is a nice self-contained unit, but kind of spendy. I have a bluetooth dongle that I bought on Amazon for $15 or so that allows me to read that stuff on a free app on my phone. For just a few days a year, I'd probably go with the phone app direction.

you use droid or ios?  i bought both of those adapters but haven't tried them or gotten an app yet. 

[Numbchux]

Android. Using an ELM327 protocol adapter. Primarily using the App "Piston".

[jay_fillion]

On 8/2/2018 at 9:36 AM, Numbchux said:

 

ECOHitch makes a nice 2" version that mounts behind the bumper like the accessory one. Both of those options require taking the bumper cover off to mount, which is how they get a much cleaner install, but much more labor intensive (at the dealership I worked at, we charged 1.6 hours to try to stay competitive, but even the best techs took more than 2 hours).

I'm looking at perhaps picking up a used vehicle with less than 4k miles from a different dealer (Nissan).  If I do this I need to determine how to get the hitch added.  If I get the ECOHitch where can I go to get installed that would be willing to deal with the bumper?  And does that void warranty?

[Numbchux]

11 hours ago, jay_fillion said:

I'm looking at perhaps picking up a used vehicle with less than 4k miles from a different dealer (Nissan).  If I do this I need to determine how to get the hitch added.  If I get the ECOHitch where can I go to get installed that would be willing to deal with the bumper?  And does that void warranty?

That's completely dependent on the dealership. The Subaru dealership where I worked was willing to do jobs like that on other vehicles, so that Nissan dealership might be willing. Just start asking/calling around. The Subaru dealership is going to be very familiar with the process of pulling the bumper, since they probably do a few every day.

AFAIK, that would only effect warranty if it's directly related, BUT I never worked in service so I don't know the details of warranty work, so call your dealership. There is some gray area, and if you've done all your maintenance at the dealership, they're more likely to cover something like that then if you just show up for the free stuff. I do know that should they need to remove it for warranty or recall work, if it's an aftermarket hitch the extra labor is on you, and if it's an OE that's covered. But I can't imagine what kind of recall/warranty work would require removing the hitch....

[idosubaru]

if you're worried about warranty let the dealer do it and ask them first. 

technically speaking if you get a bumper installed then the installing facility is responsible for warrantying anything related to the hitch and install (if they provide warranty for that) and the manufacturer of the hitch warranties the hitch. 

you can't install an aftermarket part with a 3rd party installer and expect a dealer or vehicle manufacturer to warranty that other companies aftermarket parts and some other facilities work - that's crazy.  

Manufacturers will still warranty systems not impacted by the hitch/install - you can't be denied warranty for a headlight because of a hitch installation for instance.  It doesn't make sense and they'd suffer massive backlash if that was nominal ops. 

so - technically speaking it could, and should, work out fine - each respective entity warranties their end product or service. 

But if you're the worrying type, an accountant, or aren't well versed in understanding and addressing any possible pitfalls - you are entering ambiguous, contentious, and gray areas by assuming these three places all play nice together. 

So - you're probably better off letting a dealer handle all that if you're concerned about warranty and not comfortable understanding or wading through those nuances and potential complications. But it's also not hard to do what you suggested and not worry about it.  Depends largely on your personality, preferences, and capabilities. 

[jay_fillion]

So I finally ended up on a new vehicle, and I bought the hitch from the dealership so I wouldn't need to worry about it.  What I didn't realize until the end is that it didn't come with the ball or arm.  I have a ball to use... now I need to find a class II arm.  Awesome.

[jay_fillion]

Update... The sales person was wrong and it did include the hitch.  They just hid it in with the spare.

 

Next week I'll try to buy a OBD device.

[jay_fillion]

Sorry for another question.  I pulled out the manual today and for the first time I saw reference to the tow rating requiring trailer brakes.  Is this something I need to get added to this trailer before use, and if so how much of an ordeal is it?