carfreak85 Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 3 hours ago, forester2002s said: This might be the EndWrench article that you refer to. WhBearRep.pdf That's the wheel bearing article, not the head gasket article. I saved that one already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 @GeneralDisorder Any chance you have the EndWrench block resurfacing procedure handy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 he has this awesome thread; Might touch on block prep somewhere in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 You just clean it with the white 3M bristle wheel. That's all you can do without complete block disassembly. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 I'm just afraid to screw something up without reading the actual procedure. I was hoping someone with a bit more access would have the procedure. Lets hope I still have some junk cylinder heads sitting around that I can experiment on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 It would be pretty hard to screw anything up using those. You are just polishing up the surface a bit and removing any old gasket residue. Put rags in the cylinders. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 Ok, any advice on this would be helpful: I'm having a devil of a time getting the rear main seal out. I read that you don't need to touch it unless it's leaking, but with 207k+ on this engine, I figured I might as well. After buying the Leslie tool and trying about 15 times, I'm basically just destroying the seal without actually getting it to move at all. Front main came out without issues, but it almost feels like the seal is glued/staked in place, but I don't see any adhesive residue. I haven't touched the cam seals yet, but the one I peeked at does have some reddish sealant (maybe Loctite seal glue?) around the outside seal surface. Any tips for getting the rear main seal out? Buy a second Leslie tool and use both at the same time 180* apart? Light the whole thing on fire and pray to the gods of Fuji? Halp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 I would try a normal seal puller..... maybe a large flat blade screwdriver.... I hesitate to make these suggestions because it does require a good amount of force but a gentle touch as to not mar up the crank or seal pocket. It's a bit like a game of Operation but with less buzzers and more consequences...... Yeah you shouldn't have touched it. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 I used a medium flat blade inserted into one of the Leslie tool's gouge marks in the seal and careful but firm prying in a few different parts of the seal. It finally creaked and started backing out of the block, no damage that I can tell. I have a PVC pipe coupler to install the new seal and I know I need to be concerned with the install depth. Any other tips? Assembly lube on the inside lip of the seal for sure, but should I install the seal with a dry outer surface? How do the cam seals compare to the crank seals? I've heard they're pretty easy to mess up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Outer lip of the seal needs to be dry or it may tend to squirt back out. They go in with a fair amount of force (compression) and any lube can make the job impossible. Dow Corning Molykote 111 for the lip. Should be installed just on the inside edge of the chamfer. With the Viton cam/crank seals we don't touch them unless we need to take apart the head or replace the oil pump. If you do - same procedure, just find a socket that fits. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 I bought a tube of the Dow Corning lube, do you use it on anything but the inside lip of the seals? Any thoughts on cleaning the cylinder heads/block after lapping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) We use the 111 on all o-rings, lip seals, oil filter gaskets, thermostat gaskets, etc. Especially any Buna-N (Nitrile) seals. It keeps oxygen from getting at them, which is what ultimately speeds up the hardening and cracking process. We also use it for all dielectric applications since it's a silicone grease. It's food grade so I'm told it goes well with toast. Seriously we love it and use that $hit on EVERYTHING. That and Yield are probably my two favorite shop chems. Also Amsoil HD Metal Protector. We clean them with a lint-free paper towel and brake cleaner because it's a fast evaporating degreaser that leaves no residue and we buy brake clean by the 55 gal drum. We found that our bathroom paper towels that I buy from Costco are essentially lint free. Georgia Pacific Marathon Dispenser Roll Towels. LOL. Cheap too. GD Edited October 25, 2018 by GeneralDisorder 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 ^^^ those kind of tips can mean a lot to us DIYers, thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 CAMSHAFT SEALS!!! I hate these things... It's as if they're baked into the heads and that camshaft poking over an inch up out of the center of the seal is a real pain in the butt. I need to find the spare hook that came with the Lisle tool because I bent the original one and scored the cam snout a bit right under the lip of the seal. FAAK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Try just using a large flat-head screwdriver, or you can drill tiny holes in the seal, thread in some small screws, and use pliers to work them out. The lisle tool is great for some applications but honestly those applications usually aren't Subaru's. Much like the rear main - shouldn't have touched them. The Viton is pretty much a lifetime seal on a well-maintained engine. Only time I've seen them fail is due to excessive carbon and sludge in the oil - leading to scoring of the shaft and abrasion of the seal lip. GD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 I'll give the screw driver a try, but there doesn't seem to be any good way to hook the seal with the camshaft snout poking out as far as it does. Ideally I'd be prying straight across the seal's surface, but with the cam in the way, I'd have to have the screwdriver almost 45 degrees from the seal's centerline, a real recipe for damage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 It's kindof a learned skill.... but yeah you will have to grab just the edge of the seal without touching the cam. Turn the screwdriver sideways obviously. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 12 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said: It's kindof a learned skill.... but yeah you will have to grab just the edge of the seal without touching the cam. Turn the screwdriver sideways obviously. GD I've got a couple hours to mull over my course of action before I'll be in front of the heads again. Will probably throw some gorilla tape on the cam for protection, just to hedge my bets on my ham-fists slipping... That said, what does GD recommend for scratched cam snouts? Emory cloth it smooth? Any fillers, or just get it flat and pray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvu Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 hour ago, carfreak85 said: I'll give the screw driver a try, but there doesn't seem to be any good way to hook the seal with the camshaft snout poking out as far as it does. Ideally I'd be prying straight across the seal's surface, but with the cam in the way, I'd have to have the screwdriver almost 45 degrees from the seal's centerline, a real recipe for damage... Cut up a credit card, jam in between seal and snout, pry all you want with screwdriver. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I will file the area with a small diamond points file and then use some emery cloth and scotch brite. Honestly scratches aren't that big of a deal as long as you ensure no rough burrs or raised edges that will damage the seal. GD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 OK, great progress this weekend! Got the seals replaced, heads torqued on (with zero bolt creaking!). I did notice late on Saturday that my dealership parts guy forgot to include the toothed timing belt idler pulley, so had to go with a Gates Chinese pulley from NAPA on that one. Now I just need to do some cleanup around the engine bay and drop the engine back in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) Eh - the toothed sprocket is the most common failure item - more so than the water pump or the belt. That is the very last part I would consider replacing with Chinese. The parts graveyard in my lobby has several with seized bearings and some with no bearings left in them. And I've thrown dozens away that were similar. GD Edited November 5, 2018 by GeneralDisorder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 5 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said: Eh - the toothed sprocket is the most common failure item - more so than the water pump or the belt. That is the very last part I would consider replacing with Chinese. The parts graveyard in my lobby has several with seized bearings and some with no bearings left in them. And I've thrown dozens away that were similar. GD Well, that really sucks to read, but its too F**KING late for this engine, TB covers are back on and the pulley has been paid for and installed... Maybe when the TB is due for replacement we'll switch back to OEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 If it makes it another 105k with a Chinese cogged..... maybe. I know *Dealers* that will replace the belt and the cogged idler only. Because ultimately the primary failure in the system is the cogged idler - the belt is only replaced because the service manual says it's due every 105k. The reality is that the cogged is THE most important item to replace when doing this job. I would pull it back out. GD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 do your next TB service at 60k or 75k miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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