Couple questions about 83 4wd transmissions

[ErikAnderson]

I have a 1983 Subaru GL wagon, manual with 4wd. 

Im considering selling it and am trying to get some issues resolved.  

 

1) sometimes when I put it in reverse (low rpm and from a stop) it slides in like butter. Other times it grinds like the devil. Sometimes I can stop it from grinding by momentarily shifting into another gear while keeping the clutch pressed. Other times this will not work.  

2) sometimes when shifting gears (1-4) it is smooth and easy, other times it fights me to no end.  

3) moving it in and out of 4WD is frankly terrifying. The whole car will shudder and leap when I transition with an accompanying loud BANG! (especially out of 4wd)  I’m doing it from a stop. Should it only be done on dirt/soft ground? I had a 4wd brat and don’t remember that.

I changed the transmission fluid, no change. 

 

I’m a mechanical guy but this wishy-washy behavior has me confused.  It SEEMS to shift better on a fresh start but will sometimes shift perfectly when the car is running for a long time. 

Nothing is consistent.  

Is this just an old Subaru thing? I had a 2wd DL that never acted like this though. 

Does my clutch need to be adjusted? Do I need a new clutch? Is there ANY chance I can get past this without opening up the transmission?

Edited August 17, 2018 by ErikAnderson

[DaveT]

I never had an 83... But I had older and newer.  None ever had any weird effects switching in and out of 4WD on the fly.  Best to switch on straightaways, as opposed to sharp curves.
miss matched tires or gear ratios if a trans  or rear diff was swapped with the wrong one can cause binding and difficulty switching out, and weird handling.

 

[BEECHBM69]

The shift linkage is notorious for getting loose, which makes for some interesting shifting, but that doesn't come and go, it just is. (At least in my experience.)

I wonder if you've got motor and trans mounts that have gone bad allowing for things to move around under certain conditions? Sometimes it's sitting where it's supposed to, and other times maybe it's askew enough to cause issues? Not something I remember reading about, but it would allow for the inconsistency. 

Good luck!

Dan

[ErikAnderson]

Thanks for the replies. 

I got some things I need to check.  It’s super funky because yea sometimes it shifts sweeter than a mother’s love.  Other times I think I’m done for. 

[el_freddo]

Worn synchros are the reason for the crunchy/hard gear shifts. If you earn to rev match and double clutch when down shifting you'll eliminate the difficult gear changes. 

Rev matching on "up changes" will help too. 

If there are whining noises in one particular gear plus always nasty gear changes up or down to that gear, it would indicate impending failure of that gear. This is from ONE experience I had with my L series 5 spd dual range box. 

Before it happened (600ish km), EVERY change to this gear had to be rev matched. Not much fun in mountainous driving. Worse was when the box let go in the middle of the remote 4wd track we headed out to!

As for swapping out of 4wd - always on the fly! Gentle pressure on the lever will get it out no worries and can create a bang sound as the binding in the system is released. Higher the speed, generally the less noise. Corrugations are great for reducing bind in the 4wd system before disengaging it

Cheers

Bennie

[ErikAnderson]

So here are some updates.  I can get it to shift pretty good if I pump the clutch. I had a lot of deadband in the pedal and took most of it out.  

The underside where the shifting mechanism goes into the transmission looks awful, oil and slime everywhere. 

I kinda want to drop the transmission since I have a new clutch just sitting around.  Do these cars have a clutch master or slave cyl? Is it located inside the transmission? 

 

Im going to change the clutch on my WRX here in a few weeks so I may as well get back into practice. 

[ErikAnderson]

[el_freddo]

Cable clutch. Not hydro. 

The wrx clutch is a whole different kettle of fish!

Cheers

Bennie

[ErikAnderson]

Yeah that’s what it looked like to me I just did not know if there was some internal magic going on. 

Okay so serious question then, why can i feel the feedback on the clutch pedal stiffen up and shifting become smoother when I pump it a few times? 

At this point I’m starting to convince myself that dropping the transmission, swapping in a new clutch is a good idea.  Hell if anything it will let me clean the whole thing up and seal any leaks.  

 

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by ErikAnderson

[el_freddo]

I'd inspect the clutch pedal mounts first, then the cable (replace if history is unknown) and then the clutch itself after pulling the box or the engine.

The clutch might have some broken or well worn fingers/springs that the fingers act on - maybe. It could be worth swapping it out while you've got it all apart.

You'd go nuts if you didn't find anything on your inspections, checked and put the old clutch pressure plate back in only to find the same issue is there!

Better to rule it out if you don't find an issue in other parts of the clutch system (pedal/cable).

Cheers

Bennie

[czny]

Diaphragm clutches sometimes crack radially - crack from center to outer edge of diaphragm spring. Over time the friction disc wears unevenly causing inconsistent disengagement - one time the clutch cover plate lines up parallel with friction disc & flywheel, another time it doesn't. A hit or miss alignment.

Some import clutch mfrs are notorious for short lived clutches. Their diaphragm springs are not QC'ed well.  

Edited August 23, 2018 by czny

[ErikAnderson]

Okay I feel good about this.  I have the clutch and all its bits sitting the garage. Must have bought it years ago. 

Btw the clutches for these cars are adorable. Like a tiny little pizza. Pretty sure the clutch in my motorcycle has more surface area.  

Now I’ll debate over dropping the transmission or pulling the motor.  I’m pretty sure I can lower out the transmission my self, I’m thinking around 100 lbs.  I’ll still need a hoist for the motor. 

I’ll figure it out and get it taken care of this weekend maybe. 

Thanks!

[jono]

42 kg for EA81 dual range four speed up to 56 kg EA82 DR 5 MT

[ErikAnderson]

Thanks for the info. Sounds like I can just lower it down onto my lap 

 

most likely I’ll be dropping it sun/mon

i need to replace some cv boots and inspect the joints inside as well but fingers crossed it fixes the problem. 

[el_freddo]

Don't underestimate the weight of that box. Even if it is 40 or so kg, that's a lot of solid weight to have on you from under the vehicle. 

Use a trolley jack as a minimum or better yet is using a motor cycle jack.  

Cheers

Bennie 

[ErikAnderson]

Pulled the transmission.  

The replacement clutch I have is the wrong size even though online it says it’s a match. Existing clutch disc is around 9” replacement is 7 7/8” the pressure plate is quite smaller as well. 

A bit frustrated right now. Any ideas?  When I look up clutch info it keeps giving me this 7 7/8 size. 

Gonna resize some pics and stop for the day. Tomorrow I’ll just start degreasing everything. 

[ErikAnderson]

Hiss.  

[el_freddo]

There are two different clutch sizes for the MY series. Typically the smaller is the 2wd and I believe the early 4wd unit.

I can't see anything wrong with that pressure plate going by the pics but that doesn't mean much. 

Have you had time to look at the other components in the clutch system?

Cheers

Bennie

[ErikAnderson]

Okay I see that now. I must have picked this clutch up for my 2wd DL years ago. Thought I could get lucky. Oh well. 

Heh, anyone want to trade???

 

I’ll start cleaning and inspecting stuff this week as it’s clear I’ll not be ready to install anytime soon.  

 

Lets talk transmission guts?  I’m a technician but not an automotive one.  If I open that transmission:

a) with the availability of parts for these cars will I be able to actually repair anything. 

B) will I bite off more than I can chew from the moment I open it? 

I have access to a pretty stocked factory shop and some smart folks if I need to.  

 

What do your folks suggest?

[el_freddo]

.A) what needs repairing?

.B) everyone is with the 4 speed box. Your efforts would be better spent on fitting the L series 5spd box. At least there's some hope if you open up one of these

Cheers

Bennie

[ErikAnderson]

A) I may have synchro issues 

b) and then I’m going to be dealing with adapter kits, mismatched clutches and tears. 

[el_freddo]

.B) read up on the conversion process (search the forum). Not overly difficult. And a lot less difficult than pulling a 4spd apart for some worn synchros. 

Cheers

Bennie

[ErikAnderson]

I get it, the issue is that I’m on a time table.  I’m looking to sell this car and want it running safely and properly prior to doing so. 

The sooner it is running the sooner I can get my wrx in the garage and change out the totally wasted clutch in it.  It’s slipping all over the place.  

Once I’m down to two cars I can get the paint restored on my wife’s car and start garage parking it. Then she’s happy and I can put together a motorcycle and restore it.  

I know what you’re saying but if I can open up the transmission and put in some new synchros I’ll be happier than tracking down a new transmission and going through the associated drama with that.  

At some point I’ll get another old subie but my use for it is starting to fade now that my dog is old. Right now I just want to sell it and feel like I’m not screwing someone over. 

[el_freddo]

@ErikAnderson - ok with more background context it makes sense. 

In that case find a decent used 4spd to bolt straight in because I can tell you now that if you open up a 4spd to service it you'll not have your wrx or your wife's car sorted anytime soon to start working on your motorbike. 

If you were keeping it, which I thought you were, my above recommendation for the 5spd stands. 

Or just save your time and sell it with a couple of crunchy gears. They can't be THAT bad can they?

Cheers

Bennie

[ErikAnderson]

Man I’d love to find a replacement four speed.  That’s getting harder and harder. I’m looking though.