Second question to SofA! Usless!

[SubeeTed]

This IS the second quetion I asked him after he didn't answer my first questions about Phase I engines!:

 

The following message was received by SOAMail:

 

 

 

Hi John.

Thanks for the reply.

From what I understand the situation you describe below is only in

refrence

to Phae II engines. I'm looking into a car the a Phase I engine. What

is the

difficulty with this head gasket situation?

Many thanks, Ted

 

 

This is his reply!:

Hello Ted:

 

I apologize for not responding to your question correctly. As you can

imagine, most questions about head gaskets have been in regards to this

Service Program. As for Phase I engines, we are not aware of any

recurring

problem with the head gaskets in these models, which is why we do not

have a

Service Program for them.

 

Thanks for the opportunity to be of assistance. If you need any future

assistance, please feel free to contact us again.

 

Best wishes,

 

John J. Mergen

Subaru of America, Inc.

 

 

 

[gravelRX]

Please post his Email address on USMB. I'm sure there are quite a few people that could maybe clue him in.

 

 

Not like he doesn't know already!

 

Jay

[theotherskip]

after getting a nice reply from soa where they were "not aware of a known condition with head gasket failures at this time," i decided to start keeping a list. i count 58 listing of 96-98 (some of the 99's were phase I's, some were II's. i was just doing a quick count, so i omitted them). hopefully everyone who has signed the guestbook has been writing to subaru and including the list to let them know, so they can't pull the "we haven't heard of any..." line anymore.

 

you can view the guestbook here:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze730qe/guestlog.html

 

post or pm his email to me. i'd love to have a chat with him...

[blitz]

Thanks for doing that Skip.

[Ranger83]

I keep asking my mechanics if they are seeing problems with Subaru head gaskets, and they keep saying "no." Mine has 139,000 miles on it. I had the camshaft seals replaced at 106K, but haven't seen any problems with the head gaskets yet, although one of my 8 friends with OBW's did have the problem at 165K miles. Another with 192K has not.

[Hondasucks]

I wonder how the head gasket failures on the stage I engines relate to cooling system maintenance. Those of you on here wiht no problems, do you change your coolant every two years or 24,000 miles like you are suposed to? Those of you who have had problems, any idea when the last time the cooling system was serviced was??

[calebz]

I talked to a service tech at a Soob dealership.. I was calling about something else completely and as an aside, I mentioned the Phase I HG problem.. He asked what year phase I I had..when I told him I didn't own one, he breathed a sigh of relief and said they have serviced 'a large number' of Phase I head gaskets.. but officially there was no problem. He went on to tell me that had I been an owner of one of the vehicles in question, he was to deny any knowledge of a know problem and quote full price for repair.

 

Maybe BS, but I know the guy and he's not BS'd me about anything else that I'm aware of.

 

Due to the nature of the info given, I am unwilling to post what dealership this ocurred at.. I will say it was somewhere between seattle and Dallas.

[GeneralDisorder]

Wow - that's just devious Caleb. I hope SOA burns for this BS.

 

Gawd I love my EA81's.....

 

GD

[PAezb]

I wonder how the head gasket failures on the stage I engines relate to cooling system maintenance. Those of you on here wiht no problems, do you change your coolant every two years or 24,000 miles like you are suposed to? Those of you who have had problems, any idea when the last time the cooling system was serviced was??

Flushing and changing coolant on regular intervals is always good practice. But according to the numerous Subie mechanics and sales people I've spoken to, the main HG issue is more to do with the expanding/contracting of the engine block and heads - especially when the engine heats up rapidly.

 

With the above in mind, the concensus is that we Subie owners/drivers are to blame. When starting the car with a cold engine, the driver should let the engine idle and warm up for a few minutes before taking off, especially when the climate is cold. It's the driver and how hard they drive the engine right after a cold startup over time, that results in premature HG failure.

 

In addition and compounding the problem, one person I spoke to at a dealership suggested that the engine block and heads are of slightly different alloys, allowing different rates of expansion and contraction during heating up/cooling down. But I have not been able to confirm this.

 

I guess I must of treated my 96 2.5 OBW decently as my HG failure didn't occur until the car was 8 yrs old with 140k miles.

My opinion though is the HGs should be a non-issue for the life of the car/engine, regardless of how hard it's been driven.

[99obw]

I am very meticulous about maintanence and the gaskets failed anyway. All fluids; coolant, tranny, diffs, engine oil, brake fluid, are absolutely perfect. The warm up thing may be an issue as my wife thinks 4 revolutions of an engine is a warmup. I tell her, "At least wait until the piston slap quiets down a little, and take it easy for the first few miles." Oh well.

 

When I did the gaskets I talked to one of the parts guys about the gaskets. I asked him, "Do you sell a lot of these?", he looked around once to make sure no one was listening and said "Yep, they have changed them six times."

 

I know only one person that currently has a Phase I 2.5 and their gaskets failed and were replaced. I think the problem is much more widespread than SOA and many subaru diehards would have you believe. A friend of mine is an auctioneer and he sees them regularly at auto auctions, running fine but with the gaskets blown. I will almost guarantee that many Phase I owners are driving with mildly blown gaskets, as I think our gaskets were going for quite a while before they catastrophically failed, based on residue in the coolant expansion tank.

[calebz]

One thing I forgot.

 

The tech in question told me this apparently wasn't an issue for our japanese counterparts.

 

He suggested that the problem stemmed from improper torque from the factory.

 

 

 

PS.. for whoever it was that said 'non- issue'

Umm.. I hate to tell you this, but thats a non-word.

Its one of those trendy sayings that some manager created to make himself sound important.

[PAezb]

One thing I forgot.

 

The tech in question told me this apparently wasn't an issue for our japanese counterparts.

 

He suggested that the problem stemmed from improper torque from the factory.

 

 

 

PS.. for whoever it was that said 'non- issue'

Umm.. I hate to tell you this, but thats a non-word.

Its one of those trendy sayings that some manager created to make himself sound important.

That's me and I have to chuckle... haven't you ever played Office BS Bingo?

 

Improper torque is another item to add to list for possible causes, as is the redesign/revisions of the HG as mentioned by 99obw above.

[theotherskip]

if the matter was improper torque, i deeply hope they would have figured it out by now. i think it is a larger problem...

[Commuter]

My dealer acknowledged a LOT of HG replacements in 2002. The prior year, very few, and they said that those were cars that were not dealer maintained, probably had old coolant etc. But the rash of failures came for them in 2002.

 

In my research, I found suspicion of head bolt torque issues (procedure as well as value) as it pertains to the failures. This came from 2 totally different sources. Whether the current procedure, with the current part no. is ok, I don't know. I hope so... or mine will fail again.

 

It's over 2 years and 130,000 kms since my HG's were changed. I have my fingers crossed.

 

Commuter

[myles]

One thing I forgot.

 

The tech in question told me this apparently wasn't an issue for our japanese counterparts.

 

He suggested that the problem stemmed from improper torque from the factory.

 

 

 

PS.. for whoever it was that said 'non- issue'

Umm.. I hate to tell you this, but thats a non-word.

Its one of those trendy sayings that some manager created to make himself sound important.

 

The engines and transmissions for USDM Legacys are assembled in Japan.

[slo5oh]

Paezb nailed it.

 

I have a bone stock 2.5 RS, but I've raced 5.0 mustangs for years. If you are having head gasket failure you have to look at the gasket and see where the failure is occurring, compare it with others that are having this problem and maybe find a solution. It could be a problem with fuel delivery to that piston, or maybe too much cyl pressure from carbon buildup, cross firing spark plugs.. there's a million things it could be. Post a pic up to a website and link it to this forum, that's what a bunch of mustang guys do on a good mustang site I go on. There are so many situations that will cause HG failure. From my own experiences blowing out O-grooved HG in a supercharged 5.0 after only a few months I've lived and learned. If you can put an image of it up for everyone to see it's easier to figure out what happened. The first rule I learned in going fast, use your friends knowledge. Every problem I ever had someone already solved before I had it. If you don't have any friends that know... then see if someone on this site can help you.

 

slo5oh