What to look for when buying a Loyale

[Vneva]

I am considering purchase of a Loyale wagon. I have driven a 1992 recently (Sept 2018) with an automatic in Wisconsin. I liked the size and handling. With over 200000 miles the car was tight and drove well. It had been an Oregon car before it was brought to Wisconsin. I didn’t think much of the automatic. 

I plan to look in Oregon and Washington. I want one with minimum corrosion and working or repairable AC. Is there somewhere else I should look?

What should I watch for?  What is repairable?  What isn’t. 

I have a background working as an aircraft mechanic. 

Thanks

[DaveT]

More and more parts for these are going no longer available.   So be ready to scrounge make and adapt parts.

They have a few quirks.  There are many threads covering them.  They are not a big deal once you know them, but you can't expect to get parts in a day for much any more.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Look for a Legacy. The EA82 chassis is a dead platform with little to no parts availability. Working AC is unlikely and converting from R12 to R134 is easily a $1k+ proposition. With how inexpensive Legacy's are it's crazy to buy a Loyale. 95 to 99 Legacy's are SUPER cheap and already have easily repaired R134 systems and MUCH more reliable drive-trains with excellent parts availability. 

GD

Edited October 8, 2018 by GeneralDisorder

[Dee2]

what's your budget ?

[Subasaurus]

as cool as a Loyale looks, i pulled out of the (third Generation) it wasn't worth it for me to be getting parts shipped around for this early 90's vehicle, so i instead went older into the 70's to be worth my time, just the way i looked at the situation.

if you do get it, parts is an adventure in itself! but it's a really cool boxy vehicle to drive around

[Vneva]

 

5 hours ago, Dee2 said:

what's your budget ?

What do you think it would take?  I have seen some listed that seemed decent in Portland, Seattle and Spokane in the $1500-$2000 range.  I have found in buying older cars that I need to put more in after buying one.  The one I drove in Wisconsin had come from the Portland area, had 212,000 miles and was in good shape.  The owner had it listed for $1500 which seemed reasonable but I really wanted one with a manual transmission.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Vneva

[GeneralDisorder]

That's insane. Those cars are worth nothing more than scrap value. Seriously it's a horrible idea. Get a Legacy, Forester, etc. 

What are you trying to accomplish with buying a dead platform for 1000% more than its worth? These cars have about 90 HP, and you can't get any parts to fix them properly. Try to find a decent drive axle.... or an engine oil pump... you can't maintain them in a meaningful way. 

[charles_thomas]

With due respect, Why are you still active on a forum for a car that you clearly have now formed a great aversion to? 

Its those negative comments that drive people away.

If you are going to attack someone for wanting a specific vehicle, perhaps your time would be better spent on the sections of the forum not specifically for THAT vehicle? 

Just seems like that behavior is Insane, but maybe I'm just grumpy today. 

-Charlie

[DaveT]

I always figure that any used car over 5 or so years old, plan on putting another $1000.00 into.  That's parts, doing your own work, not taking to a shop.  That's from a few decades of life experience.

In these old ones, it will vary widely based on how well the previous owner maintained it. 

BUT the $ is not the main challenge.   The parts availability is.  I like these models, I run 2 of them.  I occasionally have people asking about them, "oh, I remember mine"  etc.  So surprised to see one here in CT.  I have 2 partly  because if one develops a problem, I have the other to get around in while I wait for / make / recondition parts.    I don't have to get emissions tested any more.  I don't want air bags.  I have made or bought all of the special tools.  I know the quirks to watch and work around.  I have engine and drive line parts from several that I retired due to the body rusting away.   I have factory service manuals that I bought from a dealer, way back when I got the first couple.  You will want a set but you have to search for online scans, or watch ebay, etc. 

As much as I like them for me, I want to be sure that someone new knows the challenges involved in maintaining one.  It is going to be difficult finding a mechanic that really knows these old ones also, so plan on being your own mechanic, or spending LOTS of cash.

Any hose, seal, gasket older than 10 years probably should be replaced.  Radiator condition.  #1 way to blow head gaskets is to neglect the cooling system.   Radiator must be in very good to new condition.  All SEVEN cooling system hoses should be no older than 10 years.  Any EA82 I've ever owned needed a reseal from the head gaskets up by 10 years old / 150K miles if for no other reason than oil leaking everywhere.  Timing belts every 50K miles if you want to be on the higher side of reliability.  Alternators wear out a brush at about 150K miles like clockwork.  Don't use cheap parts. 

If you have time, space, and other transport for down time, great, we'll help.  If you need one reliable car, have no shop, no garage, and can't miss a day or 2 from work, not the best idea....

[Vneva]

I see value in GDs comments.  He had the Loyale/GL platform at one time and he decided to move away from it for the reasons he states.  His reasons are valid.  But they are equally valid reasons to not buy and maintain any old machine.  With a car that ceased production in 1994 the lack of specific parts may be a good reason to stay away.  But, as to the value, the market is the market.  It seems like many of these are coming in under $1,000 but ones that are not rotten and seem to have been well maintained are going for higher prices.

Some people are sticking with this GL/Loyale and keeping them running.  I liked driving the one I did.  My sense from talking with the owner was that he was able to find parts when he needed them or make due with substitutes.  There are many aspects of the simplicity of the GL/Loyale that appeals to me.  I do need to admit that I fly a 1946 Piper J-3.  Low power, slow, uncomfortable, etc. Sometimes tricky to find parts for and maintain.  Sometimes when flying about 1000 ft AGL I fly along a freeway so the movement of my shadow can be compared to the speed of the traffic.  I need a tailwind to move faster then the cars.  So why maintain and fly this plane?  In the past I have owned a 59 MGA, a 64 Porsche, a 65 Beetle and a 64 Corvair and a 73 Austin Mini. I rode a Yamaha XS650.  All quirky rides.  My daily drive today is a Toyota.  There are members on the forum who like the GL/Loyale and are driving and maintaining them. 

[Dee2]

1 hour ago, Vneva said:

What do you think it would take?  I have seen some listed that seemed decent in Portland, Seattle and Spokane in the $1500-$2000 range.  I have found in buying older cars that I need to put more in after buying one.  The one I drove in Wisconsin had come from the Portland area, had 212,000 miles and was in good shape.  The owner had it listed for $1500 which seemed reasonable but I really wanted one with a manual transmission.

Sounds like you have ample budget so you can be selective.  I have found spare parts for mine, including the oil pump.  Almost all old cars are dead platforms.  That doesn't mean you can't still enjoy them.

[el_freddo]

Sounds like you need to look further abroad for spare parts. I don't have trouble getting ball joints, tie rods, suspension bushes etc. I can't comment on the oil pumps as I run an EJ22 in my L. A very worth while conversion for the L in my opinion. GD will say go the legacy on that front too. 

Best of luck with your hunt for a good unit  I love my L and I hope you do too after buying another one

Cheers

Bennie

[GeneralDisorder]

Yes it sounds like you are well equipped to deal with these then. I am mostly cautioning prospective buyers of "cheap" older Subaru's that these are a poor choice for someone looking for a first car, or a daily driver, etc. They are NOT that. 

I know it sounds silly, but the EA82 chassis is not the one you want if you want simplicity and frustration free. You want the EA81 chassis for that. Look for a really nice 82 to 84 GL wagon, or hatch. The EA81 is a much easier engine to work on than the EA82 and to some extent has more support. No timing belts and much easier to work on. Still going to be hard to find parts but if you have the money anything can be found or made. I still maintain and drive a lifted EA81 hatchback. Contrary to what people think around here - I don't hate them. I just see the reality of the situation and that reality is these are not for most people anymore. They are for collectors, folks with lots of parts, time, and money to maintain them. I have customer that pay me to work on their EA chassis cars and the bills are OUTRAGEOUS. Because no other shops have the knowledge or know where to the get the parts anymore. Trust me - I couldn't afford to pay myself to work on these cars. 

GD

[alexbuoy]

I love my Loyale although its sitting in the garage with no engine and transmission. I have no issues finding parts here in California and they are extremely hard to come by here (you PNW people are lucky). But I do have a massive stockpile of parts. If you want one, get one, they are incredible vehicles. I liked the EA82 engine more than my EA81 in my brat, carbs suck. Best setup for EA82 IMO is ej22 with the stock 5 speed transmission. Don't bother with the 3 speed auto ea82's, they are slow as piss. EA82 chassis is hands down my favorite vehicle, I think I prefer it over my Brat.