mickytrus Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Hello! Yeah, put the 1.8l back in the subie this weekend...... Went rather well... till now............... Don't know what to think.... Don't really want to think the worst but............ it seems sort of eminent............... Anyway, thought the gas was bad...... I drove it home in Feb from the place I purchased it........ it ran ok..... car sat for about a year or so before that........... just like to leak oil................................... I replaced the gaskets in the motor inside and out, top to bottom, bottom to top......... Had the heads resurfaced... Used OEM gaskets.......... Felt like I was doing the right thing.... Had some questions...... sought out answers.... etc... etc.... So........... I thought it might be bad gas.................... drained the tank...... Didn't take out the tank......... so maybe there is still some (bad gas if that is the problem) still in the tank Oh, here is the problem....... It is smoking some thick smoke..... Maybe it is anti-freeze........ I hope not... but lets not be in denile here.......... maybe it is......... the motor is pretty tight now...... maybe it is sucking it in from some crack that was overseen by the machine shop...... I don't know.................................. Lets just say this........... after I drained the gas........... and put in two gallons.... it ran good for about a minute...... I advanced the timing.... still ran good ............ then it started to smoke again.......... and it wont Idle..................... So any clues anything I can check would be greatly appreciated........ Micky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 What car? Model and Year? Fuel Injected, Carbed, Turbo?? What color is the smoke? GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickytrus Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 sorry ! 91 subie Loyale........ fuel injection...... Smoke is sort of on the white side........ very thick it billows out of the garage....... takes a while to dissipate........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef_tim Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I've had that happen when replacing intake gaskets, you get antifreeze in the head and it smokes for awhile. Any chance you got some in there???? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Well - white smoke certainly could be coolant. Is it losing coolant? Can you run it long enough to see if the coolant level goes down? A coolant leak big enough to cause a billowing cloud of white smoke shouldn't be terribly hard to locate...... intake manifold gaskets are a good thing to check, but if you don't find it there, check the oil to see if any coolant is mixing with it... that would indicate a HG problem. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickytrus Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 I wish I could say it was that.... the juice slipped in while doing the intake..... but.... the motor was out and disassebled on the bench.... put back together..... sat on the bench for about 3 or 4 months...... oiled it up good..... vaseline in the oil pump...... I squirted a bunch of oil in the cylinders........ schrugg? Yeah, I guess I don't want to resort to ripping it out again... It would be nice to be diagnostic before I rip it out.......... the pain the pain the pain.... It hurts when I think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickytrus Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 Well - white smoke certainly could be coolant. Is it losing coolant? Can you run it long enough to see if the coolant level goes down? A coolant leak big enough to cause a billowing cloud of white smoke shouldn't be terribly hard to locate...... intake manifold gaskets are a good thing to check, but if you don't find it there, check the oil to see if any coolant is mixing with it... that would indicate a HG problem. GD Yeah, it sure as hey is alot of smoke... and that was what I was thinkin... check the coolant level..... it is not noticable that it is going down... but I will say this..... when I turned the car off... from inside the vehicle I noticed the coolant to rise up allmost out of the radiator... I had the cap off during this... run.... then I went out... and a bunch of bubbles rose up to the top at the fill...(blurp,blurp)...... but... I haven't even got this pup up to operating temps..... and it sat on the bench (on sabatical) so maybe that is why she is blurping........ but should it rise like that when the vehicle is turned off????????? How about the bad gas theory... maybe I should buy a piece of hose and run the car out of a pail of freshly laundered gasoline.............. then I can exhaust this bad gas theory........ what do you think????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I replaced a motor once after the headgasket went bad. The exhaust was full of coolant and smoked for quite a while. I'd run it for 5 minutes and shut it down then come back in an hour or so and do it again. Finally I noticed the smoke was starting to diminish and let it run for about 30 minutes and the smoke stopped and the motor ran for about 6 years so far without incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subi81 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I vote for getting it up to temp, when I did the HG on my ea-81, coolent shot accrossed half of my garage getting all the bubbles out of it, so just keep your eye on it and let it get up to temp, as long as you don't get oil in your water and water in your oil, you should be ok. If you think it is bad gas the pail o gas would definatly eliminate that problem. Maybe replace the filter. Not sure if fuel injected loyales have the carby preheat water thingy, but that would be another thing to check for coolent getting into the engine. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickytrus Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 Yeah,,,,,,,, it is strange........... I just went out to the car..... you should see this thing.... up on jack stands in the back..no rear tires on it... masked off due to all the painting.. fairly cleaned up engine compartment....... I used 409 on it for cleaner after using the hard core degreaser armor all.......... and billowing smoke...... makes ya' jerk a tear from yo' eye ball!@ So besides all this sentiment.... sorrow and mayhem... here is some more clues to toss about..... The engine sat for about an hour......... so it was definetly cooled off................. I started it up.......... it ran ok for about a minute or two............ then it started acting up again......................................... Hmmm.... Does this sound like maybe a crack in something... (heats up then expands and then starts to smoke.........) What do you think????? I ma gonna let it sit again and cool.... and feed my face for a little while.......................... Micky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickytrus Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 yeah, that preheat carby thingie... you mention....... is that the hose to the back of the throttle body?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickytrus Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 Yeah, the Loyale has that preheat line in the back of the throttle body.... and I wanted just to say that this puppy when it is billowing all this smoke will not idle........... could it be perhaps an intake/antifreeze leak perhaps... tommorrow I will get some more gas and run it out of a pail just for laughs.... I myself am leaning towards the mr freeze..... and a crack.........that is expanding when heat thus causing a leak,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, What is the consensus out there... what do you think????? thanks Micky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMeatWagon Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Ah could be. My brothers girlfriends camry had a split hose and it was spewing anitfreeze all over under her hood and it was billowing smoke. It sounds exactly like the kind of smoke your talking about too. I dont know much so thats just my 2 cents. Cheers and goodluck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickytrus Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 Well I got it up to operating temperature(the poor thing) If was strange.... sometimes is spewed more smoke than other times... it wasn't always steady......... well it is getting late here out east..... but.... here is what I think is the clincher......... I think it is an antifreeze leak........... this is why....... I was closing up the shop...(really just a small garage that fits a subie pretty well) but nothing any larger............. and I noticed a puddle from the exhaust............. and I put it in my hands... finger tipsss anddd it was slippery.... just like good ol' anti freeze............. Now the antifreeze level hasn't gone down... well it is really hard to notice......... it is not noticable...... How and what kind of leaks should I check for.......... Should I drain the fluids into clean containers??????? MY BRAND NEW OIL, AND ANTI FREEZE.................... check for cross contamination.................................... What should or how should I go about detecting this...... Again... just to say this pup isn't even idling...... it will idle for about a minute or so than that is it..... Micky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 It's not sounding good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I would take Qmans advice. Let it run for a while, you may just have some old coolant in the exhaust still. Did you look at the heads when you had them off? Particularly between the valves for cracks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Yeah - the back pressure from a clogged exhaust could account for the tendancy to idle for a short while, and then choke out. I had a very similar situation to Qman - I replaced the y-pipe on my Brat from a vehicle that had a blown HG, and had shot milkshake all over everything - including down the exhaust. It smoked for a good 30 minutes or more - filled up the whole neighborhood, and people were comming outside to see what was on fire..... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 And dont forget you coated all the internals with oil also. It might still be burning that off too. Let it run for a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 More thoughts/ideas on the problem, 1st, what does the smoke smell like? Coolant has a sweet smell to it, oil is kinda pungant, ATF will make your eyes water-up/burn a little. All look sorta whitish coming out of the tailpipe, but oil has a blue tint to it. 2nd, do a compression check when cold, then one after it warms up. May show which side is the culprit if it is a bad head or head gasket. 3rd, you said you squirted oil into the cylinders. That could be your problem with the smoke. Will take a bit to burn it off, 'specially if you put lots in there, as stated earlier. 4th, on the no want to idle syndrome. Does it start to slowly die down, or does it start missing and sputter to a stop? If it slowly dies down, could be plugged exhaust as stated earlier. Sputtering to a stop could be that it's starving for gas. You put new filter on it? Not real up on FI systems, but learning here. 5th, What was the reason to do the engine in the first place? If it was a junky motor, it could have filled the exhaust up with oil, water, what ever, and this could be part of the problem. 6th, check the torque on the intake to head bolts. Possible small leak coolant could be from there, and increasing as engine warms up. Like I said, just some thoughts/ideas/re-hashes, in no particular order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill90Loyale Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Yeah, the Loyale has that preheat line in the back of the throttle body.... and I wanted just to say that this puppy when it is billowing all this smoke will not idle........... could it be perhaps an intake/antifreeze leak perhaps... tommorrow I will get some more gas and run it out of a pail just for laughs.... I myself am leaning towards the mr freeze..... and a crack.........that is expanding when heat thus causing a leak,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, What is the consensus out there... what do you think????? thanks Micky Micky- A bad Throttle Body Gasket can cause these symptoms. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickytrus Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 Well I have many things to persue this evening.... It is definetly anti-freeze...... coolant somehow getting into the combustion chamber. This is clear by the puddle of greasy "clear spooge"(missing the green dye #3 - also found in many of our foods) that has condensed on the floor below the tailpipe...... I am gonna start with the least painful first.......... I am thinking the throttle body is agood place to start...... and I must make sure that I had put all my hoses on correctly when I did the motor install for the emissions stuff(not to have some how crossed one of those lines with the coolant line/lines).......... I put some late nights in on this car....... so it could have happened......... sometimes long hours put in on something just leads to long hours correcting things....... GOod ol' Ying and Yang................... So I will use your input as I guide to solve the mayhem........ I will let you all know what the end results are as soon as I know............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickytrus Posted July 3, 2004 Author Share Posted July 3, 2004 Well, the subie is running..... ran it the other night.... I still have some things to explore which can only be done by more running.... So as to the issues uncovered at hand so far....... as said early, the vehicle was not idling.... and it was hoofing out anti freeze in the exhaust.... the anti-freeze left a clear greezy puddle on the ground at the tail pipe............ So anyway, As I said I should check some of the emission hoses and sorts before I go diving into taking this motor apart....... too painful.... 172 bucks in OEM gaskets...... Only if I must utterly do so......... It appears as though I had mistakenly crossed some hoses..... The egr was not running into its solenoid... and I didn't have the air suction solenoid going to the manifold......... and the egr mounting bolts we not tightened..... (which I found out after I switched the hoses around)...... well like I said it is running..... and it seemed to be running really fine..... and quiet as hell..... (new timing belt hardware). but, I must still be skeptical......... I am concerned still about all that antifreeze... hoofing when I had all that stuff above mixed up......... I don't have a clear explanation for it........ I am gonna have to just watch it... and I may have an oil leak on the passengers side of the motor.... again ... I will have to watch it..... It could just be power steering fluid that is sitting some where.(very little leak indicated by the cardboard I put under it after I ran it.)... when the motor was out it had leaked out of the reservoir......... I have to add some........... So If someone out there may think they might have an idea why the above problems may have caused or enhanced the antifreeze leak I would surely like to know.............. Micky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 I dont think its a problem. I think its just left over coolant from the previous problems and that it was contained in the exhaust system. Once you run it for a while it will eventually blow it out and dry it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 what tom said, compression and leak-down tests, try to rule out the head gaskets first let it run to OT, check coolant, make sure the air is out. then you can check to see if u have bubbles, if the coolant wants to boil over could be HG, but i would doubt a new installation. also check for coolant or steam in oil,(milkshake on dipstick, oil fill cap, pcv hose fittings on cam cover) or oil in coolant what is more likely is a cracked exhaust port in the head, leaking water there. that will get you smoke with no side effect but coolant loss. block seal should fix that(fixed a bad HG for me), napa brand works FOLLOW DIRECTIONS PRECISELY you can try that, and if that dont fix it, then we can rule out the HG and cracked head(confirm with compression test) drive it around, watch the temp, process of elimintation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickytrus Posted July 4, 2004 Author Share Posted July 4, 2004 Thanks! for the info/insight/expertise....... I look foward to driving it around.......... I am in the process of spraying the hood right now...... need to get the fenders on and undercoat it....... so close yet so far............... but. it sounds reassurring that I shoudl be in the clear...... I will watch for those things mentioned.............. Micky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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