milty60 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 My son just purchased a 09 Subaru Forester. I am teaching him to drive standard shift - I drove standard 30 yrs ago - my father taught me if I remember correctly he said when slowing down down shift and use the brakes. My son has hit the web and he's seeing - throw it in neutral and use the brakes - don't wear out your tranny or clutch. The concern I have is - one is going 60+- mph or better exiting a highway - and suddenly needs to make an evasive move and hits the gas to power out of the way of some danger but now has to depress the clutch - shift to the best gear for the speed take a hand off the steering wheel to do this - etc. I don't like the idea of sitting in neutral on a highway or back road. What do you guys think? On modern engine/transmission are you going to wear out the clutch and tranny by downshifting when slowing down? Are you ok with riding in neutral. I'm open to all opinions. Thanks, Milty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan909 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 You learned right, just as did I. Having "the web" teach you that riding around in neutral is somehow better is just as idiotic as it sounds - doing so is an enormous sacrifice of control in addition to being a lot harder on the brakes. Is the clutch going to wear? Yes - exactly as it's intended to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Learning to drive a manual is really a waste of time for most kids now. Automatic transmissions can do everything better and with less maintenance. Unless the kid wants a future in the automotive industry or just wants to learn it for nostalgia purposes. As to the question. Always use the brakes in preference to the clutch to slow the vehicle. Don't ever leave the transmission in neutral while moving. Push the clutch in but keep it in an appropriate gear. The transmission, synchros, etc will be fine. Use the clutch to slow the vehicle only if needed when on steep hills, or if the brakes are insufficient. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Milty, we call that manoeuvre “angel gear” over here. If you skip into neutral at speed and use the brakes you’re in the hands of the angels. Some might say that it’s the same for an auto but really it’s not, get back on the good stuff and the auto does the rest for you. Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 When I learnt to drive, almost 60 years ago, I was taught to slow down using the gears. The theory was that you were always in control, and always in the correct gear to accelerate if need be. After many years of driving manuals, I've changed my habits. I now use the brakes for slowing down, and then shift down when the vehicle-speed has already slowed. It still keeps me in a suitable gear, but it saves clutch-wear. Brakes are easy and cheap to replace. Clutches are time-consuming and expensive to replace. And yes, you may need to know how to drive a manual, if you travel the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan909 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Well, it's a mischaracterization to say that you're "using the clutch to slow down". That's like saying that you're "using the clutch to speed up" when you're accelerating. The clutch doesn't slow you - you're using it to shift to a lower gear, then letting the motor slow you down. The point (of course) is to do it right by matching the revs to minimize wear, which keeps you in closer touch with the state of the machine. GD, I've gotta disagree wrt to learning a manual being "a waste of time for most kids now". It's a skill, and learning a new skill should never be considered a waste (at least, that's my argument to the friend who's telling me that learning how to rebuild an engine is a useless exercise when I can just go buy a used one, especially since I have no intention of doing it professionally). I have two 16-year-old girls - they just got their licenses, and it's important to us that they're able to handle with equal comfort and competence all of our vehicles - standard or automatic - because they cannot predict which car or truck they may have to drive in a given set of circumstances. Plus, they just bought a dirt bike, and they'll be that much further ahead with it thanks to having learned to handle the 5MT in the Legacys. Edited January 21, 2019 by jonathan909 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 It depends on the kind of life you live and where. But for most of America, unless you plan on being a (vintage) automotive enthusiast, clutches will soon be a thing of the past. So will internal combustion propulsion. The constant torque electric motor is the way of the future and in a handful of decades the manual transmission, combustion engine powered, manually operated motor vehicle will be as outdated as the horse and carriage. Sure it's fun - but that's an enthusiast statement. The vast majority of people will not need this any more than they need to know how to saddle a horse, or hitch one to the wagon. It's an excellent skill to have right now if you plan on entering the current labor force in a capacity that requires it. Lot boy at a dealership, any position in a maintenance role, tire stores, and a host of other career paths. But for your average person - it's probably not going to spark their interest or be more than a very slight inconvenience (if even that) should they never learn. And automatics are 100% better. In all conditions. Have been for decades. The Subaru automatic is far and away superior in traction, safety, reliability, and maintenance. Manuals are relegated to a very minor role as a (percieved) performance and enthusiast transmission, or for people that need to have a whole bunch of things to do with their hands for whatever reason unknown to all including them. All that said - I do take gleeful enjoyment in driving some of my manual vehicles. Mostly because it's now fun to be one of the few that knows how to use them. But I don't kid myself into thinking they are anything more than what they are - out dated relics. GD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 using the internet to learn how to drive a manual is like using the internet to self diagnose an illness.. DON'T DO IT! and while they may be a "relic" of a bygone era, there are still plenty of them around, so learning how to drive one is not a complete waste of time - yet... One should NEVER ride around with the tranny in neutral... disengage the clutch by using the pedal (depressed FULLY, not partially), fine, but never just pop it into neutral and leave it there as you are slowing down. my first Subaru had a 5 speed - it needed a clutch when I got it (was an 89 GL that I got in 2000)... had one installed and drove the snot out of that car for 8 years with no clutch problems - and I was not "gentle" with it, either.. it still had plenty of life left when the car was taken off the road due to structural rust issues. riding the pedal (partially depressed) is where the greater majority of wear is going to come from.. using it correctly, even when downshifting to slow down, will not result in excessive wear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milty60 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 Thanks for all of the insight. Milty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 yeah, the invention of the lock-up TC was probably the last blow to the MT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Use brakes but also use the gears. No wear to clutch except the fork and TO bearing. Not unless you are slipping it on the downshift somehow. If you really want to teach him right, teach him how to heel and toe.......Braking lightly with toe of right foot, while using heel of right foot to apply small amount of throttle, raising RPMs as clutch is depressed, to match speed of next gear. Slide shifter into the next lower gear, let out clutch........all the while lightly braking but using the engine to do some of the work too. repaet down through second gear.........when slowed to near a stop, press clutch in and brake roll until you come to a stop........downshifting into 1st while moving is not recommended unless it's an emergency like snow or downhill muddy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Yea whatever the situation calls for, and suits your driving style. Engine braking on long downhills, pop into n in the city, and hitting that perfect heel and toe downshift on the highway off ramp, then using that odd skill on a road course. I like to step on the clutch and select lower gears as necessary approaching a stop and coast if nothing weird happens, but i have the option for engine braking if someone slams on the brakes. That has helped me stop in time to avoid an accident in the snow. It's kinda funny how often this question comes up on this forum, i have been on my second gen camaro forum for like 15 years and never seen this question once, and i read all the off topic threads and all. Guess it's because that forum is 1970-81 camaros. Edited January 23, 2019 by sparkyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Hypermilers are laughing I rarely downshift to avoid drivetrain loading. Brakes are simple and cheap. Professionals downshift so there’s a precedent. if safety were an academic high priority I wouldn’t be driving an XT6 or probably even a Subaru There are also zero bars, no cable, and no internet where I live - most USMBer’s couldn’t survive lol, an emergency is only a deer or tree. In some urban settings i might do differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) On 1/21/2019 at 1:31 AM, GeneralDisorder said: unless you plan on being a (vintage) automotive enthusiast, clutches will soon be a thing of the past. So will internal combustion propulsion. The constant torque electric motor is the way of the future and in a handful of decades the manual transmission, combustion engine powered, manually operated motor vehicle will be as outdated as the horse and carriage. Sure it's fun - but that's an enthusiast statement. The vast majority of people will not need this any more than they need to know how to saddle a horse, or hitch one to the wagon. And automatics are 100% better. In all conditions. Have been for decades. The Subaru automatic is far and away superior in traction, safety, reliability, and maintenance. Manuals are relegated to a very minor role as a (percieved) performance and enthusiast transmission, or for people that need to have a whole bunch of things to do with their hands for whatever reason unknown to all including them. All that said - I do take gleeful enjoyment in driving some of my manual vehicles. Mostly because it's now fun to be one of the few that knows how to use them. But I don't kid myself into thinking they are anything more than what they are - out dated relics. GD Oh boy! I finally get to debate @GeneralDisorder! I have read a lot of your clever retorts over the years on this forum but have never really disagreed with you until now, I would like to argue your points on the internal combustion engine being a thing of the past one day. Comparing the IC engine to the horse and buggy, and the electric motor to the gas engine of the horse pulled carriage days is easy for anyone to understand, but it's not exactly an apt one. a) The horse was the best mode of transport for who knows how many thousands of years before the IC engine, but the infrastructure in place to support such a mode of transport was minimal in comparison to everything put in place to support cars and trucks. All you need is some hitches and water and a store for tack or wagon parts haha. Additionally, by the time a far superior alternative to the horse came around, there certainly weren't two horses for every person like there are currently for cars and people, so it was much easier to drop the horse to a novelty since cars could use the same roads mostly, but it took decades until everything was right enough for a regular guy to buy and maintain a car. It seems that electric cars don't face the same challenges as the IC cars did to become established, but they need to put in a LOT more charging stations, but i think it will take hundreds of years before the IC engines are naturally wiped out by a "superior" mode of transport. If ever! Yes the electric cars of today have such impressive acceleration that you have to get a top of the line muscle car or super car to beat one in a drag race, but...so? I don't see any electric cars competing in the 24 hours of Le mons. They would be a joke in that race and simply can't compete at that level of performance. I know, one set a record at pikes peak hill climb, but until you can recharge or change the batteries reasonably fast enough to compete then they simply aren't on the cutting edge of performance. Or engineering as far as I'm concerned. 1000 horsepower in a street car on pump gas is already available and is almost yawn inducing for that deep pocket crowd. b) The horse suffered the fate (or fortune) of being unable to be improved past a certain point that nature allows. I don't need to tell someone with your automotive knowledge that the IC has loads of innovations yet to be made. Tiny direct injection turbo engines seem to be the next trend, and alfa romeo is toying with the pneumatic/electric camless valvetrain. Having such a large number of possibilities of overlap and duration means you cam theoretically have your engine that idles like a honda you can rev to the moon? An impossible concept until recently. That will allow max power and efficiency. The electric car seems to keep running into technological barriers that have to be overcome, but they have improved greatly over the ev1 first gen prius and other alternatives. c) The electric car seems to enjoy an almost celebrity like approval from people of great influence, (govt.) while gasoline powered things have a slowly growing stigma because they are "worse" for the environment. Did the man pay anyone for buying a gas car instead of a horse? And i don't see any books or public tours of politicians calling electric cars "unsafe at any speed" despite that some early teslas suddenly burst into flames like Maureen McCormicks. But it's rare, like getting rear ended in your pinto! Elon musk himself (or some brass at tesla) understands that electric cars' impact the environment is often understated. Lithium mines and huge power plants for an even bigger electrical grid aren't exactly good either, and as a joke and maybe a nod to insiders, if you have one of earlier built model 3s, you can punch in a code like a video game and get a hidden drawing of a unicorn with the caption "electric cars are good for the environment because electricity comes from unicorn farts" but they used the image without permission so they had to stop. Hot Rod magazine called 1969 the year of the electric car, in response to a motor trend article about electric cars back then. I see more than a few first gen priuses for sale for $500 because the batteries are dead and cost around $10,000 for a new one, and that's a hybrid battery, so are you really saving any money in the long run to maintain a first gen prius? Obviously not, and questions like that can only be answered with time and millions of miles from thousands of units. I find it funny that the geo metro got better gas mileage than the early prius. The metro xfe got 60mpg! As far as manuals go, i see them being phased out already. Supposedly the mid engine corvette will not have a manny trans available at all. So high end CHEVY guys will feel the pain that that porsche guys have felt? Why? Honda on the other hand offers the six speed on the accord sedan, a dead playform thanks to crossover. But you know some goof with money will have one in a garage for a clutch pedal and some high amounts of boost that night so a tesla with...?? won't beat him...how do you improve the performance of an electric car besides, suspension, less weight, or cranking up the motor, battery size or voltage until the risk for a fire is just a nagging concern? I don't see any tesla or prius based performance magazines! It will be interesting to see, they don't build them like they used to will always be true. And exxon already knows how to make algae into gasoline if they already have tv commercials about that, then it's in a safe until the day pumping crude oil isn't profitable so they have to use it all for roads, and plastics! Edited January 25, 2019 by sparkyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan909 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) Whew - that was a blowout rant. I'm not the slightest bit interested in getting into a knock-down-drag-out on the (WAY OT) subjects of peak oil, the growing environmental depredations associated with its extraction, and global warming here, but they're all real. And they're the pressures that are going to cause the effective extinction of the ICE - probably in my lifetime, but most certainly in that of my kids. Are electrics perfect? Far from it - in fact, around here, at present, they're the worst example of "long tailpipe" pollution, as most of Alberta's electricity still comes from coal (yes, all of those plants are being forced by legislation to convert to natural gas by 2030, but that's a marginal improvement, not a quantum one). So while Teslas are cool, they aren't as meritorious as owners here would have you believe. They may tell you that they pay a premium for solar- or wind-generated power, but that's accounting flummery. Hydrocarbon fuels remain the gold standard in terms of energy density, but there isn't a car company or related industry that doesn't see the writing on the wall, and the investment and effort in improving battery chemistry (and every other aspect of the electric drivetrain) is massive, and will continue to improve to the points at which it's competitive with, then superior to, burning fossil fuels. And that's the viewpoint from the very practical engineering perspective, not the starry-eyed environmentalist one. That doesn't mean we don't have a lot to atone for. The energy of slaves (as fossil fuels haven been described - PM me for references) has resulted in our building an unsustainable society in many respects. Departing it may force us to make very difficult and unpleasant compromises, but compromises that will in the long run rationalize and improve our society. Edited January 25, 2019 by jonathan909 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) @jonathan909 right, thanks to anyone who read the book i wrote up there, but this is always such a fascinating discussion. I wouldn't call it ranting, just an invite for a rebuttal. My dad has the same viewpoint of the IC engine for a long time but far more extreme than GD. He says the govt. will just come and take peoples cars and ban gasoline so enjoy it now! Haha My rebuttal is "well if they want to just come and take Amercans chevelles and pick up trucks, they really should take everyone's guns away first." Then crickets chirping lol! We always throw out extreme arguments for fun, but often wind up making a good point. Yeah, transportation will always be quite a dillema and can certainly be debated for hours and pages forever until a couple of less refined people bring up politics and strart flinging poo and get politics and a some people banned from usmb. There never will be a perfect solution to the problem, and the best approach will obviously be a combination of technology. Someone out there has designed some crazy engine that can run on sea water, but is afraid the CIA will kill him. Haha! The trendiness is kind of a problem too, electric cars and trolleys and what not have been around just as long as the IC but have always been an "inferior" technology , at least from a practical standpoint. I think the first electric car came out in 1903 or something when the IC engine was just a baby too, but as time went on the big boys were putting those all aluminum big block chevys while the electric motor has evolved to fancy golf cart. It's fun to speculate on the future about such huge issues. But I'll never argue in favor of the IC engine (at least unprovoked haha) again if one can either win the 24 hours of Le Mons, or best of show at the SEMA show. Automotive history is so fun and fascinating, at this point unfortunately comparing electric and gas is still comparing apples to oranges, or apples to crab apples at least. And why must electric cars either be a little hippie machine like a prius or some outrageous contraption from futurama that costs as much as several houses? They can't just slap some electric motors into an existing body? Two years ago i was at cars and coffee in December toys for tots has a toy drive and Brendan Frasier (the actor) was showing his Fisker Karma, a $500,000 supercar. This thing has like 2000 horsepower on tap from 4 electric motors (one on each wheel) but looks like a stretched out lotus. He's a super nice guy, but his attempt to burn out was truly pathetic, i was watching people leave, but i would have given almost anything to be behind him in my Subaru and do a much longer and smoker exit. In case anyone is wondering the dude donated a trailer full of game boys and games for the kids. Edited January 25, 2019 by sparkyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan909 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Well, nobody's threatening to come and pry your steering wheel out of your cold, dead hands - they don't have to. It's much more simple than that: Gas will simply be priced out of reach, then ultimately banned. You can keep as many big shiny metal planters as you want. This isn't like guns, where (Americans) have a (debatable) constitutional right to them. Nor is there a gas-guzzling-car equivalent of the NRA going to the wall to fight against end-run fuel restrictions, the automotive equivalent of the Brady bill. And the big petroleum companies are already showing signs of starting to divest of the worst of their hydrocarbon holdings i.e. the Alberta tar sands. They know what's coming down the pike, and if getting out of what is still their core business is what they have to do to preserve shareholder value, then get they will. As far as electric supercars go, I hope you caught the episode of The Grand Tour in which Richard Hammond wrecked the megabuck Croatian Rimac. He rolled it, then it burned for four days. Every time a battery cell blew, it set the next one alight, and they couldn't put it out. Just amazing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Interesting convo fellas! One other thing about these electric vehicles - battery replacement cost was mentioned. There’s another issue with the batteries - we don’t have any way of recycling them, or safely disposing of them. So no emissions while driving (yay!?) but what cost at end of life of the batteries?? And if two sets are required for the life of the vehicle? There are plenty of other fuel sources available that are renewable - cost will be an issue but if it comes down to it this will be used if we’re up against a wall so to speak. Also there was an Aussie fella that developed high effiencey steam engine or something to that effect. I believe it essentially ran on water - I don’t know how but I do know this isn’t really a good thing in Australia with our lack of water! Anyway, Edward Pritchard (spelling?) is the guy that did it. He made two running vehicles from Fords. The first only had “two gears” - forwards and reverse! The second was more conventional with a manual gearbox. One was stolen and never seen again. The other I don’t know what happened. Everyone he demonstrated this technology to shunned it and it sent him bankrupt. I’d love to see how this thing works as it intrigues me. It also shamed me how people can treat others when they’ve got some top ideas! Cheers Bennie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) Very cool! I'm gonna look into all that! You can run a carby engine on the fumes produced from burning wood too, pretty dope! @jonathan909 very good point on the constitutional rights of guns, but oil companies probably have a bigger and more influential group of lobbyists than even the NRA. At least in my circle we care way more about cars than guns. Also, oil companies have huge public relations concerns, and leaving the tar sands alone is a good look for them. That whole fracking issue is another can of worms. As well as not in Antarctica (!?) Or the gulf of Mexico. I think personally that oil companies have a lot of technology for crude oil extraction, and synthetic gasoline, but profits are far too good to use them yet, and if politicians find out about has without having to drill, it would be much easier to ban drilling. Top ideas indeed huh Benny? Someone invents a car that runs on water in the states and the CIA will put an end to such tomfoolery. LOL Ok here is my idea, you know those charge pads for your phone? So you don't have to plug in the usb? Ok put the battery piece inside the tire, and the pad would be a toll road that i built, far from charging stations on purpose, but driving and charging at the same time? You heard it here first boys! Edited January 26, 2019 by sparkyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan909 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, sparkyboy said: You can run a carby engine on the fumes produced from burning wood too, pretty dope! I'm sure I read something about that, or maybe one of my more credulous friends drew my attention to it... wasn't it more like a fermenter or coal gas generator that you fed wood into? Struck me at the time that you could do it that way, but you wouldn't be going very far very fast. Quote @jonathan909 very good point on the constitutional rights of guns, but oil companies probably have a bigger and more influential group of lobbyists than even the NRA. At least in my circle we care way more about cars than guns. Most certainly, but as I said, the oil companies are big, practical, profit-driven entities that would ditch oil and sell hamburgers if they saw more profit for their shareholders in it. Seriously, as the market for fossil hydrocarbon fuels slowly dies, they're rebranding themselves as "energy" companies and diversifying into wind and solar and hydrogen and anything else that'll keep the dividend cheques flowing. So they really couldn't care less about "oil" as a thing. In contrast, the gun lobby isn't just doctrinaire, it's obsessive and fanatical in a way that's not well understood anywhere else in the world. They aren't motivated by profit, logic, or common sense - just look at how they work to the detriment of their own constituency by absolutely refusing the CPSC jurisdiction over firearms (the only product sector so excluded). We could get into a discussion about the historical origins of this weird behaviour, but I think we're sufficiently OT already to try everyone's patience quite enough. So any parallels between the two industries fall apart really fast. Quote Top ideas indeed huh Benny? Someone invents a car that runs on water in the states and the CIA will put an end to such tomfoolery. LOL Ah, I never bought into that five-hundred-mile-per-gallon-car-runs-on-water-and-dark-energy-but-big-oil-suppressed-it bu11$h!t. Strictly conspiracy-theorist nonsense, no different than any other perpetual-motion fantasy. The laws of thermodynamics still apply: You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game. If there'd been any substance to any of that crap, James Randi's million-dollar prize would have been claimed. But it wasn't, and it was retired with him after 30 years. Quote Ok here is my idea, you know those charge pads for your phone? So you don't have to plug in the usb? Ok put the battery piece inside the tire, and the pad would be a toll road that i built, far from charging stations on purpose, but driving and charging at the same time? You heard it here first boys! Fun idea (and I hate to be a buzzkill), but I think about half an hour of back-of-the-envelope calculation would probably show why it wouldn't fly... Edited January 27, 2019 by jonathan909 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshaJ847 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) On 1/21/2019 at 2:31 AM, GeneralDisorder said: And automatics are 100% better. In all conditions. Not in the condition of a bad starter and you want a push start. Edited January 27, 2019 by MarshaJ847 changed 'Not is' to 'Not in' 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, jonathan909 said: We could get into a discussion about the historical origins of this weird behaviour, but I think we're sufficiently OT already to try everyone's patience quite enough. Haha! Now into driverless cars...just kidding. Yup it's funny how these things happen. That was a lot of fun! I read a very good issue of car and driver with a black cover (no car) with the caption "is driving dead" that basically came to a similar conclusion about the future of automobiles, including the manual transmission slowly dying. I mean no manny trans in the stinking CORVETTE!?! The camaro still gets one what the hell? Honda has a six speed available on the 2019 accord and i think they are the only ones putting one in a sedan, also a dying design thanks to crossovers. Thanks for humoring me and chiming in though Edited January 27, 2019 by sparkyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan909 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Yeah, that was fun. Thanks to everyone for bearing with us. Next time we can start a fresh thread for this kind of wide-ranging blather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) Oh that was a lightweight hijacking! This thread is only one page still and no threats of physical injury or insults haha! As far as the manual transmissions go, luckily there are lots to go around still, but trust me I am going to start hoarding dual ranges and maybe single range of I like it in my xt after the ej22 swap, which i think i will Few people, even lifelong manual drivers, and performance car drivers at that know the pleasures of nailing a perfect heel and toe mashing her hard in the mountains or a highway off ramp, or even coming in hot at an intersection. My younger bro is a perfect example, he had no idea but when you do it proper and coming out of the apex is so smooth you can't feel any clutch action, so satisfying. He drives fast beemers too! It's a lot of fun to teach someone because they are always like "wait...wha?" Lol Unfortunately the factory pedal placement in my 77 camaro makes it almost impossible to heel and toe because the gas pedal is too low so I have to come off the clutch a bit later. Luckily that engine just loafs along (peak torque at 1600 rpm) so I can just let the revs come up a bit by slipping the clutch or just coasting for a second, but certainly neither are ideal. So don't take it for granted Subaru people! Edited January 27, 2019 by sparkyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 18 minutes ago, sparkyboy said: Few people, even lifelong manual drivers, and performance car drivers at that know the pleasures of nailing a perfect heel and toe mashing her hard in the mountains or a highway off ramp, or even coming in hot at an intersection. My younger bro is a perfect example, he had no idea but when you do it proper and coming out of the apex is so smooth you can't feel any clutch action, so satisfying. He drives fast beemers too! Yeah if you do it just right you don't even need the clutch to downshift......just gotta perfect match the rpms and catch it at the glide point, slides right in. 20 minutes ago, sparkyboy said: As far as the manual transmissions go, luckily there are lots to go around still, but trust me I am going to start hoarding dual ranges and maybe single range of I like it in my xt after the ej22 swap, which i think i will You can stuff the guts of a Single range box into a 90's EJ trans front case and skip the adapter. Then you don't need the redrilled flywheel. You can use EJ flywheels and clutches including WRX if you get the correct flywheel I Swapped early Fulltime w/difflock guts into an EJ box for use in my 2.2 swapped 89 XT. 4wd button on the shifter and it's solenoids for control of the Difflock. Allows me to use original XT shifter and driveline, unmodified too. Alternately, it's not hard to swap in a full AWD EJ box from Legacy or whatever else......but then you need to fab shifters, drivelines, and get some 25 spline turbo axles if it doesn't already have them (some XT did) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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