MT downshift or pop into neutral and brake

[sparkyboy]

@FerGloyale

That's cool man, i didn't know about that! I have seen the full legacy swap, that would be sweet for autocross. I plan on slamming mine within an inch of the bump stops for autocrossing 

Hey a question about xts, didn't all the turbo models in 1985 have a posi? The turbo xt is the same as gl10? I ask because I turned the rear wheels and they turned opposite directions, it wouldn't matter if the 4wd was engaged right?

I definitely need to get a ej case, is there a write up you know of off the top of your head?

[1 Lucky Texan]

15 hours ago, sparkyboy said:

@FerGloyale

That's cool man, i didn't know about that! I have seen the full legacy swap, that would be sweet for autocross. I plan on slamming mine within an inch of the bump stops for autocrossing 

Hey a question about xts, didn't all the turbo models in 1985 have a posi? The turbo xt is the same as gl10? I ask because I turned the rear wheels and they turned opposite directions, it wouldn't matter if the 4wd was engaged right?

I definitely need to get a ej case, is there a write up you know of off the top of your head?

that test only works in neutral I 'think' - that's how it works on our Outback,  so, was the driveshaft also turning?

you might dig around at www.cars101.com to determine if that year-model had rear LSD.

Edited January 28, 2019 by 1 Lucky Texan

[el_freddo]

The LSD was an option on the vortex. The RX turbo got it factory. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[idosubaru]

On 1/27/2019 at 5:20 PM, sparkyboy said:

 

 didn't all the turbo models in 1985 have a posi? The turbo xt is the same as gl10? 

no.  only the RX had LSD standard.  XT's very rarely have it, i'd just assume it's an open diff.  i've owned 20 or so XT's. seen many more, and have never seen one with an LSD unless it was installed by me or someone else (forum member).

[sparkyboy]

14 hours ago, idosubaru said:

no.  only the RX had LSD standard.  XT's very rarely have it, i'd just assume it's an open diff.  i've owned 20 or so XT's. seen many more, and have never seen one with an LSD unless it was installed by me or someone else (forum member).

Cool man, thanks for the info boys! And no worries about the posi, she is still one of the best neutral handling cars I have had, my 88 325 ix is awd and handles about the same. If anything the beemer has a tad more understeer.

I prefer the slightly loose handling of the second gen camaro or the rwd e30s

And  @idosubaru "20 or so xts?" 

Xt ownership seems like such a rare pleasure in the Subaru world and you have experienced this 20 times.

I won't mince words, I'm jealous.

I find it odd that Subaru put all the effort to make the most aerodynamic production car of the time, and go completely bonkers with the interior and not include the posi on the goofiest sube of the 80s?

I can't wait to put the ej22 I'm her and slamming the old girl till she scrapes!

Edited January 30, 2019 by sparkyboy

[wirelessenabled]

On 1/21/2019 at 12:18 PM, FerGloyale said:

Use brakes but also use the gears.  No wear to clutch except the fork and TO bearing.  Not unless you are slipping it on the downshift somehow.

If you really want to teach him right, teach him how to heel and toe.......Braking lightly with toe of right foot, while using heel of right foot to apply small amount of throttle, raising RPMs as clutch is depressed, to match speed of next gear.  Slide shifter into the next lower gear, let out clutch........all the while lightly braking but using the engine to do some of the work too.  repaet down through second gear.........when slowed to near a stop, press clutch in and brake roll until you come to a stop........downshifting into 1st while moving is not recommended unless it's an emergency like snow or downhill muddy.

I have to laugh at this.  Driving my 1961 Triumph Spitfire, a 1953 Ford 1 ton flatbed,  and other early vehicles,  I used to heel and toe for control.  The brakes were so horrible that one had to use the engine braking.  My 2014 Outback brakes are great.  I shift in to neutral and use the brakes to slow down.  As others have said, brake pads are way cheaper to replace than clutch discs.  Of course who knows, why believe me?  I only have certainly well over 1,000,000 miles driving a stick without an accident yet.

Edited April 11, 2019 by wirelessenabled

[heartless]

9 hours ago, wirelessenabled said:

I have to laugh at this.  Driving my 1961 Triumph Spitfire, a 1953 Ford 1 ton flatbed,  and other early vehicles,  I used to heel and toe for control.  The brakes were so horrible that one had to use the engine braking.  My 2014 Outback brakes are great.  I shift in to neutral and use the brakes to slow down.  As others have said, brake pads are way cheaper to replace than clutch discs.  Of course who knows, why believe me?  I only have certainly well over 1,000,000 miles driving a stick without an accident yet.

That is quite the claim.

i used to drive for a living (semi) so probably have many more miles under my belt than the average person.

granted, semis and cars are a little different, but not by that much - everything is basically just scaled up. Never took the semi out of gear and just coasted/used just the brakes to stop - always had it in the appropriate gear for the speed I was at - it is more about maintaining control, and being able to accelerate if need be, to get out of a potential bad situation.

 

[biggman100]

On 1/21/2019 at 3:31 AM, GeneralDisorder said:

It depends on the kind of life you live and where. But for most of America, unless you plan on being a (vintage) automotive enthusiast, clutches will soon be a thing of the past. So will internal combustion propulsion. The constant torque electric motor is the way of the future and in a handful of decades the manual transmission, combustion engine powered, manually operated motor vehicle will be as outdated as the horse and carriage. Sure it's fun - but that's an enthusiast statement. The vast majority of people will not need this any more than they need to know how to saddle a horse, or hitch one to the wagon. 

It's an excellent skill to have right now if you plan on entering the current labor force in a capacity that requires it. Lot boy at a dealership, any position in a maintenance role, tire stores, and a host of other career paths. But for your average person - it's probably not going to spark their interest or be more than a very slight inconvenience (if even that) should they never learn. 

And automatics are 100% better. In all conditions. Have been for decades. The Subaru automatic is far and away superior in traction, safety, reliability, and maintenance. Manuals are relegated to a very minor role as a (percieved) performance and enthusiast transmission, or for people that need to have a whole bunch of things to do with their hands for whatever reason unknown to all including them. 

All that said - I do take gleeful enjoyment in driving some of my manual vehicles. Mostly because it's now fun to be one of the few that knows how to use them. But I don't kid myself into thinking they are anything more than what they are - out dated relics. 

GD

The manual transmission isnt dead yet, not by a long shot, which is proven by the fact that more than 40 main stream vehicles, including pick ups and SUV's can still be had with them. As for your, automatics are better in every way statement, while they may be easier for most to drive, manual transmissions still give better fuel mileage, improved vehicle control (if you actually know the proper way to use it), and are actually cheaper and easier to maintain than an automatic (it is far quicker, and much easier, as well as cheaper, to just drain and refill gear oil, than it is to do a filter/fluid change on an automatic, especially since almost every newer automatic, you cant do yourself), just to name a few advantages. This article: https://www.carfax.com/blog/2019-manual-transmission-cars lists every vehicle that can still be had with a manual trans that are new for this year.

[biggman100]

On 1/20/2019 at 10:13 PM, milty60 said:

My son just purchased a 09 Subaru Forester. I am teaching him to drive standard shift - I drove standard 30 yrs ago - my father taught me if I remember correctly he said when slowing down down shift and use the brakes. My son has hit the web and he's seeing - throw it in neutral and use the brakes - don't wear out your tranny or clutch. The concern I have is - one is going 60+- mph or better exiting a highway - and suddenly needs to make an evasive move and hits the gas to power out of the way of some danger but now has to depress the clutch - shift to the best gear for the speed take a hand off the steering wheel to do this - etc. I don't like the idea of sitting in neutral on a highway or back road. What do you guys think? On modern engine/transmission are you going to wear out the clutch and tranny by downshifting when slowing down? Are you ok with riding in neutral. I'm open to all opinions. 

Thanks, 

Milty 

 

It is actually not advised, by any manufacturer, to just throw the car in neutral and stop it with just the brakes. Most have their recommended correct procedure spelled out in the owners manual. As for the debate about wearing out the clutch vs. the brakes, if driven properly, then neither one will wear out very quickly. Ive seen 8 years or more on the original brakes and clutch, so, my advice would be to research proper driving, shifting, and braking procedures.

[heartless]

9 hours ago, biggman100 said:

It is actually not advised, by any manufacturer, to just throw the car in neutral and stop it with just the brakes. Most have their recommended correct procedure spelled out in the owners manual. As for the debate about wearing out the clutch vs. the brakes, if driven properly, then neither one will wear out very quickly. Ive seen 8 years or more on the original brakes and clutch, so, my advice would be to research proper driving, shifting, and braking procedures.

could not agree more.

My 1st Subaru - an 89 GL wagon, 5 spd - needed a clutch when I bought it (super cheaply). Clutch got replaced along with new brakes and a few other items, and i drove the snot out of that car for over 8 years on the same clutch with no issue at all, then gave the car to my daughter, who also had no problems with it. Replaced the brakes once during those 8+ years. Timing belts were done a couple of times.

Now, wheel bearings - that was a whole different issue, LOL - those got replaced a few times. i put that off to cheap bearings - live and learn.

the point being, the car was 11yrs old when I got it, with approx 150k on the clock... it was nearing 300k when it was permanently retired in 2012 due to structural rust and to my knowledge, had 2 clutches in its entire 23 yr life.

Learn how to properly drive one and they will last a long time.

[wirelessenabled]

I guess I should modify my comment above.  It's not like I put the car in neutral on the freeway.  I go in to neutral at maybe 30-35 mph as I am nearing the stop sign/light.  I got 170,000 miles on the first clutch in my 2000 Outback Wagon.  Only changed the clutch then because, not knowing any better, I removed the transmission to replace the viscous coupler.  Driven plate on that clutch still had plenty of material on it.

Interestingly enough I replaced the original brake pads at the same time, ie 170,000 miles.

[wirelessenabled]

On 4/11/2019 at 6:51 AM, heartless said:

That is quite the claim.

i used to drive for a living (semi) so probably have many more miles under my belt than the average person.

granted, semis and cars are a little different, but not by that much - everything is basically just scaled up. Never took the semi out of gear and just coasted/used just the brakes to stop - always had it in the appropriate gear for the speed I was at - it is more about maintaining control, and being able to accelerate if need be, to get out of a potential bad situation.

 

Yeah you are probably right!   I currently drive about 16K miles a year.  In the 1970s and early 1980s I had a sales job and drove between 60K-80K per year.  Adding it all up I probably am short of 1 million miles on a stick.

[biggman100]

On 4/13/2019 at 8:03 AM, heartless said:

could not agree more.

My 1st Subaru - an 89 GL wagon, 5 spd - needed a clutch when I bought it (super cheaply). Clutch got replaced along with new brakes and a few other items, and i drove the snot out of that car for over 8 years on the same clutch with no issue at all, then gave the car to my daughter, who also had no problems with it. Replaced the brakes once during those 8+ years. Timing belts were done a couple of times.

Now, wheel bearings - that was a whole different issue, LOL - those got replaced a few times. i put that off to cheap bearings - live and learn.

the point being, the car was 11yrs old when I got it, with approx 150k on the clock... it was nearing 300k when it was permanently retired in 2012 due to structural rust and to my knowledge, had 2 clutches in its entire 23 yr life.

Learn how to properly drive one and they will last a long time.

My first Subaru was actually 3 of the exact same car, that i got as a package deal, which were green 5 speed Legacy L wagons. The guy i got them from bought them for who knows what reason, and didnt do anything with them, then sold them because his wife got sick of all the "project" cars he had that code was always nailing him for. I still have one of those cars, with 357,000 miles on it, and only now is it getting ready to need another clutch, which will only be the second one i have put in it, if i actually do it, since the body is showing its age badly now (i live in the rust belt unfortunately). Granted i haven't been driving it near as much the last 4 years, since i picked up a 2004 Impreza Outback Sport, and have a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee, but, i do put at least 2,000 miles on it a year, just for the hell of it (the stereo is still louder than the exhaust, even after the front flange rotted, so i just blast it and drive). I have way more problems with exhaust than i do clutch or even brakes on any of my cars. One of the other cars i bought, i sold to a kid that, even after teaching him how to drive it, went through 3 clutches in 7 years, and, the jeep he has now (2006 Compass) needs a transmission because he wont learn to drive it properly, and blew the trans "power shifting". The third one, we turned into an autocross/rallye car, that my wife wrecked the first season she ran it. Not her fault though, some guy "nudged" her into a tree hard, so, i kept all the useable parts out of it for spares, and, never used them, so i sold them just to get them out of my way.