pontoontodd Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 10 hours ago, FerGloyale said: Well horse crap. This damn project is moving backwards. #1) upon test assembly of the trans, it seems there is something amiss in the way either 1st or 2nd gear sets mesh. Something in the profile of the teeth, not any visible diffeerence though. It's a mismatch set. This is why you should never mismatch gearsets. There is a rythmic roughness felt when input shaft is turned. I disassembled, counted teeth, measured gear diameters, all seems to match up. Donor shaft came from an identical D/R 3.9 4wd 5-spd. IDK, It's my on;y option for now. I went ahead and put it together, and I will run it for a bit to test the suspension, and I'll prepared another good D/R for when this one inevitablely craps out. Oh well. Disappointing, still it felt like some move forward. #2) this one is the M%#%FU#%%^. Installed trans. Install crossmember, and hooked up axles to trans. After installing both roll pins, with front end on jacks stands, and wheels hanging at full droop, I rotate tires. Drivers side turns free and fine. Passenger side, won't rotate. turns almost a 1/3rd of turn, then stops. Puzzled, i investigate. Turning harder I can see the trans being pulled down against it's rubber mounts. It's the damn axle's angle. the side of the shaft is binding agains the 3 high ridges inside the inner CV cups! Both axles are brand new, smae brand (FEQ.....I know not OEM. But finding 2 good OE 23 spline IMP axles was not happening) Now, if I put a jack under one side, and compress suspension to lessen the angle eventually the binding stops and wheel turns freely. So I took apart the inner CV Cup. Nothing amiss (i had hoped maybe a piece was out of place in the bottom of the cup) The ridges between the 3 grooves had a slight bevel in the end. I took a dremel and ground down those edges more. took quite a bit of material, to the point I though I'd be ruining the grooves that the tripod rides in if I went further. It wasn't enough. Upon reassembly, the binding feeling is still there. Very light on 2 spots, but the 3rd still binding pretty hard. I know that under acceleration, the front suspension lifts and runs near full droop. If I leave it like this, it will be surely a terrible vibration and might just blow the cup apart. Gave up for the night. Super depressed. I might try to take the cup apart and grind out more, since it did seem to help on 2 of 3......maybe if I take them all a bit more it will be ok? Cheap rump roast aftermarkets anyhow already can't return. Before doing that, I might take the axle from the other side and swap sides, see if it does the same thing.....maybe it's a geometry issue? But I don't think so. Every measurement I can take show the left and right to be within 1/8th inch. I have a hard time believing that 1/8th in could make the difference. 1) hopefully that won't cause you any major problems. 2) It would be worth trying a different brand of axles, some of the aftermarket EJ axles definitely have less travel than the OEM EJ axles. Did anyone make six ball inboard joints for EA axles? Those seem to hold up better on the EJ cars than the tripods. If you're that close on clearance, the engine and trans not being exactly level side to side or some other minor issue could do it. Worst case you can just put a little less lift on that side, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted August 8, 2019 Author Share Posted August 8, 2019 3 hours ago, pontoontodd said: 1) hopefully that won't cause you any major problems. 2) It would be worth trying a different brand of axles, some of the aftermarket EJ axles definitely have less travel than the OEM EJ axles. Did anyone make six ball inboard joints for EA axles? Those seem to hold up better on the EJ cars than the tripods. If you're that close on clearance, the engine and trans not being exactly level side to side or some other minor issue could do it. Worst case you can just put a little less lift on that side, right? 1) yeah that's my hopes too as far as the trans. Maybe I will be very light throttle on it for a few long road cruises.....then change fluid maybe it'll "break in". Or it will just break. Meh.....trans is easy to replace. 2)Yeah...try different axles. I could do that. But I hate spending money on this project. This is my toy, and I can't let it take resources from my family. That's why almost all of this rig has been built out of second hand parts from my business. If I wanted to spend money to wheel I'd buy a JEEP!. Already maxed my summer budget for "maintenance" on all these new parts for front end. There are 6 ball axles, actually the OE FWD Imp ones would have been like that. Maybe I'll try to find some OE from junkyard again. If/when I go 4EAT, I will be able to use lots of variety Forester/Legacy/WRX wagon axles. those should have plenty of clearance. Just trying to get a few test miles on the suspension. 3) I really don't want to redo a lift block. And from what I found, I would have to drop the right side 1~ 2" before the axle comes into an angle that works. What I could do is lengthen the Arm another 1/4" on that one so that the tripod is just a little further out in the cup at full droop, and that would work. I think I am goin to try swapping axle sides, and see if the other does the same thing on that side. If so, then I know it's the geometry. If not, then it's that one friggin axle..... IDK, I think I'm gonna try and grind out the ridges between the tripod grooves again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) Well, it's not an anomalous axle. Swapped the driver side over to the passenger side and problem is the same. Since I modified one already for pass side, I moved that one driver, so now driver side should have plenty of clearance to turn free. Started fresh on modifying the second one. Untouched IMG_0168 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Look on the right side of the ridge. Ding from axle contact just turning it with a breaker bar. IMG_0167 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Cut out end of one ridge IMG_0169 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0170 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0171 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr I took the boot off and cleaned out the cup and reinstalled after modding one ridge. Here is at max droop, just barely clears. IMG_0173 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0174 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr And here you can see the untouched ridge approach and hit as the shaft rotates. IMG_0175 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0176 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0185 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Heres another 2 comparison shots at full droop. Untouched ridge hitting IMG_0183 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr and modded ridge clearing, this ones blurry, but you can see the gap....this is at full droop. IMG_0182 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Now for compressed angles, I wanted to see how far in the cup the tripod moves, to determine if my cut away from the ends of the ridges would be problematic. This was as much as I could get the arm to compress safely with jack under the control arm. You can see there is still 1~2" of uptravel left, but CV angles are almost flat by this point and won't change much more at full compression. IMG_0179 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Shaft clear of untouched ridge, and tripod way inside cup still. So I think I'm clear to grind out the other 2 ridges and be good. IMG_0180 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Another shot with the modded ridge up at the top just clockwise of the tiripod. blurry but you can see the joint is well insdie the cup, so my cutout shouldn't matter. IMG_0178 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Edited August 9, 2019 by FerGloyale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted August 10, 2019 Author Share Posted August 10, 2019 (edited) Ground the other 2 ridge ends The tool IMG_0188 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Baby steps. IMG_0189 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr All cut and sanded.IMG_0190 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0191 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Installed at full droop. just clears. all 3 ridges. IMG_0193 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0194 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0195 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr And for comparison, here is at 2/3rds compressed. Tripod still well in the cup, so I don't think popping out the ends because of what I removed will be a problem. IMG_0196 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr All that remains to be seen now, is if the flexing of trans on it's mounts during driving will cause interference with the ridges. there isn't much wiggle room to what I've done here. If this doesn't work.....I think I've got to lengthen the arms again another 3/8" in on pass, 1/4" on driver. The angle change I made to the ball joint pockets I think put the effective distance between the ball pivots 5/8th closer to each other. Probably will just work on getting the EJ crossmember and A-arm setup fabbed up rather than burn another set of XT6 arms or re-weld these a third time. Edited August 10, 2019 by FerGloyale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted August 11, 2019 Author Share Posted August 11, 2019 All together and test drove today. Weird howl from trans input shaft when in nuetral idling. Expected that. after short drive and idling it actually subsided quite a bit. I think if I don't hammer on 1st or 2nd gears for a few long cruises it might break in. I will change the Gear oil after about 50~100 miles, if it makes it that far, lol. Suspension actually performed really well. After driving a tad, the spirngs settled, and ride height is about 1-1/2" below "topped out". A bit high, but actually rode really nice, didn't feel like it was lifting under accel. I didn't notice anything that seemed like CV cup interference. Here's a shot sitting almost level. IMG_0198 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr And a sexy 14"+ ground clearance in the center. Slight lean to one side because of slope of my driveway and the dip it's straddling. IMG_0201 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Close up of the Arm IMG_0199 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jf1sf5 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Nice grinding of the cups, how much of an angle do you get now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted August 14, 2019 Author Share Posted August 14, 2019 On 8/11/2019 at 2:43 AM, jf1sf5 said: Nice grinding of the cups, how much of an angle do you get now ? i"m going to measure it soon. Had to dig up an angle gauge. I'm guessing almost 30 degrees. maybe more 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 The Passenger side front wheel bearing failed after about 200 miles. The other one was shot on the donor legacy the knuckle came from, so I'm not surprised this one was shot too. I had purchased a new EMPI axle to compare to the FEQ's I had to modify, so I took the opportunity to try it out since it was all apart. The EMPI has large diameter joints and a larger shaft. Feels like a six ball/cage design although I didn't pop the boot to check. Installed it on the car and all seems to be fine. So unless it fails suddenly, I am going to assume that the EMPI axles will be the way to go moving forward. The modified FEQ's will stay as spares. Front springs have settled in and are now about perfect. The rears have settled a lot. I am going to need kings or 4-runner springs in the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted September 1, 2019 Author Share Posted September 1, 2019 EMPI axle is giving some pretty nasty vibrations. I'm gonna run it a bit more, but perhaps it's not the best option I had hoped. Probably will put the modded FEQ axle back in before the trip to WCSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 6 hours ago, FerGloyale said: EMPI axle is giving some pretty nasty vibrations. I'm gonna run it a bit more, but perhaps it's not the best option I had hoped. Probably will put the modded FEQ axle back in before the trip to WCSS I'm been running an EMPI front axle on pass side of my GL wagon for 2 yrs, one that I had re-booted already because boot cooked & tore above the cat conv. I think I reversed the inner race for more reach inside the cup. It vibrates some still but not as bad as when new. Adding to X-member with a 1 inch spacer under 3 inch lift block helped CV angles too. 4 inch lift kit plus 1 inch spacer to help angles. Still carry a rebooted OEM axle on long trips though. Like from LA to Tucson & back for 1 k miles last weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted September 9, 2019 Author Share Posted September 9, 2019 So, the rear springs have settled, alot. Here is the problem I am running into. Tires stuffing against the door/wheel well. And no more room to cut IMG_0249 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Stiffer springs mght work, as well as mandatory bump stops.........But I'm trying to get this ready for WCSS21, and I don't want it on;y riding on bumpstops. Those are in the works this week. While working on that project, and trying to solve the weight/spring issue, and also making some tubular rear lateral links to replace the flexy stamped steel ones.........I had an AH HA!!! moment. While making the new lateral arm, I could put a landing for a second coil spring on it! Like many Mercedes, Ford, and GM multilink rear SUV suspensions. Side view both springs installed at full droop. IMG_0261 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr And a view of the rear arm, and spring setup. Upper landing may need moved outboard 1~2" or so.......I don't want it to interfere with the skid plate/subframe mount bolts. But for now it seems pretty solid. Test drive soon. IMG_0263 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontoontodd Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 1 hour ago, FerGloyale said: So, the rear springs have settled, alot. Here is the problem I am running into. Tires stuffing against the door/wheel well. And no more room to cut IMG_0249 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Can you cut more out of the door and wheelwell without affecting the door seal? Might have to weld the door stampings together before you do that. That's always something I'm looking at on my car in case I want to go wider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted September 9, 2019 Author Share Posted September 9, 2019 1 minute ago, pontoontodd said: Can you cut more out of the door and wheelwell without affecting the door seal? Might have to weld the door stampings together before you do that. That's always something I'm looking at on my car in case I want to go wider. There really isn't any more room to cut. The tire rubs against the flat area that is basically the back side of the wheel arch. Any more cutting than I've done would essentially be removing the wheel arch......shortening the rocker ends......losing the rear seatbelt mounts.....Like a full "tubbed" rear end that's done on fat tire hotrod dragsters, lol. Even if I want to go that way (which I do, eventually) I can't finish that before Friday afternoon departure for WCSS21......and I sure as hell don't want to be scraping tires all the way up I-5 and through the mud pit.......that would be hella lame. So this is what I'm doing. Might have to move the upper perch out some huh? IMG_0275 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) Mirrored the left arm and made a right. IMG_0277 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0278 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr I know the pivot bolt alignment looks weird on the screen. Hell it looks weird and off in person, but the alignment is actually spot on, angles are an illusion. You can see in this pic the second arm, tacked but not hammered/heated/welded ye, it looks way wonky, but by the final product both arms are straight and mirror to each other. IMG_0279 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr *FUN FACT, the tube in the new lateral arms here is from factory 1st Gen Brat "A" bar. It's from the same A-bar still on the front of ol' T-bone here! It's from a piece that was the original lower horizontal cross, I cut it out 10 years ago to change up the custom skidplate. If you ever wondered about those A-bar thickness, here you can see........pretty damn stout. I also made an upper perch for left side, and this one will be further outboard to hopefully correct the angle of the spring. If I have time, I will cut out and redo drivers side, but WCSS is coming up quick, . Also while the driversarm wasout, i took the time to make perch plates, and now both arms have full perches on the new lateral arms.....Pics to come. Edited September 10, 2019 by FerGloyale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) What did you do about the nasty front end vibrations? Change back to your modded inner DOJs? Or was that the rear tires rubbing? Edited September 10, 2019 by czny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 minute ago, czny said: What did you do about the nasty front end vibrations? Change back to your modded inner DOJs? Nah, it's really not that bad. I am still running the EMPI. If I have time before WCSS, I will change it out, otherwise I'm gonna run it and bring the FEQ as spare. I am working on a Hi-lift jack and front receiver mount too. Add 150 lbs of jack and winch to front bumper, along with stiffening the rump roast so it doesn't lurch backwards under throttle, and the CV might run at happier angles the whole way to Shelton, WA, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Yeah, think that those EMPI axles work best within the normal angles of an un-lifted Subie. But the inner races are not the best steels nor hardened well against wear. Maybe my one EMPI is just "finding its groove". Maybe your axles will too. Had a pic on here of high angle wear on those but Fotosuckit sucked the air out of that room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 More in progress. Full seats on both arms IMG_0355 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0354 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 more work. Upper perch for passenger side Damn upsidedown pics...you get it. IMG_0359 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0358 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0357 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr And welded onto the car. Further out, barely clears the upper arm, but it does. IMG_0360 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0361 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0362 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0363 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Spring in place under some load (about 1/3rd travel) IMG_0364 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0365 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted September 11, 2019 Author Share Posted September 11, 2019 Crap......Trans just popped second gear. Springs are awesome. Damn, gotta go pull a parts tranny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 21 minutes ago, FerGloyale said: Crap......Trans just popped second gear. Springs are awesome. Damn, gotta go pull a parts tranny. This came back to bite you eh? " #1) upon test assembly of the trans, it seems there is something amiss in the way either 1st or 2nd gear sets mesh. Something in the profile of the teeth, not any visible diffeerence though. It's a mismatch set. This is why you should never mismatch gearsets. There is a rythmic roughness felt when input shaft is turned. I disassembled, counted teeth, measured gear diameters, all seems to match up. Donor shaft came from an identical D/R 3.9 4wd 5-spd. IDK, It's my on;y option for now. I went ahead and put it together, and I will run it for a bit to test the suspension, and I'll prepared another good D/R for when this one inevitablely craps out. " Was going to build a D/R trans for myself so now I know not to mix gearsets. Although not a happy outcome, thanks for sharing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted September 11, 2019 Author Share Posted September 11, 2019 2 hours ago, czny said: This came back to bite you eh? Yeah, I thought it would work or it wouldn't, and at least I've had the use of the junk trans to test drive the suspension mods. I purposely stressed it today, to see if it would hold up to the task of towing 900lb trailer to WCSS........failed......better now than on the trip this weekend. I hauled a dump run of 900lbs from my house in my little trailer, and I stuffed 3 cinder blocks in the trunk just to see how it deals with the weight. As far as spring, it's plenty. Holy moly. It feels really progressive too......rides nice over little bumps, soaks up the big ones. SO......... Towed home. Removed broken trans. My son and I got it out in about 80 mins. Tomorrow I will pull trans from the monster t-cased XT. It's got a welded rear output, so I will have to swap that for the one on this junker trans I just pulled. Done for tonight. Enjoy pics of the super sprung rear end IMG_0367 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) Well, I got the spare trans installed.......... Had to pull it from the T-cased XT in the morning right after coffee. Then I had to pull the rear cover and 4WD output shaft off. For the T-cased application, I had removed the 4wd shift fork and welded the collar straight to the gear for maximum rear output strength. During the rehab, had a snafu dropping one of the Hi/Lo 4wd interlock pellets into the trans during reassembly. This required pulling the entire transfer section, and shaking the trans upside down to get the damn thing to fall out. Then I put the transfer section back on. Round 2 attempting to reassemble interlock pellets/springs/balls and 4wd fork. DOOOOH! dropped the damn pellet again. This time not so far in, and with a little rocking and turning over and a magnet tool it came out! 3rd attempt sucessful, 4wd interlock setup all togehter, ever pin, spring, pellet, and ball damnit. Try for test shift.......spoob...................can feel the tracks for 1/2 and 3/4 but cannot engage the 5/R track, and gears won't shift from nuetral into any 1-4 gears. I can feel teh engagement, but it won't move. Damn......I bumped the 5/R shaft forward into 5th while installing the Transfer section. Damnit Pull Transfer section again....yup, just as I thought, 5/R shifter slid forward into 5th. Reset to nuetral position, reinstalled transfer section, this time with shifter rod engagement proper and all good. Trans finished, sealed......I set about checking the clutch......It was figgin beautiful. I could have skipped it, but hell it's good to know the Exedy clutch and my left foot are working well together......that clutch has seen some considerable use.....and still looks good and meaty and fresh. Also welded some cracks and tears in the Y-pipe. Swapped a good bad trans mount for a good one and took some time to get the mounts solidly fixed to the crossmember. All in all it's all better than it was before. Reinstall trans, swapped out the shaky EMPI axle for the modified tripod FEQ axle while it was all apart. Test drive was stellar. No axle shake, trans is quite and strong feeling. Tiny amount of exhaust rub against frame makes a little rattle at some throttles, but it's totally benign I think. WCSS21 here we come. Pics of the welded output shaft, and of the cluster F%#* that is the 4wd D/R interlock. IMG_0372 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0371 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr IMG_0370 by Dans Subaru, on Flickr Edited September 12, 2019 by FerGloyale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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