YnotDIY Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Hey Ya'll Just checked my coolant levels last night and the reservoir tank was empty. Checked the rad and it was low as well. I'm fearing the worst...head gaskets starting to fail...got some sludge on the oil cap and a bit on the dip stick.... I've also heard it's possible to get these symptoms with a failing intake gasket...my hope (of course) are that the intake gaskets are failing to keep the coolant passage closed. In everyone's experience what do you think? I haven't noticed any major overheating, but the bit of sludge on the dip stick really has me worried. Is it possible to get these symptoms with a failing intake gasket? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) Drain the oil and have a look at what comes out, fingers crossed no milkshake! Don't worry about a bit of sludge on the dipstick. But that coolant dosen't just disappear, if you aren't burning it in the exhaust (white smoke on start up?) then it's going into the oil and those bearings will be hating life. That is the milkshake I am referring to and driving like that will ruin the engine in short order. Put cardboard underneath for a night after filling to check for leaks, and look closely at all the hoses. The best case scenario here is that the engine was empty of coolant when the radiator was filled, then capped and started and most of it went into the engine but there was enough not to overheat. So just top her if if that is the case. Replacing a head gasket is not the worst as you put it, but if the oil looks good still, just keep her full of coolant and make sure your temp gauge is in order, my buddy has an 88 whose by has been leaking years and stubbornly refused an ej22 swap. You don't happen to live in CO? Haha Edited January 25, 2019 by sparkyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptoe Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Each time I have hoped for failed intake gaskets, luck has not been on my side. It is 30 years old. Chances too likely the temp gauge sender is also. I have found some can't read over a safe quarter or half so when it is running hotter it won't tell you. At sludge forming stage you might try a coolant additive to seal cracks n gaskets and cross those fingers. If you drain sump watch for what comes out first. Water noticed with oil will come first if it's in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 I've only seen coolant in the oil once. Very blown headgaskets. Not the early initial stages when the coolant just keeps disappearing, or small bubbles in the recovery tank. I've been down this road a number of times. My experience with the coolant level you describe - it may have been drawn down by a slow leak anywhere - to the outside of the block, down the intake. But the level low in the radiator + over normal temperature [does not have to get into or even near the red] has always lead to failed head gaskets, it might be 6 days, might be 6 months. I never had one consuming coolant down the intake at a high enough rate to show smoke [steam] in the exhaust. To have a chance of saving it while troubleshooting, checking the coolant level before every drive is the only way. Do not open the radiator cap, check the bottle level. check the radiator by sharply squeezing the upper hose, and listen for gurgles and the jiggle pin. A tiny amount of air is ok, but a really tight system will have none. The important clue is does the amount of air increase each time you check? Does the level in the tank constantly get lower every time? When the leak is in the beginning stages, it will be very slow, takes a week of doing this to start to get an idea. I also found that running a zero pressure cap helps sort out whether this is air leaking in vs head gasket beginning to inject exhaust gas failure. At high altitude, it might not be a good idea to run zero pressure, but where I am, I never had a problem. When it's an intake or external leak, a pressurized system will force coolant out while hot. While cooling, air sucks back in through the leak. When it's a combustion chamber to coolant leak, the explosions force exhaust gas into the coolant long before coolant can leak into the cylinder. Think about the difference in the pressure involved on either side of the gasket... With zero pressure, there isn't suction while the engine cools, and you loose less while running, because it isn't being forced out. If it's an intake leak, the vacuum will still pull it out, but without the help of the 13PSI pushing it also. You could try just doing the throttle body and intake to head gaskets, but it would be good to do all the above monitoring first, to determine if the exhaust gasses are getting into the coolant, because that only means one thing. Regardless of how far you have to go - removing any of the engine bolts is best done with the engine [the mass of aluminum, not just heating the bolt head is the key] near 180degrees F. Unless you have previously disassembled it and used anti seize compound. I have been amazed at some of the bolts that I got out in one piece using this trick - they would have certainly twisted off if done at room temperature. The worse ones still took carefully rocking them to work them out, but none stripped or broke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Do the ea engines sometimes leak coolant onto the exhaust like the ej does sometimes? I forgot about that but that one might make one scratch their heads haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 If the crack between the valves is so bad it’ll work it’s way down the exhaust ports and open up into the coolant passages. But that’s typically seen in the turbo models. Head gaskets are the better option for this issue if the other is crack heads... Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YnotDIY Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 On 1/25/2019 at 1:03 PM, sparkyboy said: But that coolant dosen't just disappear, if you aren't burning it in the exhaust (white smoke on start up?) then it's going into the oil and those bearings will be hating life. It's hard to tell because it's been so hecking cold in Chicago (-20), but it believe I'm getting a lot of white smoke on start up. It seems to go away after a couple of minutes and I'm definitely smelling a sweet smell to the exhaust. Could that be some failed intake gaskets? I did change them when I got the car because they were leaking. I think I used some chepo gaskets. On 1/25/2019 at 10:28 PM, DaveT said: I've only seen coolant in the oil once. Very blown headgaskets. Not the early initial stages when the coolant just keeps disappearing, or small bubbles in the recovery tank. I've been down this road a number of times. My experience with the coolant level you describe - it may have been drawn down by a slow leak anywhere - to the outside of the block, down the intake. But the level low in the radiator + over normal temperature [does not have to get into or even near the red] has always lead to failed head gaskets, it might be 6 days, might be 6 months. I never had one consuming coolant down the intake at a high enough rate to show smoke [steam] in the exhaust. @DaveT When I first got on here i remember you saying to use good intake gaksets because the non-OEM ones are bogus. Maybe this is what's causing my problem and not Head Gaskets....my engine temps seem to be normal to me....what do ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 It can be. The oem intake gaskets are the only way to go. Need to resurface both sides if it has been leaking for a long time. These kind of intake leaks are one way to lead to headgasket failure. In the beginning, they sneakily drink the coolant, without smoke at first, and if you check the coolant level by relying on the temperature gauge, that's where you end up. BTDT. The engine temps usually don't start going all over until things are pretty bad. Save yourself a lot of trouble by checking the coolant level and air in the system frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Hoe to get to the end result - running reliably. There are tradeoffs in how you spend the time and $. I've dealt with numerous leaks, from simple loose hose clamps to failing headgaskets. With ea82s, many times since 1988. You can try replacing the easy stuff first. But if you don't meticulously monitor the coolant level and air in the system, things will just continue to get worse with every over normal temperature event. I can only decide if it's headgaskets after about a week of drive cycles with detailed monitoring. I've done it both ways, if I got the leak before it caused an overheat, no problem. If I got the overheat before I knew of the leak, it has always eventually or immediately required headgaskets. I no longer bother to spend all the time to sort it out if the overheat was high enough or repeated, it's too late at that point. I limp the engine in the car (adding water every day ) while i am resealing a spare, then swap. It's actually been a good while since I had any of these problems, because of catching them early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 31 minutes ago, DaveT said: It can be. The oem intake gaskets are the only way to go. Need to resurface both sides if it has been leaking for a long time. These kind of intake leaks are one way to lead to headgasket failure. In the beginning, they sneakily drink the coolant, without smoke at first, and if you check the coolant level by relying on the temperature gauge, that's where you end up. BTDT. The engine temps usually don't start going all over until things are pretty bad. Save yourself a lot of trouble by checking the coolant level and air in the system frequently. That coolant leak also poisons the cat converter & O2 sensor later on causing emission testing failures. I know that one from experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 That explains that.... I killed a catalytic that way. Running a beater that had a cracked head for many months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 These Subaru head gaskets can leak for literally years, i know someone personally! He just carries enough water with him to keep the radiator full. There was a top speed guy, standing mile i think, and his head gasket leaked just perfect to give him more power for a bit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YnotDIY Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 @DaveT I remember you also saying to check the coolant hoses and that there are 7? of them.... Obviously I know of the common 4. Inlet and outlet hoses for rad and heater core....where are the others? One tiny one off the water pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Short ebow on water pump top. Thin one under intake from thermostat pocket to the block. Slightly bigger one from back of the throttle body to a tap on one of the heater feed tubes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YnotDIY Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 when doing intake manifold gaskets with OEM gaskets is it necessary to coat them with coolant resistant goop? I've done this (as was suggested to me) with non OEM gaskets, but was curious what procedures ya'll use. Any Tips and Tricks?@DaveT @sparkyboy @el_freddo @czny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Make sure the faces are flat and clean. Use the OEM gaskets. I used no goop of any kind. They are slippery, so I doubt anything would stick. I might consider Hylomar Blue if I were to use anything. Anything you use must be rated to resist fuel. Fuel dissolves most gasket goops. Many state not to use for fuel applications, and [before I knew better] I have seen them disappear from similar situations. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Only thing I do after scraping off the old gasket is to wipe the mating surfaces with a white spirit like mentholated spirits. Then gasket on and bolt up to required torq specs. Cheers Bennie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) @YnotDIY I have used to cheapo blue paper gaskets in the past, and had no problems, just wipe the surfaces clean, torque to tightness feel by hand with a 1/4 ratchet. (i think it's only 12 ft/lbs but don't quote me on that) Then check the seal with spray...but i did replace with a set of beck arnley (or whatever the generic german brand is, Victor reinz?) black ones in a week so I never tested the cheapies long term. I like to keep my engine squeaky clean so i keep a can of brake cleaner lol! The thing about the cheap ones is that if you don't get them on evenly the first time, you might as well throw it in the trash. Just my experience. I don't see why a gasket sealer won't work. However, it's well documented on why oe quality is more critical in Subarus when it comes to gaskets, spark plugs and wires, etc...picky little turds, haha! Happy wrenching man! Oh one last thing, this was on an ej22, but I don't see why the same would not apply to an ea. Edited February 10, 2019 by sparkyboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Intake gaskets on an ea82 are not paper, even if aftermarket. They are around 1/8" thick. Every time I have used aftermarket intake gaskets, they failed much sooner than expected. And of course, caused low coolant over normal temperature operation, so I then had to replace headgaskets. I've seen the gasket sealant dissolved away from the intake ports. I had put it on. Later, when dissasembled, it was gone. Intakes ports carry fuel. It dissolves anything non fuel resistant away over time. Short term, lots of things seem to work, or will work. I am talking long term. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YnotDIY Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 @DaveT @sparkyboy @el_freddo @czny Swapped the intake gaskets with OEM. after taking the aftermarket off (which were totally ripped on both sides!) and looking into the engine, which was totally stained with coolant that was my issue! no more coolant loss and it’s running great. Looks like the head gaskets are safe for now! thanks for the help. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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