Chasing Coolant Steam: Update

[db*****]

35 minutes ago, ChemicalSoldier said:

Thermostat should come in today. Does it hurt the subies to run them without a thermostat? I know it'll take longer to warm up, but I'm thinking is the free flow will help narrow it all down. 

Got to work, bottom hose cold, top hose hot with only air in it.

I put a pressure relief cap on it, and when I lift the red tab, it begins to release pressure. 

You can run without a thermostat if you can get the thermostat housing to seal and you might not have heat. Just to verify, the pressure relief cap you put on is not oem?

I've heard bad things about those caps on subies. I'm almost positive that moving the thermostat from in front of the water pump to the top hose would help solve this, but no point in doing that if head gaskets are bad.  

[3Pin]

I am hoping the thermostat is the solution sir!

[ChemicalSoldier]

Tested for head gasket leak with the blue radiator suction bulb. Nothing, stayed blue. Tested it on the exhaust pipe, turned green almost immediately on its way to yellow. 

Up on the ramps she goes. Put in the new thermostat. (Please note I'm using water to fill this thing up. Real coolant is expensive.) Poured it in the top hose, reconnected, filled radiator. Drove it around the block. Overheating again. 

Decided to yank the thermostat altogether (used the O Ring to keep the seal). Filled her back up with water. Now that the thermostat shouldn't cause any issues (cause it ain't there), tried the head gasket test. Stayed blue. 

Previous owner did put a turning clamp on the lower hose where it connects to the elbow for the thermostat. Couldn't tell if it was leaking, just tightened it down cause it didn't look a good way of sealing it. Might be leaking when system is pressurized. 

There is condensation coming out of the exhaust which screams bad head gasket, but the test is negative. 

Lower hose is hot now of course. I gotta go to bed or I would have driven it. That'll come tomorrow. 60 miles round trip. 

11 hours ago, db***** said:

You can run without a thermostat if you can get the thermostat housing to seal and you might not have heat. Just to verify, the pressure relief cap you put on is not oem?

I've heard bad things about those caps on subies. I'm almost positive that moving the thermostat from in front of the water pump to the top hose would help solve this, but no point in doing that if head gaskets are bad.  

Not an OEM cap, but it does hold a seal. I'll take a pic of it tomorrow. 

10 hours ago, 3Pin said:

I am hoping the thermostat is the solution sir!

I removed it to see if it helps. 

[ChemicalSoldier]

Did a Vin Check.

It's a 2.2L not a 2.5L

Trying to fall asleep and realizing the lower radiator hose didn't look correct. Did a quick search and sure enough it might be the culprit of a leak. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by ChemicalSoldier

[idosubaru]

5 hours ago, ChemicalSoldier said:

Did a Vin Check.

It's a 2.2L not a 2.5L 

1996 manual transmission outbacks are the only 2.2 liter outbacks ever made, original post didn't say MT so we all just assumed it was a 2.5 since it's a blown headgasket.  

That explains the 320,000 miles.  Those routinely make high miles. 

5 hours ago, ChemicalSoldier said:

Trying to fall asleep and realizing the lower radiator hose didn't look correct. Did a quick search and sure enough it might be the culprit of a leak. 

"Doesn't look correct" - what does that mean? 

There's a leak?  If there's a leak that should be fixed first.   I'm not following this but it's either obviously a problem or not one at all.  

5 hours ago, ChemicalSoldier said:

Tested for head gasket leak with the blue radiator suction bulb. Nothing, stayed blue.

Those tests aren't always conclusive, they give false negatives meaning they don't show a headgasket leak even if there is one.

It's pretty obvious it's a headgasket leak, the previous owner was chasing a headgasket leak, and now you bought it that way.  It's been overheated enough I'm unsure I'd even want to keep the engine....but those headgaskets are super easy to replace.  You can see all the headbolts just by popping the car hood and looking, they're external.  
 

[ChemicalSoldier]

Poor girl died on me into work today. 

Wife brought my Dodge to tow it back to the house. So now it'll sit. 

Either I fix it (don't have the tools, shop, etc), sell it, or donate it for $500 on my taxes next year. 

One saving grace, is that a family friend that's a car dealer has a 2012 Outback on the lot that I'm going to purchase. So I'll still have a Subie.

Thank you again to everyone. It lasted five days, it was a gamble and another lesson learned. 

[lmdew]

www.car-part.com for a used 2.2, do the T-belt and seal and drop it in.  Good for another 100k.

[db*****]

40 minutes ago, lmdew said:

www.car-part.com for a used 2.2, do the T-belt and seal and drop it in.  Good for another 100k.

If you do that you could tear down your original 2.2 and see if it's rebuild able. Then you'll have two 2.2's. Pretty desirable 

[FerGloyale]

On 2/5/2019 at 10:12 PM, ChemicalSoldier said:

Tested for head gasket leak with the blue radiator suction bulb. Nothing, stayed blue. Tested it on the exhaust pipe, turned green almost immediately on its way to yellow. 

Up on the ramps she goes. Put in the new thermostat. (Please note I'm using water to fill this thing up. Real coolant is expensive.) Poured it in the top hose, reconnected, filled radiator. Drove it around the block. Overheating again. 

Decided to yank the thermostat altogether (used the O Ring to keep the seal). Filled her back up with water. Now that the thermostat shouldn't cause any issues (cause it ain't there), tried the head gasket test. Stayed blue. 

Previous owner did put a turning clamp on the lower hose where it connects to the elbow for the thermostat. Couldn't tell if it was leaking, just tightened it down cause it didn't look a good way of sealing it. Might be leaking when system is pressurized. 

There is condensation coming out of the exhaust which screams bad head gasket, but the test is negative. 

Lower hose is hot now of course. I gotta go to bed or I would have driven it. That'll come tomorrow. 60 miles round trip. 

Not an OEM cap, but it does hold a seal. I'll take a pic of it tomorrow. 

I removed it to see if it helps. 

Straight water will boil at operating temp.  you MUST add at least 30% coolant.

Only use OEM rad cap.  Get rid of the venting one.

HG tests like you used are not effective in diagnosing subaru HG leaks.

The fact that you keep getting air in the system is a clear sign that it is a HG leak.

It DOES happen on 2.2s.

Everyone always wants it to be something else, but 90% of the time an overheating subaru is a an HG failure.

 

[db*****]

13 minutes ago, FerGloyale said:

Straight water will boil at operating temp.  you MUST add at least 30% coolant.

Only use OEM rad cap.  Get rid of the venting one.

HG tests like you used are not effective in diagnosing subaru HG leaks.

The fact that you keep getting air in the system is a clear sign that it is a HG leak.

It DOES happen on 2.2s.

Everyone always wants it to be something else, but 90% of the time an overheating subaru is a an HG failure.

 

TBH I would guess that water would cavitate a lot more than Subaru coolant. Causing air in the system. Subarus don't have bad head gaskets. It's a side affect of how the cooling system works. 

Edited February 7, 2019 by db*****

[forester2002s]

3 hours ago, db***** said:

TBH I would guess that water would cavitate a lot more than Subaru coolant. Causing air in the system.

FYI: Cavitation doesn't cause air in the system.

Cavitation is the imploding of water-vapor bubbles, and which may eat away at metal surfaces, and has a distinctive 'gravel' sound.  But after the bubbles implode, all that's left is the original fluid.

Edited February 8, 2019 by forester2002s