EA81 replacement options for Brat wit auto trans

[jdkneppy]

Friend pulled the motor out of my Brat  GL automatic yesterday and pulled the heads off. Both heads are cracked between the valves and one cylinder has broken rings and scoured cylinder.  I am looking at 1981 EA81 and 1985 EA82 from manual transmission cars. How universal are the bell housings on these early to mid 80's Subaru's?  Trying to keep my Brat alive for another 10-915 years if possible. 

[FerGloyale]

 

Cracks between the valves are fine and common.  

Replace the piston rings and run it.

[FerGloyale]

Seriously, hone it and put new rings in it will be fine.

[DaveT]

I am not sure about EA81 heads.... But hose cracks on EA82s are common as dirt, and don't matter.   There was a TSB for them.

EA82 I think would bolt onto the trans - but the EA81 is more reliable and simpler.

[Crazyeights]

Those heads look fine. Find a new set of rings and put it back together.

[dfoyl]

In 10-15 years you won't get maintenance parts for either an EA81 or EA82 - you can't even get oil pumps for EA82s today. Long term EJ is a far better bet, you'll need an adaptor plate and a EA82 5-speed box.

[carfreak85]

15 hours ago, FerGloyale said:

Seriously, hone it and put new rings in it will be fine.

Don't hone it.  @GeneralDisorder

[Steptoe]

Does it need to be auto as it could limit reliable upgrade options that 3 speed 4WD auto? Cracks in heads always need testing no matter what any forum member suggests. The cost of testing could be more than cost of another set of decent heads. Many EA81 have just been refunded, but scored bore?Dunno. I always go overboard and review and new pistons. Worst I got was 120,000 km of hot, hard work out of my last poor thing

[silverhelme]

EJ it and keep the 3at if it is in good shape, at least for the short term. I've been running that setup for over two years with no problems but I don't have a lead foot and don't offroad. Maintain the trans properly and if it breaks replace it with a dual range.

[carfreak85]

If anything, keep the EA81 and ditch the 3AT, such a garbage transmission!

[Crazyeights]

4 hours ago, carfreak85 said:

If anything, keep the EA81 and ditch the 3AT, such a garbage transmission!

I agree ^^^ but in spite of that my 3AT still lasted for 250k!  It was still working when I pulled it out to swap it for a 5MT DR.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Crazyeights

[Steptoe]

6 hours ago, carfreak85 said:

If anything, keep the EA81 and ditch the 3AT, such a garbage transmission!

Such contrasting comments!

[DaveT]

It's odd.  I see so many seem to have trouble with the 3AT.  I'm heavy on gas.  Use the shifter to control upshifts.   Got over 200k miles on a few of them before needing anything more than a vacuum modulator.   I do run Amsoil synthetic ATF in them.

[idosubaru]

On 2/5/2019 at 5:27 PM, Steptoe said:

Cracks in heads always need testing no matter what any forum member suggests. 

It's not quite that simple. In general that would hold true, don't want to ignore cracks in heads. But EA82s (and ER and i guess EA81) are widely known to routinely have these cracks, I'm surprised if i "don't" see them. If you're going to discount "forum members" then you're also discounting Subaru because they've even said it's benign.  Many of us would easily be able to tell if they're problematic or not or need further testing.  i've been right 100% of the time for decades, but truthfully that's not saying anything really since it's really simple in this case. 

the EA82/ER engines you can check into the exhaust manifold ports and look for cracks there that have propagated from the valve side into the manifold which is where they'll be problematic.  that only happens on turbo's or significantly overheated vehicles.  i've never seen it on nonturbo heads. 

2 hours ago, DaveT said:

It's odd.  I see so many seem to have trouble with the 3AT.  I'm heavy on gas.  Use the shifter to control upshifts.   Got over 200k miles on a few of them before needing anything more than a vacuum modulator.   I do run Amsoil synthetic ATF in them.

i've never owned one but i've seen the same thing range of opinions.  another forum member has been around subaru's for 30-40 years and has always spoke highly of the 3AT and it's one or two maintenance needs like that modulator. he talks like they're decent if you know those one or two items people aren't familiar with.  but clearly people hate them too. 

[carfreak85]

15 hours ago, Crazyeights said:

I agree ^^^ but in spite of that my 3AT still lasted for 250k!  It was still working when I pulled it out to swap it for a 5MT DR.

When I bought my EA81T wagon the 3rd gear in the 3AT was dead.  I drove it 25 miles home in second gear, pulled it into my garage and yanked that sucker out, never looked back.  My EA81T coupe has never really run right, so I've never been able to get a good feel for the condition of its 3AT.  EA81Ts were like the SVX, they were born to have three pedals, but were saddled at birth with a slow, sloppy automatic.

The real problem with the 3ATs is that basically none of them were properly maintained in their youth (those one or two maintenance items mentioned above) so nearly all of them are junk at this age.

[FerGloyale]

On 2/5/2019 at 2:27 PM, Steptoe said:

 Cracks in heads always need testing no matter what any forum member suggests. The cost of testing could be more than cost of another set of decent heads

You obviously haven't tried to source heads in the USA.  They are not easy to find or cheap.  The idea that testing could be more $ than new heads is 1) incorrect 2) if it were correct, would be an argument for running the heads as is and not testing.  Save money towards buying heads if there is a problem.  it's an EA81 so if you have to pull heads again it's like a 20 min job in car, lol.

The only "test" that needs to be done is spray a bunch of carb cleaner into the intake and exhaust ports.  Set the heads so that the puddled cleaner is trapped by the valves.  Watch for any seepage around the valve seat or from those cracks.  If none, or just a wisp of wetness, they are fine.  If they drip the valve seat is shot.

There is no water jacket near those cracks.  They are common, and Subaru has even said they are OK since the 80's.  The ones in yer pics are particularly small and benign.  This isn't an aircraft motor I assume?

 

 

[jdkneppy]

I pulled the trigger yesterday on salvage yard EA81 from a 1981 Brat for $300. Has 138k miles and 130# compression on all cylinders.  Cost of used heads was more than my complete engine and my EA81 has some more issues other than the heads. My neighbor couldn't get the piston out to replace the broken rings due to blocked wrist pin port. He wasn't sure if it was the piston sleeve or ??

I am looking at 1984 GL wagon for the manual transmission/drive train. I know my automatic transmissions life is limited, but so far so good at 203,000 miles. Only problem so far is modulator  valve and that was an easy fix.

I appreciate all your help and advice and I will keep my old engine and see if I can revive it for a future project. Hoping to get my 83 Brat on the road again by spring. I know I was being overly optimistic about another 10-15 years out of it, but I probably won't be able to drive that long myself.  Long live the Brat. I will post again when I get it back into operation. 

 

[FerGloyale]

30 minutes ago, jdkneppy said:

I pulled the trigger yesterday on salvage yard EA81 from a 1981 Brat for $300. Has 138k miles and 130# compression on all cylinders.  Cost of used heads was more than my complete engine and my EA81 has some more issues other than the heads. My neighbor couldn't get the piston out to replace the broken rings due to blocked wrist pin port. He wasn't sure if it was the piston sleeve or ??

I am looking at 1984 GL wagon for the manual transmission/drive train. I know my automatic transmissions life is limited, but so far so good at 203,000 miles. Only problem so far is modulator  valve and that was an easy fix.

I appreciate all your help and advice and I will keep my old engine and see if I can revive it for a future project. Hoping to get my 83 Brat on the road again by spring. I know I was being overly optimistic about another 10-15 years out of it, but I probably won't be able to drive that long myself.  Long live the Brat. I will post again when I get it back into operation. 

 

Yeah if the wrist pin hole is blocked then the sleeve has spun.  Good call to dump that block.  That said, those 83 heads are still usable, big valves, and hydro lifters.  The 81 you bought will be solid lifters, and small valves....might want to swap those out. 

FYI, also I have a good working 4spd D/R, rear diff, and driveline from an 84 wagon.  I'd pass it on pretty cheap if you want it.

[Steptoe]

On 2/15/2019 at 9:46 AM, jdkneppy said:

I pulled the trigger yesterday on salvage yard EA81 from a 1981 Brat for $300. Has 138k miles and 130# compression on all cylinders.  Cost of used heads was more than my complete engine and my EA81 has some more issues other than the heads. My neighbor couldn't get the piston out to replace the broken rings due to blocked wrist pin port. He wasn't sure if it was the piston sleeve or ??

I am looking at 1984 GL wagon for the manual transmission/drive train. I know my automatic transmissions life is limited, but so far so good at 203,000 miles. Only problem so far is modulator  valve and that was an easy fix.

I appreciate all your help and advice and I will keep my old engine and see if I can revive it for a future project. Hoping to get my 83 Brat on the road again by spring. I know I was being overly optimistic about another 10-15 years out of it, but I probably won't be able to drive that long myself.  Long live the Brat. I will post again when I get it back into operation. 

 

No. Not tried to buy EA81 heads in US but recall an Australian guy being told by some kid that A$40 each was too much. I've thrown them out in the past ! I still have several sets. Just how much are US guys paying for a used EA81 head?

[jdkneppy]

Not sure what they are paying for EA 81 heads but are asking $285-315 each and I could get mine rebuilt for less than that. Hence the purchase of a complete engine.  I could possibly rebuild my original engine with good heads. Where are you located? 

[FerGloyale]

On 3/12/2019 at 2:29 PM, jdkneppy said:

Not sure what they are paying for EA 81 heads but are asking $285-315 each and I could get mine rebuilt for less than that. Hence the purchase of a complete engine.  I could possibly rebuild my original engine with good heads. Where are you located? 

if that is the engine with the spun sleeves forget it.  It's junk.  probably not even in round anymore.

[jdkneppy]

On 3/17/2019 at 12:44 PM, FerGloyale said:

if that is the engine with the spun sleeves forget it.  It's junk.  probably not even in round anymore.

It is interesting that with over 200k miles there isn't a ridge at top of the cylinders from ring wear.  So no hope for this block with the spun sleeve? Since it is original to the Brat I was planning on keeping it, for the time being.  I could get the existing heads rebuilt, but no point if the block is trashed.

Got my 1981 EA 81 installed and running. Still have to replace the water pump and some carb work, but running. Died twice on the freeway coming home from South of Albany Sunday at 60mph, then again in town at 35mph. I need to check all the electrical connections etc. I had it up to 65mph on the I-5 and was doing pretty well, but didn't want to push it right out of the gate.