1998 Legacy GT coolant change FAIL

[Stevo F]

I set out to replace the coolant in our '98 GT today. I drained the system, filled back up with distilled water, repeated and then filled with concentrated coolant. I was having more trouble than with my other 2nd gen Legacy's in bleeding the air out of the system (my '98 wagon with an EJ22 usually also takes some effort to bleed the system as well).. Raced the motor a few times, opened the valve on the top of the radiator to burp the system, etc... Finally got good heat from it and the temp went from slightly above normal back to normal.

Thought all was good until the temp went back up and the heat went cool again. Added more coolant and repeated the steps to rid the air from the system. I never had one that gave me this much trouble. When I shut it off, I then heard the sound of fluid pouring out on the ground and saw lots of coolant coming from the front of the engine.

Soooo, I'm guessing there was enough pressure buildup in the cooling system to cause the water pump to blow a seal? Any other thoughts?

I'm assuming the worst that it needs a new water pump, at this point.

Here's a video of the leak:

 

 

[jonathan909]

The worst would be a cracked block, but that doesn't seem likely.  I'd be getting that timing cover off of there asafp to confirm the water pump.

[nvu]

water pump shaft seal is bad

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by nvu

[ocei77]

Change the water pump. If the T belt is due might as well do it with new idlers.

When filling the car start with coolant in the upper radiator hose. Then the radiator.

With our t stats on the bottom of the block, you will never fill it by just adding to the radiator.

 

O.

[heartless]

13 hours ago, ocei77 said:

Change the water pump. If the T belt is due might as well do it with new idlers.

When filling the car start with coolant in the upper radiator hose. Then the radiator.

With our t stats on the bottom of the block, you will never fill it by just adding to the radiator.

 

O.

this, for sure.. if it is even close to being due, do it.

also 100% agree with filling the block first via the upper hose, preferably with the nose of the car in the air, then connect the hose & fill radiator. Never had an issue doing it this way.

[GeneralDisorder]

You have a bad water pump. That leak is from the "weep hole" which is not visible till you remove the pump. 

You don't want to run straight water in the system as it has no shaft seal lubricating properties like coolant does. The pump was likely on its way out already though. 

GD

Edited March 18, 2019 by GeneralDisorder

[Stevo F]

Thank you all for the advice.

The previous owner told me that they did the complete timing belt/ tensioner/ water pump at 92K miles when the headgaskets were done (it has 103K miles now). I'm thinking when I get it over to my mechanic to make sure he looks over the timing belt assembly as well makes sure there are no leaky crank or cam seals while he's in there. Not sure it woulds be worth replacing any of it when there's hopefully 90K miles left before it needs another timing belt.

 

I will definitely try filling the engine from the upper hose next time. I had no issues with trapped air at all when changing coolant on my 2003 Forester (also replaced heater hoses and thermostat at the time) as well as my EJ22 '97 GT

[GeneralDisorder]

Poor quality parts were used if this is failing 9,000 miles after replacement. Replace it all with Japanese parts. 

If that's the quality of water pump used..... I would be questioning all of it including the head gaskets and the labor.

GD

Edited March 18, 2019 by GeneralDisorder

[Stevo F]

As for new timing belt kits/ water pumps- what the recommendations for good quality parts- I've always sworn by Gates, but I hear their quality has slipped recently.

[idosubaru]

2 hours ago, Stevo F said:

what the recommendations for good quality parts-

this:

14 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

Replace it all with Japanese parts. 

Get them from Subaru or Aisin kits on rockauto/amazon. 

I'd replace the cam and crank seals too and reseal the oil pump while the timing belt is off. 

[1 Lucky Texan]

OEM all the way or, if not, Japanese manufacture;  Aisin waterpump, Mitsuboshi belt, Japanese bearings in the rollers....

 

[carfreak85]

Dealership is always the safest bet, but if you do some research you can find the OEM parts much cheaper online.

[jonathan909]

Guys, it's always easy to say OEM/dealer, but for an awful lot of stuff it's simply not realistic.  There are two dealers here.  They quoted me $170 (CDN) for an EJ25D belt - and at that price I would still have had to wait for it to come in from Portland (i.e. no local stock).  Instead I landed a Mitsuboshi from an ebay vendor for about a third of that price.

 

[idosubaru]

29 minutes ago, jonathan909 said:

Guys, it's always easy to say OEM/dealer, but for an awful lot of stuff it's simply not realistic.  There are two dealers here.  They quoted me $170 (CDN) for an EJ25D belt - and at that price I would still have had to wait for it to come in from Portland (i.e. no local stock).  Instead I landed a Mitsuboshi from an ebay vendor for about a third of that price.

 

We basically said the same thing - get OEM supplier parts. No one is saying he has to use the dealer, it's an option but not a requirement. 

But more importantly, on a discussion forum one expects a discussion, not a treatise. The OP can ask for options if they're not accustomed to sourcing parts or pricing is an issue.  It's a discussion and that'll come out as needed. 

[FerGloyale]

16 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

Poor quality parts were used if this is failing 9,000 miles after replacement. Replace it all with Japanese parts. 

If that's the quality of water pump used..... I would be questioning all of it including the head gaskets and the labor.

GD

+1

I'll bet it's got a paper gasket.  That could be the failure too.

I'd replace that whole timing belt setup

[jonathan909]

1 hour ago, idosubaru said:

We basically said the same thing - get OEM supplier parts. No one is saying he has to use the dealer, it's an option but not a requirement. 

But more importantly, on a discussion forum one expects a discussion, not a treatise. The OP can ask for options if they're not accustomed to sourcing parts or pricing is an issue.  It's a discussion and that'll come out as needed. 

We  don't have to get contentious - what you're calling "a treatise" I'd call "a  proffered opinion".  We do this because the OP may not be aware that such a huge disparity in parts pricing exists, and thus may not know to ask.

[Stevo F]

Does this kit look like a good one?

https://www.amazon.com/AISIN-TKF-009-Engine-Timing-Water/dp/B0171KSFV2

 

[idosubaru]

1 minute ago, jonathan909 said:

We  don't have to get contentious 

no one is.  we're essentially meaning the same thing and clarifying through discussion.  that's all. 

[idosubaru]

3 minutes ago, Stevo F said:

Does this kit look like a good one?

https://www.amazon.com/AISIN-TKF-009-Engine-Timing-Water/dp/B0171KSFV2

 

yes, AISIN is commonly used by those wanting a one-stop shop for nearly subaru parts.
it's $260 +shipping with a 5% discount code at rockauto

while the coolant is empty and you have to remove the thermostat anyway, it's a good time to replace that with Subaru as well. 

If possible - check first before buying parts.  we're assuming unknown age/brand but is there any possibility some of it is new subaru once you get in there?

[carfreak85]

2 hours ago, jonathan909 said:

Guys, it's always easy to say OEM/dealer, but for an awful lot of stuff it's simply not realistic.  There are two dealers here.  They quoted me $170 (CDN) for an EJ25D belt - and at that price I would still have had to wait for it to come in from Portland (i.e. no local stock).  Instead I landed a Mitsuboshi from an ebay vendor for about a third of that price.

 

People need to be able to think critically for themselves.  If we give a few options on where/how to source parts we expect the person on the receiving end to do a bit of research on their own.  If the recommended (dealer) part is too expensive for the OP, it is on them to seek out equivalent alternatives, not mine.  The old adage about teaching a man to fish comes to mind.

The affordability of dealer parts is up to the end user.  When I was in high school and college and living on a tight budget I would usually lean towards the least expensive option, often to have that part fail shortly after.  Now that I'm an adult with a solid job and a dual income household (no kids) I have zero problem going to the dealership for parts, especially when I know there is a massive gap in quality between OEM and aftermarket, as is the case with head gaskets and other parts, such as EA81 intake manifold gaskets.

[jonathan909]

Of course - the difference in both quality and price between OEM and "the aftermarket" is a given.  What I was saying is that massive price disparities exist among parts of equivalent OEM quality - that in the stated example, going to the dealer means paying three times as much for the same Mitsuboshi belt.  That's all.  Not recommending anyone "cheap out"; to the contrary, pointing out that the high-quality/low-price combination exists, so don't get taken.

Myself, I like Terry Pratchett's version of that old adage:  Make a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

[Stevo F]

Update- Bought the complete Aisin timing kit from Rock Auto and had my mechanic install it. Everything was a little under $700 including labor. The car runs great and I know it's got decent quality parts in there. The way it's going we'll likely need to replace the belt again from age instead of miles.