Baja vs. Brat

[craigmcd]

What are the main difference between the Baja & Brat. Were they made in different model years? Are all the models 4 cylinder engines? 

[Numbchux]

Baja was '02-'06, and Brat was '70s-'88 (I think, I might be off a year or so here or there, also that's in the US market, Brat was made longer in other countries under different names).

Yes, they're very different. Both only 4 cylinders. Both were available with a 4-cyl turbo for a couple years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_BRAT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Baja

Edited April 1, 2019 by Numbchux

[FerGloyale]

Brats have only 2 doors

Bajas have 4 doors.  And a pass through from the bed to the cab.

[craigmcd]

Thanks for the replies. My wife guessed that 2 or 4 doors was part of the answer. The cab pass through is cool.

Is one of these more 'disireable' then the other?  I see them in my region occasionally, usually the Brat.  I don't know how to spell disireable.

Thanks for the info. C

[el_freddo]

Brat (Brumby!) more desirable in my book. Better load tray setup - front and rear of rear axle, Baja has only rear of the rear axle. 

But the Baja drivetrain is “better” by today’s standards. The little EA81 in the brat does it’s job and is basically bullet proof but the power and torque of the EJ engine coupled with the AWD box is more desirable items to have under the bonnet of the brat. Power to weight ratio is awesome with this setupin the brat. 

At the end of the day you’ve got to be the one enjoying looking at it and driving it.  The brat can feel quite agricultural if your other car is a late model. It’s a step up from a tractor with its heater and ability to do highway speeds  

I love my brat (Brumby), and hope to be doing an EJ22 and AWD box swap in the near future, keeping the stock drivetrain for later if I want to revert back to stock. 

Lastly, the brat had a very long production run compared to that of the Baja.

Cheers 

Bennie 

Edit: the Baja is only available stateside. I believe it was a Subaru of America conception against the advice of Subaru Japan. Belly flop, but a very unique vehicle for the Subaru line up too. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by el_freddo

[Numbchux]

13 hours ago, craigmcd said:

Thanks for the replies. My wife guessed that 2 or 4 doors was part of the answer. The cab pass through is cool.

Is one of these more 'disireable' then the other?  I see them in my region occasionally, usually the Brat.  I don't know how to spell disireable.

Thanks for the info. C

"desirable"  

 

They're so different, it's not really comparable. The Brat is more rugged, simple, and utilitarian (larger bed, true 4WD with low range, EA81 engine). The Baja is more refined, comfortable, and modern. About as you'd expect for 2 vehicles 25-30 years apart.

 

They're both quite sought-after. I have a rusted out POS of a brat, and I've had a couple people come knock on my door and ask me if I'd sell it (and because I've watched for them for sale, too, I've said no). And my wife wants a Baja something fierce, so I've been watching for one of those, and they command huge value. 300k miles, headgaskets pouring, slipping transmission, and considerable rust (tough, because they have even more plastic on the sides that the Outbacks on which they are based)? I'll let it go for $3k.

[1 Lucky Texan]

The other truck model looked like this;

 

[Subasaurus]

Chicken Tax, that's why the Baja has 4 doors, still in effect today btw.

most pickups are 4 doors out there or atleast extended cabs with seats in the back, even if they face sideways (that practice is now illegal because in a front collision, seatbelts won't do anything, so auto manufacturers need to find another loophole), auto makers don't like selling 2 door pickups, too much tax to pay if they're not built in the USA, which most aren't.

[Numbchux]

17 minutes ago, Subasaurus said:

Chicken Tax, that's why the Baja has 4 doors, still in effect today btw.

most pickups are 4 doors out there or atleast extended cabs with seats in the back, even if they face sideways (that practice is now illegal because in a front collision, seatbelts won't do anything, so auto manufacturers need to find another loophole), auto makers don't like selling 2 door pickups, too much tax to pay if they're not built in the USA, which most aren't.

Baja is built in the US, though. So my understanding is the chicken tax wouldn't apply.

[Subasaurus]

1 minute ago, Numbchux said:

Baja is built in the US, though. So my understanding is the chicken tax wouldn't apply.

oh interesting, never knew that! then i have no idea why it's 4 doors then, unless they took the Outback and chopped it like they did the GL Wagon and made a Brat?

if that's not the case, then it was dumb to not provide a 2 door variant with a longer bed.

[Crazyeights]

1 hour ago, Subasaurus said:

oh interesting, never knew that! then i have no idea why it's 4 doors then, unless they took the Outback and chopped it like they did the GL Wagon and made a Brat?

if that's not the case, then it was dumb to not provide a 2 door variant with a longer bed.

If they made a 2 door variant with the longer bed I would own one by now

[el_freddo]

11 hours ago, Subasaurus said:

oh interesting, never knew that! then i have no idea why it's 4 doors then, unless they took the Outback and chopped it like they did the GL Wagon and made a Brat?

But they didn’t chop the wagon. The brat/brumby has a longer wheel base than the wagon. The wagon has the same wheel base as the hatch if I’m not mistaken. 

11 hours ago, Subasaurus said:

if that's not the case, then it was dumb to not provide a 2 door variant with a longer bed.

Yes, yes it was. So much potential there that hindsight shows us it was a bad decision to go with the 4 door. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Numbchux]

17 hours ago, Subasaurus said:

oh interesting, never knew that! then i have no idea why it's 4 doors then, unless they took the Outback and chopped it like they did the GL Wagon and made a Brat?

if that's not the case, then it was dumb to not provide a 2 door variant with a longer bed.

Yes, it's completely based on the Outback. The differences are pretty minor. Just like the Brat, it has a longer overhang past the back wheels, so a longer overall length. But the wheelbase is the same as the Outback. Suspension (different spring rates for a slightly taller ride), brakes, etc. Never an H6 option, though (I'd love to find a flooded one, and gut it down to bare metal and swap Outback VDC interior, wiring and drivetrain into one).

The Baja did carry on after the BE/BH Outback was replaced, and so the Baja got some of the changes that happened in 05-06, mainly the turbo engine option and immobilizer.

[sparkyboy]

Brat = sweet

Baja = sucks

Baja is ugly and wack with no 4wd.

The brat murders the Baja in every category, except maybe drag racing with factory equipped vehicles. You can have the same number of passengers if you can find the jumpseats too.

I knew a guy that had a baja and he hated that turd. Too heavy to whip on road or off. At least they didn't name that monstrosity brat, like they completely basrardized the once proud xt moniker.

Get the brat, please. If you already have the money for a used Baja, buy 3 or 4 brats.

Edited April 4, 2019 by sparkyboy

[FerGloyale]

I've sold all my Brats because I have a family.  Can't take kids and Wife anywhere.

Pretty sure Subaru did marketing/demographics research that showed that Baja should be 4 door to appeal to the people who could actually buy one new when introduced.

I would love to have Baja.

Brat's are a collectible novelty now.  Totally impractical as a daily driver.

Baja is an actual car you could own and drive everyday with a family.

Edited April 5, 2019 by FerGloyale

[el_freddo]

Well that’s one opinion. Many Brumbys over here are daily driven. 

We’ve got a family bus and my brumby. Laws allow me to travel with one of my children in the front seat once of a certain age and height to fit into a booster seat. 

Where Subaru ultimately went wrong was leaving the rear axle forward of the load area, it should’ve been centralised for better ride handling and load carrying ability. 

My 20c.

Cheers 

Bennie

Edited April 6, 2019 by el_freddo

[FerGloyale]

On 4/4/2019 at 10:47 AM, sparkyboy said:

Brat = sweet

Baja = sucks

Baja is ugly and wack with no 4wd.

The brat murders the Baja in every category, except maybe drag racing with factory equipped vehicles. You can have the same number of passengers if you can find the jumpseats too.

I knew a guy that had a baja and he hated that turd. Too heavy to whip on road or off. At least they didn't name that monstrosity brat, like they completely basrardized the once proud xt moniker.

Get the brat, please. If you already have the money for a used Baja, buy 3 or 4 brats.

4EAT can lock rear transfer hydraulically, has 4.44 final through torque converter so effectively same crawl as 3.9 lo range 4spd in brat.  With larger tires, more clearance. VLSD rear diff and stronger axles.

The jump seats are not safe, let alone legal. They didn't have seatbelt for a start.  And the "oh SH$#" handles are more like "Oh SH$#, this thing just stabbed me in the spleen!"  So I won't be putting my wife and infant kids in them any time soon.  Plus if you put a bench seat in the back of the Baja you can seat 5 not 4.

Nice Brats go for more than used Bajas in my area.  You could not buy 3 or 4 of them.  Maybe 2 piles of rusted parts or 1 fairly nice brat.

I'm not at all knocking Brats.  I love them.  They are just not even comparable to a Baja.  It's like comparing apples and bigger, safer, faster, more capable apples. 

[sparkyboy]

5 hours ago, FerGloyale said:

4EAT can lock rear transfer hydraulically, has 4.44 final through torque converter so effectively same crawl as 3.9 lo range 4spd in brat.  With larger tires, more clearance. VLSD rear diff and stronger axles.

The jump seats are not safe, let alone legal. They didn't have seatbelt for a start.  And the "oh SH$#" handles are more like "Oh SH$#, this thing just stabbed me in the spleen!"  So I won't be putting my wife and infant kids in them any time soon.  Plus if you put a bench seat in the back of the Baja you can seat 5 not 4.

Nice Brats go for more than used Bajas in my area.  You could not buy 3 or 4 of them.  Maybe 2 piles of rusted parts or 1 fairly nice brat.

I'm not at all knocking Brats.  I love them.  They are just not even comparable to a Baja.  It's like comparing apples and bigger, safer, faster, more capable apples. 

And you're right, the Baja is certainly not without its charms and I'm clearly biased here.

Not quite apples and oranges...apples and crab apples maybe! 

To the op if you are considering between the two, just drive both and see what suits your driving style. I bet the brat puts a bigger smile in your face and ej22 swap!

Cheers man! 

[el_freddo]

8 hours ago, FerGloyale said:

'm not at all knocking Brats.  I love them.  They are just not even comparable to a Baja.  It's like comparing apples and bigger, safer, faster, more capable apples.

I loved this line!

as for axles, I reckon the brumby is on par for axle strength. The issue is that the brat runs in front wheel drive all the time so “power” is only pushed through two shafts as opposed to some real power using all four shafts. 

Many wrx conversions are done to the brat so the shafts must be doing alright in the strength department. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Maybe a li'l off topic here, but... 

As far as I know, Subaru is planning to offer a Big double cab Pick-up Truck, based on the Subaru Ascent,

just in the way Honda sold their Ridgeline.

 

https://www.ascentforums.com/forum/9-2019-subaru-ascent-general-discussion-forum/6839-subaru-pickup-based-ascent.html

 

 

[Subasaurus]

On 4/9/2019 at 12:14 AM, Loyale 2.7 Turbo said:

Maybe a li'l off topic here, but... 

As far as I know, Subaru is planning to offer a Big double cab Pick-up Truck, based on the Subaru Ascent,

just in the way Honda sold their Ridgeline.

 

https://www.ascentforums.com/forum/9-2019-subaru-ascent-general-discussion-forum/6839-subaru-pickup-based-ascent.html

 

 

definitely not offtopic! thank you for the info i had no idea about

[FerGloyale]

On 4/8/2019 at 10:14 PM, Loyale 2.7 Turbo said:

Maybe a li'l off topic here, but... 

As far as I know, Subaru is planning to offer a Big double cab Pick-up Truck, based on the Subaru Ascent,

just in the way Honda sold their Ridgeline.

 

https://www.ascentforums.com/forum/9-2019-subaru-ascent-general-discussion-forum/6839-subaru-pickup-based-ascent.html

 

 

I sure hope they put a real "truck" engine in it.  Like the 3.6 or even the Turbo diesel.

If it's got the 2.4 turbo gasser that the ascent has, it will be worthless for towing, and not reliable as a "workhorse".

Unless it's diesel, or being driven regularly over 8000 ft alt., there is no good reason to have a turbo.  Just a good way to make a good engine die sooner.

[sparkyboy]

On 4/5/2019 at 7:51 PM, FerGloyale said:

The jump seats are not safe, let alone legal. They didn't have seatbelt for a start.  

Here in CO at least, if its oe its legal. 

I have two examples:

1953 chevy bel air. Came without seatbelts (optional in 53) cops cant do nuttin bout it. 

1980s mercedes and audi wagons

Rear facing jump seats! Tint the rear window dark cause an ignorant cop might think you are in the cargo area and bump you. 

Why are the brat jump seats so hard to find? Brats aren't particularly rare!

 

[FerGloyale]

14 hours ago, sparkyboy said:

Here in CO at least, if its oe its legal.

 

Yeah, but it's still stupid.  I'm not worried about the cops I'm worried about my children being maimed or killed. 

I have a wife,  a 6'2" 15 year old, and a 2 year old, and another on the way.  Brat ain't gonna cut it. No way, o how.

14 hours ago, sparkyboy said:

 

Why are the brat jump seats so hard to find? Brats aren't particularly rare!

 

Brat's are actually one of the rarest and most desirable car's of the 80's.  Actually Autotrader ranked them highest for search vs. listings ratios of all 80's cars.  Find me listings for good ones.  I dare you.

There's probably less than 200 listed for sale in the US right now.  Compared to literally  thousands of Baja's in the country for sale.

That being said I've got 5 brat  jumpseats if you want to buy some.

[sparkyboy]

They were few built, and yes #1 on scarcity list. But it's funny I always see them for sale here! People like to horse around with them then tire of them I guess, but there are two brats less than 2k and a 1979 dl wagon for $1000!

https://westslope.craigslist.org/cto/d/montrose-1985-subaru-brat/6860665713.html

The xts are impossible to find around here. 

I turned down an 85 brat for $800 running and driving because my german shepherd didn't like it! Lol

@FerGloyale I agree with you on the matter of the brat jumpseats being about as safe as a motorcycle you face backwards on and have no control over, but a brat with jumpseats would be the best one at the drive in movies or tailgate party! Plus you have a 15 year old? Now a brat would be the coolest in high school! Ej swap would make her safer for everyday traffic! No jump seats until the ej engine and roll bar is installed would be my stipulations if my kid wanted a brat.

Let's face it boys the brat is third to the el Camino/sprint for coolest car/truck and mullet style which is making a comeback, I think third gen f bodys have already bottomed out.

Corvair pickup is the coolest car/truck ever made hands down haha! Yes cooler than those typ 2 vw pickups!

Baja is like 10th coolest behind those vw caddys and that dodge little ram, jeep pickup, chevy luv 4x4 with Isuzu diesel...yeah

I can dig a yellow Baja with surfboard and pit bull if I lived near the beach.

The brat does have the lovely dual range, no awd can touch 4hi, not even bmws best 325ix. 

Has anyone ever driven the 86-88 audi/vw with center diff lock?

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by sparkyboy