2009 2.5i vs 3.0 JDM motor. Which should cost more?

[middleclassic]

I just got off the phone with JDM west coast here in So Cal and was told by the guy the 2.5i is a much rarer engine and therefore commands a premium when buying such a JDM motor. 

As an example, they have a 3.0 motor same year for my car (but I’m sure would not work without some probably major modifications) but nonetheless that engine with the same amount of miles as the 2.5i they have is going for $1200. Whereas the 2.5i they want $1750 for. 

That just seems bass akwards to me that the larger engine would be cheaper. Anybody here know better than me? Is this guy blowing smoke my way or being perfectly honest?

Edited April 4, 2019 by middleclassic

[FerGloyale]

The 2.5 engine is not rare.  Many more 2.5 equipped cars were made and sold than 3.0 or 3.6 cars.  The 2.5 came in every model, Legacy, Forester, Impreza, and Outback.  3.0 and 3.6 only came in high end Outbacks.   So there is a much higher demand for replacements for those many more cars.  Especially since they are LESS reliable than the 3.0 and 3.6

 

 The EJ25, is temperamental at best.  Lots of Head gasket problems.  Some cars seem OK, but still many many failures by 150k miles in ALL years.  I think some of Subarus head milling machines had some slop in the mill head.  Causing tool deflection and a "low" in the far lower corner of the head as the tool passes through.  Plus they have a T-belt needing service and if not it breaks and mostly wrecks the engine.  So again more need for replacement.

Not much market for the 3.0/3.6 as there were not that many sold by comparison.  And they are such a good engine they have far fewer failures so much less demand for them on the market.  Fully parallel cooling system and timing chain make them very reliable to 250K+ miles.  

Also, by 2009 the USDM sixes were all 3.6 liter.  Maybe the JDM stayed with 3.0.  Either that or they are quoting price on pre 2006 3.0 engines.  

 

[idosubaru]

5 hours ago, middleclassic said:

I just got off the phone with JDM west coast here in So Cal and was told by the guy the 2.5i is a much rarer engine and therefore commands a premium when buying such a JDM motor. 

As an example, they have a 3.0 motor same year for my car (but I’m sure would not work without some probably major modifications) but nonetheless that engine with the same amount of miles as the 2.5i they have is going for $1200. Whereas the 2.5i they want $1750 for. 

That just seems bass akwards to me that the larger engine would be cheaper. Anybody here know better than me? Is this guy blowing smoke my way or being perfectly honest?

Market demand is the determinant price driver.  That can sometimes be engine size.  Here, age reflects higher in the JDM sector than engine size for the engines/vehicles you’re referencing  

The two 3.0 variants (01-04 and 05+) are older engines on average than the 2.5i and have come down in price significantly in recent years. The 2.5is are applicable to newer vehicles and have higher demand  

It is no surprise to see JDM engine prices drop over time due to market constraints. 

You can also compare prices on eBay and other JDM sites. 

[idosubaru]

And like Gloyale said the 2.5s have a lot of issues so JDM swap prices  can reflect headgasket  (or more) costs.  JDM swaps look really attractive for the time, parts, and turn around savings. 

[el_freddo]

I disagree about the service of head gaskets etc after the EJ25D. Once the leaky factory gaskets are swapped out for the replacement items it’s happy days. 

Idosubaru hit the nail on the head: sully and demand. There’s probably little demand for the JDM EJ25 since there are enough locally AND many workshops work on this engine easily with timing belt and head gasket maintenance items. 

Speak with anyone who is considering a head gasket job on a H6 and they’ll tell you it’s cheaper to get a replacement engine. Yes it has a timing chain, but this isn’t invincible either - and while the engine is out you might as well go the whole hog and replace the timing chain plus guides/tensioner etc while you’re in there. Then there’s the 80 something timing cover bolts (from memory) that I’ve heard are a PITA to remove. Replace them!

End of the day, EJ25 = easy platform to work on; H6 platform not so easy to work on. 

The H6 will bolt straight in place of your EJ25 - BUT: you’ll have to run aftermarket engine management and tune it if you’re not going to run the factory wiring. Either way, both options there are big jobs. I’d only do it as a DIY as I know I can do it. Otherwise, buy a H6 equipped vehicle and go from there!

Cheers 

Bennie

[FerGloyale]

9 hours ago, el_freddo said:

I disagree about the service of head gaskets etc after the EJ25D. Once the leaky factory gaskets are swapped out for the replacement items it’s happy days. 

Idosubaru hit the nail on the head: sully and demand. There’s probably little demand for the JDM EJ25 since there are enough locally AND many workshops work on this engine easily with timing belt and head gasket maintenance items. 

Bennie

I work on subarus all day, every day.   Every 2.5 that hasn't had very recent headgaskets has at least some oil seeping at the corners of the heads.  ALL of them.

EJ25 engines of all years can have full Head gasket failure.  Not every engine, but a significant amount of all years.

  

The reason the OP is seeing higher prices for the more common, smaller 2.5 is that there is a much higher demand for replacements for the 2.5.  Along with HG issues,  timing belt breakage takes out a good amount of EJ25 also.  That doesn't really happen with the timing chain driven EZ30.

 The 3.0 doesn't have as many failures.  And there were only about one made for every twenty EJ25.  

There just is a much smaller group of people out there looking for replacements for the 3.0.  

 

[Numbchux]

My understanding, is that there is no JDM SOHC EJ25 (or at least, they're very rare).

There is a 2.0l engine that is VERY similar, and can be swapped in place, certainly for the non-VVT variant. We bought 10 or so JDM engines a year at the Subaru dealership I worked at, non-VVT EJ201s and first-gen EZ30Ds were both pretty cheap.

 

There definitely is a high demand for EJ253s in the US. Call a junkyard and tell them you're looking for one, they probably won't even have to log into their computer to know that they'll be hard to find (they're out there, but the supply/demand ratio in the normal used parts channels drives the price up a LOT).

[matt167]

The EJ25 is a VERY rare engine in Japan. Some cars got them, most cars did not. Majority got the 2.0L or the 3.0L.

 

[el_freddo]

3 hours ago, FerGloyale said:

I work on subarus all day, every day.   Every 2.5 that hasn't had very recent headgaskets has at least some oil seeping at the corners of the heads.  ALL of them.

Even if the heads have had a shave as part of the HG service?

3 hours ago, FerGloyale said:

The reason the OP is seeing higher prices for the more common, smaller 2.5 is that there is a much higher demand for replacements for the 2.5.  Along with HG issues,  timing belt breakage takes out a good amount of EJ25 also.  That doesn't really happen with the timing chain driven EZ30.

Sounds like poor maintenance schedules or poor build quality of the engine. 

While I don’t work on Subaru engines for a living I do know my way around them and what to look out for etc. Over here I just don’t hear about these failures, particularly in the epic numbers you’re making it out to be. 

Going back to build quality, are your Subaru’s engines built in the US or Japan and shipped over? 

And yes, I’m aware that the EJ25 can “fully blow” a head gasket - just like any other engine can, not one engine is immune to this!

We have the EJ20, EJ22 (up to ‘99) EJ25 and the H6s. Early on we got the EJ18 and a very few EJ16s.

In the publicly accessible parts yards you’ll be hard pressed to find a H6 in there. EJ20/22/25s are readily available. 

Cheers 

Bennie

Edited April 5, 2019 by el_freddo