Basket_case Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I'm not intending to start a debate if Ultra Grey is better than product X, but it may be just as controversial. Anyway, here goes. I've seen a number of Youtube videos of people using Ultra Grey, but nobody seems to be following the instructions. One of the guys is a Subaru mechanic down in AZ. They all just goop and immediately tighten all the way. The instructions say to finger tighten until the goop begins to squeeze out, then wait an hour and tighten 1/4 to 1/2 turn. I see at least two problems: "Finger tight" can be difficult to gauge depending on bolt size, how clean the threads are, access to the bolt, etc. There's no regard for final torque I don't intend to expose the sealant to any oil, coolant, etc. for at least 24 hours, so that part of the instructions is not an issue. I'm probably overthinking this, but I'm just curious what others do and how it's turned out. I tend to follow instructions to a fault, but the Ultra Grey instructions seem a bit fuzzy. If you have used Ultra Grey, did you follow the instructions with respect to finger tighten/wait an hour? What were the results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 That's nuts. In a shop environment we have no time for such foolishness. The bolts get tightened, the fluids get filled, and the key gets turned. As quickly as can be accomplished. We have a near zero return rate with regards to leaks from RTV sealed components. Ultra Grey is alright. Though it pales in comparison to 1217H or 1217B. GD 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvu Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Ultra grey works best with flat surfaces. Full torque if both mating surfaces are machined. Case halves, oil pump to block, cam carriers, etc... The finger tight, allow set time, then full tight is for imperfect surfaces like stamped oil pans and covers. I don't do it, just torque it down and let it set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basket_case Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 Thanks. I hear you both. The reason I ask is that the one time I followed the instructions, I experienced a leak. It wasn't bad, but I don't like leaks. It was a different product (Ultra Black), but the instructions were the same. Or, I should say that the instructions on the tube were the same. The online instructions are different. Which leads to another pet peeve: conflicting information. I won't go down that bunny trail... I'd rather have rubber gaskets for things like oil pans. All I can find is cork. I've never had problems with rubber gaskets and it eliminates the worry of excess goop ending up where it shouldn't. I'm also a fan of Hylomar for certain applications where only paper gaskets are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) EJ engines do NOT use gaskets for the oil pan. And neither cork nor rubber is better than RTV. Those are both terrible sealing materials. Silicone and Viton are better but RTV is the best solution by far. Where exactly are you afraid the sealant will end up? GD Edited May 3, 2019 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 12 hours ago, Basket_case said: and it eliminates the worry of excess goop ending up where it shouldn't. If this is the case you’re applying too much “goop”! Less is more in most applications of RTV ^ especially in high torque applications such as engine and gearbox cases! Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 The Right Stuff brand is the best ever. Cures like rubber. Sticks very well. Ready to use immediately. Can be had in convenient caulk gun tubes or even easier on the wrist is the Squeeze Cheese can. Like Freddo said, less is more. An 1/8th inch bead is plenty. For reference 1/8th in is barely thicker than a dime. If it's a scenario where the mating surfaces are totally flat with zero gap even less sealant is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvu Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Basket_case said: I'd rather have rubber gaskets for things like oil pans. Maybe you had a bent pan. Subaru oil pans are fairly soft. You can get the lip surface flat again by placing on concrete face down and tapping around it with a scrap piece of wood and hammer. Most times it's the holes on the pan that gets dimpled, look closely at them, flatten those out and it should seal with minimal rtv again. Tighten to full specs, overtightening will just dimple them again. If the engine is out and on a stand it's even easier. Flip it upside-down, place pan on it, and tap the lip flat again. The pan is that soft. Similar idea in this video, I use scrap wood instead of a metal chisel. Edited May 3, 2019 by nvu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 1 hour ago, nvu said: You can get the lip surface flat again by placing on concrete face down and tapping around it with a scrap piece of wood and hammer. be very careful doing this with an EJ oil pan. The tube for the PCV vent return is attached in the rear corner of the pan, and it protrudes above the lip of the pan. If you simply flip the pan over and start hammering, you will drive this tube down to where it will not contact the port on the block. This can cause excessive oil vapor suction into the PCV. Again, "the Right Stuff" brand is the best RTV. I use it for everything. Even EA oil pans instead of the cork gasket. It also makes wonderful removable thread locker for Cam and Crank bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvu Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 forgot about that one, good catch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I beg to differ. 1217B is the best stuff ever. I love the pink concrete. Most of you will never experience the joy since it's $90 for a tube of it from Subaru. GD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basket_case Posted May 4, 2019 Author Share Posted May 4, 2019 OK, GD, you got me. I used the term "rubber" generically, which would include the synthetics you mentioned, which are no doubt good stuff. Perhaps, I should have used the term "elastomer". Anyway, in my industry, we don't allow form-in-place gaskets. Everything is pre-formed packing. We're a bit fussy about details because we've all been burned at one time or another and that forever changes my outlook on other aspects of life. I can't even go ride my dirt bike without thinking I'm a single failure away from a long walk back to the truck. And I can think of more than one single failure that will do that. Ugh. Overthinking? Guilty as charged. In some ways, life was easier before I became aware of such things. But, I digress... As far as where would any excess goop go, I can imagine it ending up in all kinds of wrong places. The half moon plugs on my heads had gobs of goop on the inside. As far as I know, this was done at the factory. The previous owner, while no longer a self-wrencher, knows about car repair/maintenance and said no one had been inside the engine. Thanks, folks. The oil pan is on and I'm moving on to checking valve clearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) For oil pan, trans pan, I use three bond 1217H in a caulk gun tube, which is fairly affordable on Amazon. I find it easier to use than ultra grey in the toothpaste tube. Apply and immediately follow the recommended bolt pattern. Make several passes around until all are torqued to final value. Edited May 4, 2019 by 89Ru 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 I had to replace the oil pan on my H6. The oil pan is a little upside-down 'beanie' that just forms the bottom of the fairly deep pan, so not only is the joint under oil, it's under a few inches of oil, maybe 3 or 4. I used ultra-gray and maybe I could have done it using the faster process, but I followed the instructions on the tube and no problems followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Toyota black FIPG is the best stuff ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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