Splitting the Case

[steve56]

Have my ej25 engine on the work bench. Don 't have anyone to hold the engine while I remove the block bolts. Is it safe to use an impact on the 12 point 12 mm block bolts, or would that be asking for trouble(stripped bolt head)

[ocei77]

Would suggest hand tools, though an impact shoukl work without issue. I'd break it by hand then use the impact.

Don't need a 2nd person. 

Don't forget that little 10mm on the bottom main seal side of case.

 

O.

[el_freddo]

You can’t strap the block to the bench to do the work? 

Personally I’d avoid using the impact wrench. 

Some of those bolts in the coolant galleries can be really difficult, I wouldn’t be introducing multiple shocks to those bolts or threads. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[carfreak85]

I hope you don't plan to slap this back together.  EJ engines don't really like to have the case split unless you plan to have a qualified machine shop line bore the mains.  The main bearing journals get pounded out of round over time and the only way to fix it is a proper line bore.

[steve56]

8 hours ago, ocei77 said:

Would suggest hand tools, though an impact shoukl work without issue. I'd break it by hand then use the impact.

Don't need a 2nd person. 

Don't forget that little 10mm on the bottom main seal side of case.

 

O.

When I turn out the block bolts the whole engine turns on the workbench. Don't see how I can split the case without someone holding the engine down.

[nvu]

you've already removed the oil pan and pickup tube? it should lie flat, normal upright position on the table.  if there's not enough leverage, put it on a carpet floor and step on it as you unbolt.

[GeneralDisorder]

7 hours ago, steve56 said:

When I turn out the block bolts the whole engine turns on the workbench. Don't see how I can split the case without someone holding the engine down.

If you can't figure out how to fixture the case such that you can remove the case half bolts I conclude you have no business doing so and there is nothing in there you can successfully repair. Lay down the tools and step away from the precision engineering. 

GD

[steve56]

Don't be like that Gary.

[GeneralDisorder]

Name's not Gary. 

Trust me there's nothing serviceable in there. Just the tools required to measure, not even considering the experience both using them and properly assembling Subaru short blocks, are more expensive than dropping it off at a competent machinist or reputable Subaru engine builder. 

GD

[FerGloyale]

On 5/29/2019 at 9:05 AM, carfreak85 said:

I hope you don't plan to slap this back together.  EJ engines don't really like to have the case split unless you plan to have a qualified machine shop line bore the mains.  The main bearing journals get pounded out of round over time and the only way to fix it is a proper line bore.

 

I've never needed to line bore the EJ case.  Now, I've on;y done rebuilds on NA engines.  They have all measured out within spec.

I've done about 2 dozen full rebuilds of EJ22 and EJ25s.

All of them are still running great.

The one in my personal forester, has 60K plus miles on it now and still runs perfect.

23 hours ago, steve56 said:

When I turn out the block bolts the whole engine turns on the workbench. Don't see how I can split the case without someone holding the engine down.

 

First I will ask, Do you have the pistons removed?  That's the first step.

Second, why don't you have the enigne on an engine stand.  They are like $50 at harbor frieght.  Go get one.

DO NOT use impact on the case bolts.  Impact socket have thick walls, and fit too tighly against the outside of the cylinder barrels.  Then when the extension flexes under torque, it can crack or  break the upper edge of the barrel.

Strap or bolt the damn thing down, and use quality 12 point, 3/8th drive socket on a breaker bar.

If you don't have the pistons out.......get them out now.  The case will not come apart with them in, and it's wonky once the case is split and flopping in half.  

14 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

Name's not Gary. 

Trust me there's nothing serviceable in there. Just the tools required to measure, not even considering the experience both using them and properly assembling Subaru short blocks, are more expensive than dropping it off at a competent machinist or reputable Subaru engine builder. 

GD

 

He can save a little money by disassmbly him self, then dropping of the block, crank, and rods at the machine shop to be measured, polished, and bored to round, respectively.

 

then again, it is only about $2000 for a BRAND NEW subaru shortblock........that's really the best way to go.

[steve56]

I'm either going with the jdm short block I've done several times, or using the crank, rods and block from this engine.

[GeneralDisorder]

I have measured MANY main lines, and short of a brand new factory case, they are virtually always out of spec. I tore down a 24k mile 2014 WRX block and the main line was way out of spec..... and when I say out of spec I mean *I* will not assemble them with the specs I measured. I will not assemble the case if I can't get all the mains between 0.0010" and 0.00125". 

My personal opinion, and probably several of you will disagree, is that Subaru engine blocks are essentially disposable and really shouldn't be rebuilt. According to the manual if the main line is out of spec it's scrap. There's not even a Subaru approved machining solution to this situation. We have a work around for this but you can only do it once, maybe twice before the oil pump doesn't bolt on anymore. 

Then you have the dowel pin situation. Once the block has been assembled and disassembled half a dozen times for inspection, machine work, etc, the dowel pin mating holes in the block get loose enough to allow misalignment of sometimes as much as 0.0005".... now what happens to a main bearing oil clearance that was at 0.0010" (that's 0.0005" on either side of the crank) when the block halves are misaligned during assembly by 0.0005"? Think about it. Mull it over for a second. How do you assure the case halves are aligned when there's a crank in the way of doing any measurement? There's ways.... they are trade secrets as far as I'm concerned. 

GD

[FerGloyale]

1 hour ago, GeneralDisorder said:

I have measured MANY main lines, and short of a brand new factory case, they are virtually always out of spec. I tore down a 24k mile 2014 WRX block and the main line was way out of spec..... and when I say out of spec I mean *I* will not assemble them with the specs I measured. I will not assemble the case if I can't get all the mains between 0.0010" and 0.00125". 

My personal opinion, and probably several of you will disagree, is that Subaru engine blocks are essentially disposable and really shouldn't be rebuilt. According to the manual if the main line is out of spec it's scrap. There's not even a Subaru approved machining solution to this situation. We have a work around for this but you can only do it once, maybe twice before the oil pump doesn't bolt on anymore. 

Then you have the dowel pin situation. Once the block has been assembled and disassembled half a dozen times for inspection, machine work, etc, the dowel pin mating holes in the block get loose enough to allow misalignment of sometimes as much as 0.0005".... now what happens to a main bearing oil clearance that was at 0.0010" (that's 0.0005" on either side of the crank) when the block halves are misaligned during assembly by 0.0005"? Think about it. Mull it over for a second. How do you assure the case halves are aligned when there's a crank in the way of doing any measurement? There's ways.... they are trade secrets as far as I'm concerned. 

GD

I agree that cases should only be serviced once.

 

Like I said, I have only done N/A engines.  Mostly 2.2s  A couple EJ18s and 5 or 6 SOHC and DOHC 2.5s of different years.

All were within spec, some were in by a red hair, bit still in spec.  The few I've seen with bad failure,  that were out of spec, (a few DOHC 2.5) I sourced for customers replacement used engine and do HG's and install.  those were cases of totally spun main bearing.  destroyed block.  toss it like yesterdays salad.

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by FerGloyale

[carfreak85]

This is an interesting discussion on the topic of Subaru engine block machining.  Pertains to EJs, but even us old schoolers could learn a thing or two about the best practices.

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2896766

[GeneralDisorder]

The older, lower power engines I don't believe have enough power to oval the main lines. But these engines are so cheap in good used condition that rebuilding them isn't even close to economically viable. 2.5's and especially the turbo models develop enough cylinder pressure to distort the crank and over time push the aluminum of the case halves around. Remember cast aluminium has the density and machining properties of Oak. Literally the machining feeds and speed are virtually identical for the two materials. How many times do you want to rebuild an engine made from a material that (for the purposes of strength considerations) is effective indistinguishable from dead tree carcass?

Seriously rebuilding these engine blocks is a $hit show and you are ALMOST ALWAYS better served in both time and money by buying a new set of case halves from Subaru ($950), and a new crankshaft ($275). 

And don't get me started on the non-pin located connecting rods used in the NA's. Those things are awful about assembly repeatability. 

GD

Edited May 31, 2019 by GeneralDisorder

[1 Lucky Texan]

just curious but, does Subaru still sell 2.2l short blocks?

[GeneralDisorder]

They still have 25D's laying around last I checked. So maybe. I would have to ask. They certainly may have the 99-01 blocks. I know there are no 22T's anymore. 

GD

[1 Lucky Texan]

folks love those engines....just wondering thanx