'92 Loyale CEL codes 11 & 13 (replaced the sensor, but still getting the error)

[DrieStone]

I've searched through the forums and haven't found a definitive list of "what could this be". I had an 11,13, and 34 (crank angle & EGR). I swapped the actuator for the EGR valve which fixed the code 34, and swapped the crank angle sensor (what I assume is an optical sensor at the bottom of the distributor), but the car is still throwing the 11 & 13. I hear the relay for the starter click (not the tapping of the actuator trying to engage the starter, but the click and the dash lights dim), but car doesn't crank. Battery is topped off (even hooked up my battery box, just in case).

I connected the green & clear connectors under the dash, turned the car to on, then turned off and disconnected (which I believe resets the ECU).

Now, I've experienced a no-start situation before, but it's infrequent, and after getting these errors I thought maybe the crank angle sensor was on its way out and that was the cause of the issue. 

At this point, I'm at a loss of what to do next. What else should I be checking?

Edited June 7, 2019 by DrieStone

[DaveT]

There is no relay in a stock 92.

It is a common failure for a connection in the circuit that applies power from the start position of the key switch, through the transmission safety lockout to the back of the starter to become high enough resistance to make a click from the starter, but not enough power for the solenoid to pull in far enough to close the contacts that apply power to the starting motor. 

There are a bunch of threads about "the relay mod" on this forum.

You can verify that the cause is this by using a medium size piece of wire from the little terminal on the starter solenoid to the + battery terminal.   If it cranks, it's this common problem.

The other click no crank is caused when one of the contacts in the solenoid wears away enough so that it no longer makes reliable contact when closed.

[DrieStone]

Dave, I swear you've been my savior in the past (and practically next door), so thanks! I've verified that the car does turn over (and run) if I short the starter to the battery. I assume I can just put a relay in-line since the resistance of the wire probably isn't high enough to prevent the relay from working.

[DrieStone]

And, I can (most likely) confirm that all is right. I wired a relay and she starts up easily, I even had all the parts I needed laying around, so that's a bonus.

[DaveT]

I spent a fair amount of time trying to find the high resistance problem the first time I ran into it...   carried around a cable with a pushbutton so I could start the car if the intermittent got so bad I could be stranded, which I gradually had to use more and more often.  Then gave up, and did the relay mod, as found on here.   Never had a the problem again.  It's just one of my standard minor upgrades if I get a new body now.

[FerGloyale]

Glad you got the starting problem figured out.

codes 11 and 13 are "ghost codes" that occur when the ECU sees key on and then back off, without ever spinning the motor.

[DrieStone]

On 6/9/2019 at 12:25 PM, FerGloyale said:

Glad you got the starting problem figured out.

codes 11 and 13 are "ghost codes" that occur when the ECU sees key on and then back off, without ever spinning the motor.

I wish I had known that! I guess I replaced the crank angle sensor for nothing... but it's good info for the future.

[Gramr]

I had a similar problem in a 91 loyale had the signs of dead battery or screwed stsrter click click click. After a charge then later a starter inspection a head scratch l installed a button turn key on push button. Worked great no problems. After some investigation l think my start in gear switch (auto) clutch switch was the culprit. A quick way to see if its a electrical gremlin is go to relay on starter and give it 12v. If it cranks you have gremlins.