Performance coil pack for 1.8

[Zip Tie]

Does anyone make performance coil packs for the 1.8? I have a 1.8 mpfi in my 91' 4wd loyale wagon out of a 93' Impreza and was wondering if there was anything out there besides stock. I've done some poking around on this site and other one's and haven't found anything about this.

[GeneralDisorder]

You can make any waste spark 3 wire, 4 cylinder coil pack work. 

But the question is why? What are you trying to accomplish? The stock ignition system is capable of igniting the air fuel charge with 99.99999% reliability. Ignition either occurs or does not occur. So I question what you need this for. If you have some form of supercharging and are blowing out your spark under boost and have already reduced your plug gap beyond reasonable levels then you might want to look into capacitive discharge ignition boxes. 

GD

[wtdash]

I agree w/GD, but if you 'insist' there is the Neon / Mopar coil pack that is swappable..also MSD. Links all over the subie forums.

 

That is, as long as you're referring to something like this:

 

[Zip Tie]

Yeah, wow, guess this is a sore subject. This is my first Subaru (grew up working on Toyota's trucks, which do benefit from a hotter spark) so I have some simple questions. Didn't realize that subaru had it all figured out. Sorry, I'll think twice about asking them on here next time.

[GeneralDisorder]

I don't see there being a significant difference on a Toyota. All your vast experience aside, OEM's don't pass government mandated emissions testing with engines that misfire. You may have (probably did) experienced an idle improvement by installing new performance ignition parts where old or poor quality aftermarket parts weren't entirely up to the job. 

Also I might have more experience than you. Toyota included. 

Username checks out.

GD

Edited June 11, 2019 by GeneralDisorder

[Zip Tie]

Well General"mental"Disorder I never said I was a master mechanic or knew more than you. So, if you're feeling that attacked buy my question you can go stay with one of your girlfriend's or at your mom's place until you calm down.

[3Pin]

Easy Zip tie.  Most of these guys will offer free advice  and it is usually spot on.  Those that are asking for advice can take it or leave it, but don't shoot the advice giver.  People won't help you in the future with that kind of attitude.  

[carfreak85]

GD is neither soft, nor cuddly.  Draw his ire at your own peril, but he does know his stuff.  That said, he may have been having a bad day...

Edited June 11, 2019 by carfreak85

[Zip Tie]

I thought it was a simple question that didn't deserve to be belittled. I'm sorry if I upset anyone. Saying that "the coil already does a perfectly fine job and changing it would do nothing" would have been the end of the thread, and would have answered my question. Instead I was berated. There are other forums, I guess I'll give them a try.

[1 Lucky Texan]

well, you might avoid NASIOC......

[3Pin]

Zip, this is a free world.  Go where you want, but wouldn't it be interesting to actually have a conversation about why you want to put the coil in in the first place?  What if adding the coil doesn't do jack?  Or what if the coil had an interesting positive result?  Either way, in this polarized world where it is just so easy disagree about politics, to flip people off in the car or tell someone off in the internet, we forget how to respect each other or talk to each other.  Maybe if you were across the bar and talking about this with GD, it would turn out different?

my 2 cents

[GeneralDisorder]

All this garbage and back n forth and the guy never answered my simple question. Why? 

What problem are you trying to solve?

I have no time for games. I'm here to help people solve problems. It's my only real function here. It's not as if I need to ask many questions in this town. 

So what's the GD problem you are attempting to solve with swaptronics?

GD

Edited June 12, 2019 by GeneralDisorder

[FerGloyale]

The same stock coil type was used on 2.2 and 2.5 engines also.  So I don't think there is any reason to think it's NOT working just fine igniting 20~40% less cylinder volumes worth of fuel in your engine.  If it needs replaced (they can fail, seen it twice in like 1000 cars), replace it with a good, OE japanese original either new or used.  Used is fine they fail so seldom.

People like to bolt on goodies, and then feel like it's been a "performance" upgrade that they've accomplished.

Most of these types of "upgrades" are worth little or even worse than nothing.

"Cold air" intakes, "hi-Flow air filters"  and "Performance" coils are among the 3 worst ideas to do to a car in general, and definitely to subaru.  

The "stock" setup already provides, cold, well filtered, water separated air and a nice hot, japanese made, Transistor driven coil pack provides the spark reliably.

There is nothing to be gained other than spending money on "feels".   Generic coil won't perform better and won't last as long...they never do.  People used to want to put MSD yellows and silvers into EA cars and they crapped after a few years, while the stock hitachi's in the 80's cars mostly all still work great 30+ years.  And don't even get me started on "hi flow" filters.....might as well throw a handful of dirt right down the throttle body.

None of that stuff is necessary for a non-biuilt engine.  If you've put high lift/duration cams, ported the heads, added forced induction, and addded larger injectors AND have the engine management to support all that, you might maybe see some gain from a true coil upgrade and opening up the intake and filtration.  Even then, that's at the expense of long term wear on the engine.  That stuff is for racing where engines get torn down and serviced or replaced regularly.

Hope that sounds pragmatic, not personal.

That's a damn good Loyale you got.  

[1 Lucky Texan]

reducing mass frees-up a pony or 2 for acceleration. lighter rims, maybe a lightweight crank pulley, if you are always near home and help is easy to get - leave the spare and jack at home. Don't haul around any excess gear. If you literally never have passengers, take the seats out.

you can make the car more fun to throw around the corners, cops rarely care how fast you take a legal turn. stiffer springs, fresh struts, maybe stiffer rear sway bar and stickier tires, good brakes, etc.

9-11 pounds weight = about 1hp, 4 pounds rotating mass = about 1hp.

Edited June 12, 2019 by 1 Lucky Texan

[carfreak85]

30 minutes ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

reducing mass frees-up a pony or 2 for acceleration... 9-11 pounds weight = about 1hp, 4 pounds rotating mass = about 1hp.

I'd have to go look at my notes from my old vehicle dynamics classes, but I think it's a little more complicated than that, you have to also consider sprung vs. unsprung weight, etc.

59 minutes ago, FerGloyale said:

People used to want to put MSD yellows and silvers into EA cars and they crapped after a few years, while the stock hitachi's in the 80's cars mostly all still work great 30+ years.

You mean Accel Yellow coils (And for the record, there is a pretty good history of those failing in sort order in this community).  I installed a USED MSD Blaster 2 coil on my EA81T wagon back in 2004.  Same car, same coil in 2019, so I'm about half way to proving you wrong on the aftermarket coil longevity!

[1 Lucky Texan]

yeah, that's why I said 'about' - it has to do with mass ratios plus, typical 'one-driven-axle' cars lose 'about' 13% (IIRC) thru frictional losses but I have read AWD is about 20%...as you said, complicated. his car may be closer to 15-20:1, some higher power cars may be closer to that 9:1 ....

 

I guess someone could measure their accel before a mod like lighter rims, then after - but the numbers would only be good for identical models.....

or, take an accel measurement now, then put a coupla 50lb bags of quikcrete in the car, make some new runs and compare.

and of course, doens't really 'add' hp, just reduces a 'parasitic' loss of hp.

 

maybe there's a site where values can be plugged in?

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by 1 Lucky Texan

[FerGloyale]

15 minutes ago, carfreak85 said:

I'd have to go look at my notes from my old vehicle dynamics classes, but I think it's a little more complicated than that, you have to also consider sprung vs. unsprung weight, etc.

You mean Accel Yellow coils (And for the record, there is a pretty good history of those failing in sort order in this community).  I installed a USED MSD Blaster 2 coil on my EA81T wagon back in 2004.  Same car, same coil in 2019, so I'm about half way to proving you wrong on the aftermarket coil longevity!

 

Your right. I meant ACCEL

MSD has a pretty solid track record.  Although on an NA EJ18, it would not really do much if anything.

[Zip Tie]

1 hour ago, FerGloyale said:

The same stock coil type was used on 2.2 and 2.5 engines also.  So I don't think there is any reason to think it's NOT working just fine igniting 20~40% less cylinder volumes worth of fuel in your engine.  If it needs replaced (they can fail, seen it twice in like 1000 cars), replace it with a good, OE japanese original either new or used.  Used is fine they fail so seldom.

People like to bolt on goodies, and then feel like it's been a "performance" upgrade that they've accomplished.

Most of these types of "upgrades" are worth little or even worse than nothing.

"Cold air" intakes, "hi-Flow air filters"  and "Performance" coils are among the 3 worst ideas to do to a car in general, and definitely to subaru.  

The "stock" setup already provides, cold, well filtered, water separated air and a nice hot, japanese made, Transistor driven coil pack provides the spark reliably.

There is nothing to be gained other than spending money on "feels".   Generic coil won't perform better and won't last as long...they never do.  People used to want to put MSD yellows and silvers into EA cars and they crapped after a few years, while the stock hitachi's in the 80's cars mostly all still work great 30+ years.  And don't even get me started on "hi flow" filters.....might as well throw a handful of dirt right down the throttle body.

None of that stuff is necessary for a non-biuilt engine.  If you've put high lift/duration cams, ported the heads, added forced induction, and addded larger injectors AND have the engine management to support all that, you might maybe see some gain from a true coil upgrade and opening up the intake and filtration.  Even then, that's at the expense of long term wear on the engine.  That stuff is for racing where engines get torn down and serviced or replaced regularly.

Hope that sounds pragmatic, not personal.

That's a damn good Loyale you got.  

FerGloyale thank you for sharing your knowledge and not just shouting about how much you know. I'm not having any problems with the coil, was just wondering if an after market coil was produced and if it had positive effects.

[GeneralDisorder]

1 hour ago, FerGloyale said:

None of that stuff is necessary for a non-biuilt engine.  If you've put high lift/duration cams, ported the heads, added forced induction, and addded larger injectors AND have the engine management to support all that, you might maybe see some gain from a true coil upgrade and opening up the intake and filtration.  Even then, that's at the expense of long term wear on the engine.  That stuff is for racing where engines get torn down and serviced or replaced regularly.

The last car in here I had to do an ignition upgrade on was an EVO and we had to go to a CDI box because the plug gap was intolerably small (0.020") to get us to 500 WHP. We were blowing the spark right off the plug at 35 psi. After the CDI box we got it up to 620 WHP. Now he needs more turbo.....

The factory ignition systems on modern cars are quite good is our point here. If the factory COP ignition could support a full 250 HP over stock I think it's plenty over-engineered for the stock application. 

And waste spark systems are already very high voltage - this is because their secondary circuit is just a coil around the primary with either end connected to a spark plug. So every firing event they are required to fire two plugs. 

GD

Edited June 12, 2019 by GeneralDisorder

[idosubaru]

On 6/11/2019 at 8:38 PM, Zip Tie said:

I thought it was a simple question that didn't deserve to be belittled. I'm sorry if I upset anyone. Saying that "the coil already does a perfectly fine job and changing it would do nothing" would have been the end of the thread, and would have answered my question. Instead I was berated. There are other forums, I guess I'll give them a try.

if you're mechanically interested and not novelty driven, stick around and you'll see this forum is waaaaaay different than others and for it's faults has some massive upside.  yes - if you're the more automotively social type and want to tinker and hard data doesn't matter as much as the parallel play - another forum would be a better fit. this forum is practical to a fault.  it's the most practical and helpful, mechanically literate subaru specific forum by far.  but that also means it doesn't really tolerate typical forum banter and diatribe.

some of the people on here run highly successful Subaru businesses, are enormously well respected and I owe them about 142 lunches for all they've taught me over the years.  i try to respect their time and hope that in some ways we are all making it easy for them to continue to contribute with high demands and in a situation where most of their subaru talk/engagement is making them money but this is not. 

a lot of people are used to other forums and 13 page mundane, mechanically/data/physically illiterate discussions or tossing around 8 bad ideas and hoping one of them is right....that's cool too, most people seem to like that, and any other subaru forum can do that. i would try to identify the 8% of the posters who know what they're talking about - and be careful taking anyone elses advice - check it/google it/etc. this forum isn't like that.  I'm on those forums though recently have been distancing myself, because it gets old seeing responses that aren't helpful or flat out wrong.  it's hard to help the original poster because three other posts are low grade ideas from uncle larry, the 1970's, or they're anecdotal 3 Subaru experience - yet they post and defend their posts without learning/data being the focus.  this forum doesn't tolerate that at all.  which has both bad and good sides to it. 

 

[el_freddo]

On 6/14/2019 at 1:44 AM, idosubaru said:

a lot of people are used to other forums and 13 page mundane, mechanically/data/physically illiterate discussions or tossing around 8 bad ideas and hoping one of them is right....that's cool too, most people seem to like that, and any other subaru forum can do that. i would try to identify the 8% of the posters who know what they're talking about - and be careful taking anyone elses advice - check it/google it/etc. this forum isn't like that.  I'm on those forums though recently have been distancing myself, because it gets old seeing responses that aren't helpful or flat out wrong.  it's hard to help the original poster because three other posts are low grade ideas from uncle larry, the 1970's, or they're anecdotal 3 Subaru experience - yet they post and defend their posts without learning/data being the focus.  this forum doesn't tolerate that at all.  which has both bad and good sides to it. 

Are you hinting at bookface there?? That’s one of the reasons why I’m on it anymore.

Cheers 

Bennie