GoudaWagon Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Hey ya'll hope to get some suggestions on my no spark no fuel condition on my 94 loyale with an ea82 SPFI, 301,xxx miles. Rebuilt engine 3k miles ago. I put it up in the air about a week ago to change out CV axles (I installed some aftermarket POS's and immediately regretted that decision) and also pulled off the valve covers to re-tighten the head bolts after the rebuild. Ever since then, I have this no spark no fuel condition. checked fuses, checked other connections, checked timing, looked at as much of the electrical wiring as i could as well as continuty testing, swapped out distributor with a known good one aaannnd.... nothing. I know I'm missing other info I should be exuding but its rather late and am a bit sleepy. Please help! I'm borrowing my dads car for now (which is a sweet little forrester) but I miss my little wagon!! and i cant use that car for too much longer I was pointed in the direction of an ECU? Im working on borrowing a working one from friend but im sure theres other things i should try first. I am not extremely versed on the mechanic side of things (I do fiberglass fab) but know my way around a toolbox and have patience and plenty of motivation to follow the suggestions i get from people on here who i assume are much more knowledgeable than I in this area. Thanks again for any help, Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 The coil bracket is also used as a ground. If loose no spark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Wouldn't hurt to check the engine ground wires. Does the fuel pump run for 2 seconds? Try diagnostic mode with the green connectors plugged together, it should cycle on and off with the key in the run position. Check the 2 multi pin engine harness connectors? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 if you pull a plug, is it wet with fuel? have you tried starting fluid? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Dawg Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) If it turns over but no spark at plug I would check the make sure the rotor is not stuck, i.e. screw fell out. If it does not turn over lights, camera nothing I would check the small wire going to starter as well the alternator of all things might be shot or not connected. Those are the 2 things electrical I had a problem with.. Aside from failing to connect the MAF where it would temporarily start but die. Where as Dave suggested ign to on position STOP before starting you should hear towards the back a hmmm.. then a click from under the hood that your fuel pump pressurized when the fuel filter has filled up. Congratulations to 300,000 mile club!! 1993 Loyale 4wd 5spd 311,183mi Edited July 18, 2019 by Len Dawg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Or spray a couple second shot of carb cleaner in the throat. If it runs for a second or 2, you know it has spark and timing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee2 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 9 hours ago, GoudaWagon said: no spark no fuel condition Take one variable at a time. Start with the spark. Do you have lights, horn, and power to other electrical items ? From the plugs work backwards and see where power stops. Check the fusible links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoudaWagon Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 All other electrical components seem to be working. Sprayed starter fluid but nothing, pulled plugs and they're bone dry. I do hear the fuel pump kick on and humm then click though... Although I did try plugging in the green test wires to no avail. No sound of solenoids cycling. No spark at plugs or distributor and checked if the rotor screw had backed out (first thing i checked since its happened to me in the past... Thank you for all your speedy recs! I am going out to check starter connections and engine grounds now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 wow, maybe check ground/power to the ECU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarule Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 About the thinning hair...if you wear a baseball cap all the time that will contribute to hair loss. No oxygen getting to the hair roots. That and heredity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee2 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 15 hours ago, GoudaWagon said: No spark at plugs or distributor Just keep working backwards until you find power.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Sounds like a dead crank angle sensor in the dizzy to me - ECU doesn’t know when to hit spark and doesn’t know when to fire injector. That said, I’m not sure that the SPFI ECU signals the dizzy to fire since it’s still in the mechanical spark mechanism era. Have you checked for codes yet? Cheers Bennie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoudaWagon Posted July 27, 2019 Author Share Posted July 27, 2019 Sorry for the delay gentlemen but I have a lot more info about my issue... I recently had a co-worker come over to check out the Gouda (He was a mechanic for many years and 'on"is much more knowledgeable than I). We started with the no spark problem at the plug and worked backwards, we got back to the coil and noticed both sides are getting power with key ? is this normal? and when we ran the test light from ground side of the battery to one set of coil wires the fuel pump would kick on like i had just turned the key from "acc" to "on". Also, I've been searching the Haynes book but cant seem to find what color the negative v positive wires are on the coil. theres a black and black with white stripe and then blue and green? The fuel pump would prime and click while grounding out the black and black with white stripe side, again , is this suppose to happen and if not, what could be causing that? In any case we went through as much as we could and came to the conclusion that since ive swapped out the disty with a known working one, coil with a brand new one and is in spec with respect to ohm resistance, the next place to trouble shoot would be the ecu. I removed it and cleaned up the connections but no change. I havet seen the led light up at all with the test connectors connected but im not positive im checking the codes correctly. anyone have a write up on how to check codes? Also, i had a good line on a ecu on craigslist up here (I talked to him about just buying the whole parts car, same year same options even same color!) but he has since officially ghosted and i haven't been able to get ahold of him. So im on the lookout for a working ecu to, if anything, check to see if thats the problem couple q's on the ecu; Can it be tested? If i get one out of another loyale, how close in model year, options etc. does it have to be...? How do i test for engine codes? Thanks again yall for all yalls help! Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 The LED on the ECU should be blinking aregardless of test mode connectors. When all is well, it blinks a number of short blinks every few seconds. If it is not, check that the ECU is getting power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 With someone else cranking the engine, check for voltage at the fusible links, both sides, and for voltage at the coil. As for the ECU being bad, I really doubt that. When you did that work on the engine, somehow you caused this no-start problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoudaWagon Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 So i went digging into the ol wagon last night trying to retrace the wires til i found power when i saw that a 15a fuse was blown! it was the ign/fuel slot. I thought i had it in the bag but, swapped it out, cranked it over and.... nothin. Anyways, still have some q's. how do i test for power at the ecu? No light blinking at all still. I seem to have power at the coil and fusible links then those wires go into the body panel by the wheel then into the fuse box? I'm assuming I just unplug the plugin off the ecu that contains the wire that supplies power then hook up a multi meter red side to that specific pin and the black side of the multimeter to a known ground? Apologies for my overly simple question, I want to be positive i'm doing all this correctly and not missing something due to user error Thanks y'all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 hours ago, GoudaWagon said: I'm assuming I just unplug the plugin off the ecu that contains the wire that supplies power then hook up a multi meter red side to that specific pin and the black side of the multimeter to a known ground? Correct. The blown fuse you found - has it blown again? If so I’d start looking for any wiring that’s “aftermarket” that could be creating a short. It could even be the ignition switch shorting out and blowing the fuse. There are many reasons why your engine isn’t running, and that blown fuse is a good place to start interrogating the wiring. I really hope it’s an easy fix. Make sure the fuse you’re using is the correct rating. Anything more and you could be in for trouble. Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoudaWagon Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 It hasn't blown again and i went out with a test light, found the power wire to the ECU and it lit right up. this is with the key off... I'm assuming thats normal since it would be in a sort of stand by mode while the car isnt running And again, I visually inspected all connectiors and wires that I could see but nothing out of the ordinary. The car is impressively unmolested as far as wiring and interior goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 There’s a permanent power wire, then there’s an ignition “ON” wire. You now need to find and check that ignition wire. Some of the SPFI conversion documents could provide you with the ECU pinouts to help find the ignition wire. I can’t remember if the SPFI ECU has one, but the ignition relay could be dead too. Worth looking into anyway. Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoudaWagon Posted August 13, 2019 Author Share Posted August 13, 2019 I got ahold of a diagram from an old service manual and I followed the power pin through the circuit. Not far into it i noticed that one of the resistors had burnt up. Went to the junkyard to hopefully get one out of a similar year/make / model but settled for an '87 sedan. although it did have spfi! which was really the only similarity other than it was a Subaru. If anything I figured i could solder in what i needed from the old one to the new. When I got home i figured "what the hell?" and stuck it under the dash, plugged it in and turned the key... BOOM! fired right up and has ran flawlessly ever since. A few questions though. Is it safe to be running this ecu out of another car so dissimilar from mine? - Do i run the risk of burning anything out or over working any specific components? - Check engine light came on for the first time ever since i've owned the car (I thought the bulb was burnt out) but dont see the led blinking... - Would it be a better idea for me to solder in the resistor that was burnt out on the old one with the good one from the new and just run that? Thanks for all the help gentlemen, its been quite a ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Investigate the check engine light, you may genuinely have a dodgy sensor. If the ECU runs the engine and hasn’t fried, it will continue like this. With the old ECU, find a new replacement resistor and place that in. Then you can swap the ECUs to see if it works. Mans your check engine light should illuminate with the ignition ON, engine OFF. Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 From 87 through 94 only minor changes, so I am not surprised it runs. Should be ok. The LED should always be blinking when the engine is running, regardless of the test connectors. Count the long and short blinks, they represent 2 digit numbers. No codes code is all short blinks. If there is more than 1 code, they are listed sequentially, and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, GoudaWagon said: I got ahold of a diagram from an old service manual and I followed the power pin through the circuit. Not far into it i noticed that one of the resistors had burnt up. Went to the junkyard to hopefully get one out of a similar year/make / model but settled for an '87 sedan. although it did have spfi! which was really the only similarity other than it was a Subaru. If anything I figured i could solder in what i needed from the old one to the new. When I got home i figured "what the hell?" and stuck it under the dash, plugged it in and turned the key... BOOM! fired right up and has ran flawlessly ever since. A few questions though. Is it safe to be running this ecu out of another car so dissimilar from mine? - Do i run the risk of burning anything out or over working any specific components? - Check engine light came on for the first time ever since i've owned the car (I thought the bulb was burnt out) but dont see the led blinking... - Would it be a better idea for me to solder in the resistor that was burnt out on the old one with the good one from the new and just run that? Thanks for all the help gentlemen, its been quite a ride! There are no resistors in the factory wiring. Maybe the Diode that seperates the IG control and the Alt signal voltage? Can you take a picture? Also a note about ECU and Disty. 87 and previus ECU have the signal and refrence disty pin for the disty reversed. So you can't use an 87 ECU or disty with newer stuff *unless you swap 2 pins at the disty.* Not really directly your issue, but just an FYI Edited August 13, 2019 by FerGloyale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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