Some ideas for the future?

[ClassySoob]

Hey guys, I got my 85 FrankinSoob GL with EJ22 swap. I have a few questions about some future build plans. Rather than have a bunch of posts I thought I'd only compile one. So here it goes

A) Has anyone played with the gearing in the stock EA 5speed with the dual range? I really like this transmission, but it doesn't quite have the gearing for today's highway speeds. I want to lengthen the ratios for 4 and 5 to where I can cruise at 80 comfortably. Or is it just best to do the trans swap? 

B)Does anyone know the weight difference between the EJ and EA flywheels? I want to lighten the EA flywheel a little bit to get higher rpm without harming the engine. But also not enough to loose a substantial amount of low end torque. I read a build thread that mentioned using the XT flywheel, but finding one of those in my area might be a little hard.

C) Lifting? I want to do a small suspension lift but preferably don't want to lift the body. What's the max height you can go before the CVs are at to much of an angle to cause damage? I found an old GL at the local UPull that looked to have a 4in suspension lift with a 3in  body lift. But that's a little more than I desire. 

Thanks for reading!!! If you have answers please I would love to hear. Cheers.

[idosubaru]

XT6 has similar weight and hp (145 hp) as an EJ22 swapped EA vehicle. I run 10% larger tires so speedo says 70 when it’s doing 77. They aren’t heavy off-road tires, use 16” aluminum wheels and can end up with better gas mileage as well. Not much difference in my local mountainous commute but I can get 28 mpg in the automatic XT6 when doing a frequent long trip at 65 mph on flat and very rural roads. 

[ClassySoob]

6 hours ago, idosubaru said:

XT6 has similar weight and hp (145 hp) as an EJ22 swapped EA vehicle. I run 10% larger tires so speedo says 70 when it’s doing 77. They aren’t heavy off-road tires, use 16” aluminum wheels and can end up with better gas mileage as well. Not much difference in my local mountainous commute but I can get 28 mpg in the automatic XT6 when doing a frequent long trip at 65 mph on flat and very rural roads. 

What transmission are you running? Does the 16" wheels strain it any?

[el_freddo]

You guys are kind of stuck in America if you like the dual range. 

With those wheels you should be alright to pull that speed. For a period of time it probably won’t be fun. 

You could drop in the RXII AWD dual range box, swap the low range to the good L series version, swap the diff output stubs while you’re there too. 

Fourth ratio can’t be swapped without swapping 3rd as well. One side of the gearing (I can’t remember off the top of my head if it’s the top or bottom set) are cast/“stuck” together. 5th gear is a Lone Ranger and can be swapped independently - and the EJ phase 1 5th ratios are a direct swap.

In the RX box you might find those ratios a bit more user friendly for what you want. These ratios are “wide” as opposed to the NA set that are “close”. The AWD box has the same internals as the EJ internals with the exception to the dual range - which makes single and dual range internals NOT interchangeable. 

I’ve got the RXII AWD box behind my EJ22, 4.111:1 diff ratio (not an easy swap but possible with a machinist!), turning 27 inch diametre tyres, matched speedo. I put in a different 5th ratio that turned out to be too short (same as what you’re running now - 0.87:1 - I wanted 0.78 from memory, the box I think came with 0.73:1 - which I should’ve just tried in the first place.).

So you’ve got some options, but they’re limited if you’re married to the dual range. If dual range doesn’t matter, you’ve got loads of options from the EJ box series. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[ClassySoob]

33 minutes ago, el_freddo said:

You guys are kind of stuck in America if you like the dual range. 

With those wheels you should be alright to pull that speed. For a period of time it probably won’t be fun. 

You could drop in the RXII AWD dual range box, swap the low range to the good L series version, swap the diff output stubs while you’re there too. 

Fourth ratio can’t be swapped without swapping 3rd as well. One side of the gearing (I can’t remember off the top of my head if it’s the top or bottom set) are cast/“stuck” together. 5th gear is a Lone Ranger and can be swapped independently - and the EJ phase 1 5th ratios are a direct swap.

In the RX box you might find those ratios a bit more user friendly for what you want. These ratios are “wide” as opposed to the NA set that are “close”. The AWD box has the same internals as the EJ internals with the exception to the dual range - which makes single and dual range internals NOT interchangeable. 

I’ve got the RXII AWD box behind my EJ22, 4.111:1 diff ratio (not an easy swap but possible with a machinist!), turning 27 inch diametre tyres, matched speedo. I put in a different 5th ratio that turned out to be too short (same as what you’re running now - 0.87:1 - I wanted 0.78 from memory, the box I think came with 0.73:1 - which I should’ve just tried in the first place.).

So you’ve got some options, but they’re limited if you’re married to the dual range. If dual range doesn’t matter, you’ve got loads of options from the EJ box series. 

Cheers 

Bennie

Thanks for the tip, I'd like to try play with the gearing a little first before I decide to trans swap. So you are saying I could take the 5th gear set from the phase 1 EJ and it will fit right in? If I do go with a different trans there is a wrecked Forrester with an AWD manual that would be a good a candidate. What modifications would this swap inquire?

Edited August 3, 2019 by ClassySoob

[FerGloyale]

2 hours ago, ClassySoob said:

Thanks for the tip, I'd like to try play with the gearing a little first before I decide to trans swap. So you are saying I could take the 5th gear set from the phase 1 EJ and it will fit right in? If I do go with a different trans there is a wrecked Forrester with an AWD manual that would be a good a candidate. What modifications would this swap inquire?

EJ 5th gear will not fit on a standard PT dual range.  It would have to be a "fulltime" 4wd difflocking AWD box.

just get taller tires.

 

[el_freddo]

54 minutes ago, FerGloyale said:

EJ 5th gear will not fit on a standard PT dual range.  It would have to be a "fulltime" 4wd difflocking AWD box.

just get taller tires.

 

Correct. 

Trans swap is involved either way you go. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[idosubaru]

12 hours ago, ClassySoob said:

What transmission are you running? Does the 16" wheels strain it any?

Currently an automatic and I've owned like 20 XT6's since 1993 including many FT4WD manuals (XT6's all have the same FT4WD single range box). 

[ClassySoob]

9 hours ago, el_freddo said:

Correct. 

Trans swap is involved either way you go. 

Cheers 

Bennie

Thank you!. What all would a trans swap require? 

[ClassySoob]

I don't want to build it into a severe offroader, I have my ol S10 Blazer for that haha. This car is my daily runner, but sometimes I just get the urge to cruise up the mountains. So I want something that could cruise at highway speeds comfortably, but has no problem in the mountains if I decided to take a detour. 

Edited August 3, 2019 by ClassySoob

[ferp420]

the duel range trans has 2 overdrive gears 4th and 5th i could hit 90 in 4th and still have plenty of rpms left and another gear but then again i am running 30" tires

i wouldent even worry about it your gona drop what maybe 500 rpms at most that 500 rpms wont hurt your engine any as long as your running under 4500 rpms your safe these engines like rpms

i ran my ea82s between 4000 and 5000 rpms almost all the time the ej2.2 seems happyest at 2500 and 3500 the ej2.5d ran around 4000-5000 also at freeway speeds

the flat 4 realy comes to life in the upper rpms 4500-6500

seeing as how you also want a lift just get bigger tires

your gona have a hard time getting more than a 2" of lift from your suspention your stuts dont have that much up traval so you would need new struts then theres the camber issue if you max out your struts or add new bigger ones your not gona be able to aline the rig your camber will be way off thats why the body lifts mounting points are offset so much the ea cvs cant take more than 2" of lift and thats still pushing them to there limits and they still dont last very long so any more than a 2" lift will need a sub frame drop longer struts will be very hard to find the only ones i have herd of that are a direct fit is the vw bettle struts but the story is they bend very easy you could go to ej struts but you would have to change the knuckle and make custom cv axles and then unless you custom fab every part your gona be alot wider in the front then your wheels will have different bolt patterns

also note that a lift kit combined with spring lift will through off your camber also so the lift kit by itself is your best option other wise you end up with bad camber i have a spring lift and a strut top lift the strut top lift was set up fot the 2" spring lift then the springs saged now the camber is out the other way lol so i recomend just getting a good lift kit or find the napkin lift kit info and make your own

the napkin lift is just a hand drawn design doodled on a napkin but the guiness who drew it included all the info needed to build the lift kit the pics have been passed around from tread to thread long before i became a member on here and might be hard to find but it has all the correction info and how to make the parts

good luck

 

 

[el_freddo]

8 hours ago, ClassySoob said:

Thank you!. What all would a trans swap require? 

Depends on what you put in. The EA AWD box will bolt straight in but will need MPFI shafts for the larger diff stub output shafts. 

EJ box will need custom crossmember, tailshaft, possibly gear selector linkages and matching rear diff ratio of swapping ratios. And you’ll need the MPFI drive shaft for the larger diff stub output shaft.

When you say “go up the mountains” - does this mean offroad or on the black top through the twisties? 

Cheers 

Bennie

[ClassySoob]

19 hours ago, el_freddo said:

Depends on what you put in. The EA AWD box will bolt straight in but will need MPFI shafts for the larger diff stub output shafts. 

EJ box will need custom crossmember, tailshaft, possibly gear selector linkages and matching rear diff ratio of swapping ratios. And you’ll need the MPFI drive shaft for the larger diff stub output shaft.

When you say “go up the mountains” - does this mean offroad or on the black top through the twisties? 

Cheers 

Bennie

I mean up the mountain like riding up national Forest trails some which can get steep, but nothing extreme as my custom exhaust kinda shortened my ground clearance. So if the road gets to rough I'm likely to scrape my pipes.

[FerGloyale]

sounds like a 4.11 A EJ trans, (from 90-96 Legacy, Outback or Impreza sport)  would be the best fit for what you want.

You don't need the Dual range if your not serious offroading.

You will need Turbo EA axles (25 spline), custom shortened center driveline, custom shortened shifter (Modify the EAshifter ) and a custom crossmember and center mount cradle.  And EJ flywheel and clutch set.  this will delete the adapter plate and redrilled flywheel.  So you could sell those to make back some $.  

That trans will give you shorter 1st gear, and taller 5th gear.  And could accept the even taller 5th gear set from Forrester turbo.

[ClassySoob]

57 minutes ago, FerGloyale said:

sounds like a 4.11 A EJ trans, (from 90-96 Legacy, Outback or Impreza sport)  would be the best fit for what you want.

You don't need the Dual range if your not serious offroading.

You will need Turbo EA axles (25 spline), custom shortened center driveline, custom shortened shifter (Modify the EAshifter ) and a custom crossmember and center mount cradle.  And EJ flywheel and clutch set.  this will delete the adapter plate and redrilled flywheel.  So you could sell those to make back some $.  

That trans will give you shorter 1st gear, and taller 5th gear.  And could accept the even taller 5th gear set from Forrester turbo.

Awesome!!!!  That would be perfect thank you. What if I were to loose the EA huds and axles and swap in the EJ hubs? How well does that work? I was thinking on finding a wrecked donor and completely swap the drive train. 

[FerGloyale]

1 hour ago, ClassySoob said:

Awesome!!!!  That would be perfect thank you. What if I were to loose the EA huds and axles and swap in the EJ hubs? How well does that work? I was thinking on finding a wrecked donor and completely swap the drive train. 

EJ hubs won't fit EA struts.  EJ axles are too long.  EJ brakes don't have E-brake.  Balljoints wrong size, tierods wrong size.  5 lug rear hubs needed to match.

Just swap to EA turbo axles, and a 4.11 rear diff with male stubs.  

Doing a whole 5lug swap is quite the endeavor.  

[ClassySoob]

2 hours ago, FerGloyale said:

EJ hubs won't fit EA struts.  EJ axles are too long.  EJ brakes don't have E-brake.  Balljoints wrong size, tierods wrong size.  5 lug rear hubs needed to match.

Just swap to EA turbo axles, and a 4.11 rear diff with male stubs.  

Doing a whole 5lug swap is quite the endeavor.  

Good to know. Can I use the diff from the donor? Thanks!!!

[FerGloyale]

If your donor is pre 95 yes,

You want a 90-94 rear diff.  95+ will have the wrong type of axle mating.

[ClassySoob]

40 minutes ago, FerGloyale said:

If your donor is pre 95 yes,

You want a 90-94 rear diff.  95+ will have the wrong type of axle mating.

Okay . My engine is out of a 97, but it should still bolt straight up to a pre 95 trans right?

[el_freddo]

1 hour ago, ClassySoob said:

Okay . My engine is out of a 97, but it should still bolt straight up to a pre 95 trans right?

Yes. Your EJ will bolt to any EJ series gearbox, including the 8 bolt boxes (phase 2 - just use the four bolts that your engine has). 

Cheers 

Bennie