subieroo Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 G'day, here's the struts off my 4x4 wagon, 2" lift was installed in the 90s and was engineered... This spacer doesn't look like it accommodates for camber at all and is probably the cause of my excessive positive camber? Pretty sure this a "redneck lift" block... Thoughts? Also just on eyeballing are those stock EA82 struts? The springs are extremely soft and I'm swapping them for height adjustable factory struts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, subieroo said: G'day, here's the struts off my 4x4 wagon, 2" lift was installed in the 90s and was engineered... This spacer doesn't look like it accommodates for camber at all and is probably the cause of my excessive positive camber? Pretty sure this a "redneck lift" block... Thoughts? Also just on eyeballing are those stock EA82 struts? The springs are extremely soft and I'm swapping them for height adjustable factory struts. Okay this looks like a front strut - wide springs, I think I see a third mount stud poking out the back that's barely visible and a castle nut suggests it came off the front....at first I was thinking it was a rear due to the two obvious studs on the top. Yes, it needs offset for camber. 8 hours ago, subieroo said: and was engineered. "engineered" and they didn't check camber? that's funny! Edited August 26, 2019 by idosubaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subieroo Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 10 hours ago, idosubaru said: Okay this looks like a front strut - wide springs, I think I see a third mount stud poking out the back that's barely visible and a castle nut suggests it came off the front....at first I was thinking it was a rear due to the two obvious studs on the top. Yes, it needs offset for camber. "engineered" and they didn't check camber? that's funny! Yes it is a front strut. And I thought it was dodgy, just dropping the strut down at the exact same angle... Are there still kits being made by members on this board? I'd love to source a set of blocks with proper offset. I personally think the engineering process in Australia is a joke. Don't need to engineer a complete engine swap if within 20% displacement but cannot possibly run 8% OD wheels without paying some monkey to say "she'll be right" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Scott is a long time member here making lift bits for a long time now. Ive bought mine from him. SJR lifts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subieroo Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 2 hours ago, idosubaru said: Scott is a long time member here making lift bits for a long time now. Ive bought mine from him. SJR lifts. Beautiful, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Have you got a side view of the strut block? It could be offset. The scrubbing on the outer edge of the front wheel could be from the nose living on take off, creating a positive camber situation, wheel spin will exacerbate the wear on the outer edges. Tall tyre wall and low pressures will make the tyre roll onto the outer edge of the outer tyre when cornering hard. And if you run an EJ22, that extra power can do all of the above if you’re not AWD. Further, the 20% rule is bogus if you’re changing to an engine not offered in your vehicle from factory. It was based on the old holdens and fords when dropping a larger capacity engine of the same configuration/model designation into the vehicle. So going from EA82 to EJ20 requires engineering - most likely depending on which state you’re in. Nachaluva from Subi Lift Oz will be able to knock you up a set of front lift blocks too, he’s based in Melbourne and may have seen his stuff on Facebook. Let him know that Bennie sent you in his direction as he doesn’t usually do L series stuff - but the front strut block is basically the same. Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subieroo Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 On 8/27/2019 at 6:57 PM, el_freddo said: Have you got a side view of the strut block? It could be offset. The scrubbing on the outer edge of the front wheel could be from the nose living on take off, creating a positive camber situation, wheel spin will exacerbate the wear on the outer edges. Tall tyre wall and low pressures will make the tyre roll onto the outer edge of the outer tyre when cornering hard. And if you run an EJ22, that extra power can do all of the above if you’re not AWD. Further, the 20% rule is bogus if you’re changing to an engine not offered in your vehicle from factory. It was based on the old holdens and fords when dropping a larger capacity engine of the same configuration/model designation into the vehicle. So going from EA82 to EJ20 requires engineering - most likely depending on which state you’re in. Nachaluva from Subi Lift Oz will be able to knock you up a set of front lift blocks too, he’s based in Melbourne and may have seen his stuff on Facebook. Let him know that Bennie sent you in his direction as he doesn’t usually do L series stuff - but the front strut block is basically the same. Cheers Bennie Excellent I'll get in touch with him. Blocks are back on the car, but on closer inspection there did appear to be some sort of offset... Not much though. Two studs offset by about 3mm. I found the original documents for the lift kit. Someone paid $680aud in 1995 for it... It specifies that there are a passenger and driver strut block but does not give any instruction on what direction to orientate the block. This kit also drops the radius rod mounts which is really dumb... Also interesting is on the back of the sheets the original owner has written "Friday $100 bend struts". I have no idea what atrocity was committed here but it doesn't sound good! In regards to the EJ swap that's disappointing. What I read on the RMS sheet only said "same family of engines" but I've been back and forth between contradicting documents so many times I don't know what's ok and what isn't... Very tiring trying to keep everything legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Talk to an engineer regarding EJ conversions. I’ve spoken to one about my future brumby conversion and he’s given me the green light and a price (~$1500). On top of the strut blocks, on the plate you can see from the engine bay, is there an arrow or the letters L, R or E (E possibly one one side of the top plate indicating engine)? These sorts of marks can indicate the orientation of the blocks - if they’ve got the built in camber. Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subieroo Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 2 hours ago, el_freddo said: Talk to an engineer regarding EJ conversions. I’ve spoken to one about my future brumby conversion and he’s given me the green light and a price (~$1500). On top of the strut blocks, on the plate you can see from the engine bay, is there an arrow or the letters L, R or E (E possibly one one side of the top plate indicating engine)? These sorts of marks can indicate the orientation of the blocks - if they’ve got the built in camber. Cheers Bennie Unfortunately only marked "DF" and "PF" for each side. Was the $1500 quoted just in the certificates or does that factor in the cost of your donor parts? $1500 is what I was hoping to get away with on the mechanical aspects, real bummer if it's double the cost for the red tape. Old girl might hang on to the EA a little longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Well DF would be drivers front, PF the passenger’s front. That makes me wonder what company made the lift kit. Scorpion Subaru used to build kits way back when, which would probably fit with the era that your lift kit was fitted. The quote was just his “red tape” stuff. Basically there’s no structural mods, I’m not using an adaptor plate, and factory emissions with the EJ meets everything he needs to see. I’m going to upgrade to rear discs and he’s happy with that too. I was meant to ask about this earlier: 13 hours ago, subieroo said: This kit also drops the radius rod mounts which is really dumb... What do you see as being so dumb about this? You’ve moved the engine crossmember down, this changes the suspension control arm swing points in regards to the radius rod mount. To drop the gearbox/lift the body off the gearbox, you must drop the radius rod mounting plate as this incorporates the gearbox crossmember mount, otherwise the rear end of the gearbox will be pointing upwards which could cause binding with the Uni joints on the tail shaft. Clear as mud? Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subieroo Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, el_freddo said: Well DF would be drivers front, PF the passenger’s front. That makes me wonder what company made the lift kit. Scorpion Subaru used to build kits way back when, which would probably fit with the era that your lift kit was fitted. The quote was just his “red tape” stuff. Basically there’s no structural mods, I’m not using an adaptor plate, and factory emissions with the EJ meets everything he needs to see. I’m going to upgrade to rear discs and he’s happy with that too. I was meant to ask about this earlier: What do you see as being so dumb about this? You’ve moved the engine crossmember down, this changes the suspension control arm swing points in regards to the radius rod mount. To drop the gearbox/lift the body off the gearbox, you must drop the radius rod mounting plate as this incorporates the gearbox crossmember mount, otherwise the rear end of the gearbox will be pointing upwards which could cause binding with the Uni joints on the tail shaft. Clear as mud? Cheers Bennie Dropping the radius rod mounts instead of extending the radius rods creates a huge amount of leverage on the 3 bolts that hold the rod. Under heavy braking or rough off-roading they easily bend and snap. I've had to have welding done as a result, others on this board have too after dropping the mount. It's a recipe for disaster with a 4WD rig, way too much horizontal force acting on 3 wimpy bolts that were never ment to bear the load anyway, the radius rod plate transfered all that directly to the chassis. I'm almost certain the gearbox crossmember can be dropped without moving the radius rod plates, might need some rearranging of bushings but they are not permanently attached to each other I will send more info on the kit when I get home. Edited August 30, 2019 by subieroo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subieroo Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 Here is the lift kit instructions Kit was made by Out of Town 4WD. Yes I put the DF and PF blocks back on the correct sides. That's the only marking on them. Attached photo is from the back of the instructions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Yeah wow that’s different ^^ I understand the leverage on the bolts. I’ve got a three inch lift and have so far been lucky with my captive nuts in this area - I did have to weld one when I removed the lift kit to repair another issue. The real problem here is the short cuts the builders take. One bolt, one block. The three blocks down there should’ve been tied into one block to reduce the chance of that leverage occurring. It’s something I would still like to do to mine, and the same on the rear end with the three bolts on the rear side of the K frame - tie these together then forward to the single bolt out the front of the K frame. That to me is an ideal lift kit build. So I reckon you’re right that your strut block has no camber built into the block, so it’ll be like factory if not worse. Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subieroo Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, el_freddo said: Yeah wow that’s different ^^ I understand the leverage on the bolts. I’ve got a three inch lift and have so far been lucky with my captive nuts in this area - I did have to weld one when I removed the lift kit to repair another issue. The real problem here is the short cuts the builders take. One bolt, one block. The three blocks down there should’ve been tied into one block to reduce the chance of that leverage occurring. It’s something I would still like to do to mine, and the same on the rear end with the three bolts on the rear side of the K frame - tie these together then forward to the single bolt out the front of the K frame. That to me is an ideal lift kit build. So I reckon you’re right that your strut block has no camber built into the block, so it’ll be like factory if not worse. Cheers Bennie Thanks Benny. I think getting something like that made out of one piece might be a good idea. I'll talk to my welding mates... She's being retired from daily driving tomorrow and is going up on the jack stands for a while, getting a bit of a suspension overhaul Ash 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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