EA82 "Hail Mary" pass repair

[rickyhils]

I have a salvaged EA82 non turbo long block from another Loyale. Will be pulling out the crank shaft. If no scoring on the crank journals [no spun bearings] and it scopes out OK, am thinking of doing a "Hail Mary" pass and just put new matching size main bearings in. Will do same assessment on connector rods for bearing replacement . If cylinder walls actually have crosshatch marks remaining- is there still a chance in Heaven that all new rings would have the engine run ok? At least I know enough from reading here that NO WAY will I be re-boring an old EA82. I have a known good oil pump [Beck Arnley] to use in it  I have the time and interest to tackle such an "iffy" project. Thanks for ANY and ALL feedback on likely hood of actually getting it running again, to whatever degree and for however long it stays running reliably.

Edited September 8, 2019 by rickyhils
More direct question

[el_freddo]

One way to find out, but I don’t see why not. 

I say go for it, it sounds like you don’t have anything to lose! 

Cheers 

Bennie

[ferp420]

our cylinders tend to oval out they only were on the bottom and is almost imposable to get a good seal if you realy want to use new rings  hone the hay out of the cylinders get.the wall as ruff as you feel comfertable.with so the rings wear alittle faster and hopefully they will seal the cylinder faster if at all

i say just leave the pistons in there holes and do what ever work your gona do with out removing the jugs otherwise its gona be hell geting a good seal

the lower ends rearly go bad so unless it was run low on oil i wouldent do more than a quick inspection if the cylinders are still round then theres no reason to look at the bottom end in my opinion anyway

Edited September 8, 2019 by ferp420

[GeneralDisorder]

DO NOT HONE THE CYLINDERS!! Clear?

I wouldn't split the case. Distrubing the case half alignment is a bad idea. New rings and run it. The rings will seat just fine.

GD

 

[rickyhils]

el_freddo  -Thanks for the friendly support. And may you never have that "extra bolt" lying about after you've painstakingly and meticulously reassembled everything!

[rickyhils]

 

  ferp420

Makes sense- if cylinders still round then no reason to look at crank. Or at least much less reason to do so. You reminded me when you said "tend to oval out". The spring action of the rings pushes away from the gap. I have to visualize that  I have no piston/crank work experience, only axle, cyl heads, timing belt stuff on 1991 Loyale. Ten years ago I followed the Gloyale post on MT5 front trans oil seal leak. FWD. 5 SPD . I put in two new main shaft bearings and the seal. Resurfaced the flywheel and new clutch parts. 90k miles since then and all still good. I was forced to tear into the trans in 2009 totally inexperienced, as my car was junk yard bound with that bad trans oil leak. Will say that I had my brain with me the whole time. ha ha . When came time to match up the two trans housing halves and bolt it all back together, I patted myself on the back for NOT FORGETTING TO PUT THE SEALANT ON!. I think I used some RTV red stuff.

   Don't ever get 2HI24BY.  Thanks again for the reply.,

Edited September 8, 2019 by rickyhils

[rickyhils]

GeneralDisorder

Your advise is well taken. Will NOT hone cyl walls .  I just read your 2017 post on case realignment [96 Frankenmotor] Even if crank showed to be OK and new bearings were put in then likely misalignment of case halves would be a whole new issue with bad mechanical results not too far ahead. And any thrust bearing would also need attention. In this case staying with a "known" is better than risking total engine failure.

Thanks

Edited September 8, 2019 by rickyhils
More informed

[FerGloyale]

4 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

DO NOT HONE THE CYLINDERS!! Clear?

I wouldn't split the case. Distrubing the case half alignment is a bad idea. New rings and run it. The rings will seat just fine.

GD

 

+1

Re-ring and go.

EA82 bottom ends are TOUGH........unless it's been starves for oil the crank and block will be fine.

[rickyhils]

FerGloyale . Are you the Gloyale that posted 10 years ago on how to fix the MT5 5spd front seal oil leak? I followed up on that - 90k miles ago in 2009. That saved my car from the scrap heap. Thanks again

Edited September 8, 2019 by rickyhils

[FerGloyale]

38 minutes ago, rickyhils said:

FerGloyale . Are you the Gloyale that posted 10 years ago on how to fix the MT5 5spd front seal oil leak? I followed up on that - 90k miles ago in 2009. That saved my car from the scrap heap. Thanks again

yup that's me.

Somehow could not log on to my old screen name when site changed a year or 2 back.

[rickyhils]

FerGloyale

Once again, I salute you for that posting. I was THAT close to Sending my Loyale to the salvage yard.

[Steptoe]

A local specialist used to offer exchange EA engines they had simply slapped new rings and bearings and serviced the heads. Out of maybe fifteen EAs I have pulled down, only ever found one crank with a scored crank journal.

I also had one crank that would flex a little and pounded the block on the central bearing, mushrooming things. This gave quite a growl as the load and revs got up, but never let me down. I am the responsible party on that one, still took 180,000 km to do it, and the number of revs this beast saw often, it probably felt it had done double

[rickyhils]

Steptoe . Have heard similar re: longevity. One repair guy in my Los Angeles area said he never knew of any EA82 that ever needed rings. For me it is now a bit of a game to keep my Loyale on the road for another 100k mi. Seriously. It's at 320k now. Even allowing for an engine swap maybe 21 years ago by previous owner. this engine has at least 250k on it. It IS a BEAST that will not die. It is a non-turbo, under powered, 1.8, SPFI, FWD car. But it drives nice. I'm not the off-road, 4WD, EJ engine swap, low-range trans, raised body type thrill seeker. I just feel this car is deserving of my best efforts, for more than one reason. And nowadays I'll need to keep track of things like 1.) Having 2 or 3 axles ready to swap in.[even if only A-1 Cardone stuff]  2.) Having some good T.B. kits w good water pumps. [Good ones are still available] 3.) Researching how to rebuild oil pump if need be some day. Stupid me as 10 years ago I swapped out Loyale oil pump for new Beck-Arnley pump, only to find out later that the pump was fine. The HLA TOD tick-of death syndrome had me bamboozled into how to fix it. So, in my DIY scuffle I successfully managed to toss a good oil pump into the dumpster, thinking it was a "bad oil pump". Oh well, now I know that the "Mickey-Mouse" eared rubber pump gasket is a handy thing to have in stock.   end    talk later   any time  . . . . Be well..

[montermahan]

I just ran a hone thru the cylinders to break the glaze and put in new rings.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

20 minutes ago, montermahan said:

I just ran a hone thru the cylinders to break the glaze and put in new rings.

 

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GLAZE!!!!!! 

Congrats on wrecking your cylinder walls. 

F***ing morons! 

GD

[montermahan]

Sorry to put your panties in a bunch.  My motor, my way.

[GeneralDisorder]

4 minutes ago, montermahan said:

Sorry to put your panties in a bunch.  My motor, my way.

One less EA82. Good riddance. 

Educate yourself next time before you ruin something that's actually valuable and someone cares about. Honing is a fat waste of time and causes much more damage than just leaving it alone. 

GD

[carfreak85]

1 hour ago, montermahan said:

Sorry to put your panties in a bunch.  My motor, my way.

Make a note to your self to check back in with us in ~30k miles to let us know if there is any oil consumption from doing it "your way."

[montermahan]

I'm sorry I didn't do that 30 k miles ago,  its been 150 k now.  all is good.  I've never worked on an American motor that didn't recommend honing a cross hatch pattern in the cyl's for proper break in and seating of new rings.  But I mainly have worked on American engines and they must be different.  I'm sorry,  enough said.  I will let the subaru people make recommendations from now on.

[Steptoe]

Well Ricky, your local may not have seen abused EA82T !

I still have a short motors to pull down, bought it 12 years ago as complete, but evidence work had been done to it.

Quiet as a sewing machine, strongest pulling EA82T I have had. No miss, no shudder at all anywhere

But found 60 psi in one pot, 120 in the rest. Seems someone did head thinking burnt valve. Valves sealed well, just rings allowed boost pressure to turn into enough blow by up steep inclines, to blow engine oil up the rear vent baffle and into the PCV system, which I bypassed to a catch can. 750 ml was not big enough!

[montermahan]

On 9/11/2019 at 12:27 PM, GeneralDisorder said:

One less EA82. Good riddance. 

Educate yourself next time before you ruin something that's actually valuable and someone cares about. Honing is a fat waste of time and causes much more damage than just leaving it alone. 

GD

CYLINDER BORE REFINISHING

Cylinder bore refinishing is extremely important in the engine rebuild process. There are some basic rules and facts that will prevent common problems incurred when deglazing or refinishing cylinders.

Cross Hatch Angles

The correct angle for cross hatch lines to intersect is approximately 45 degrees. Too steep an angle promotes oil migration down the cylinder resulting in a thin oil film, which can cause ring and cylinder scuffling.

Too flat a cross hatch angle can hold excess oil which conversely causes thicker oil films, which the piston rings will ride up on or hydroplane. Excessive oil consumption will result.

The diagrams will illustrate cross hatch angles.

Honing Methods

Two basic systems are used to refinish cylinder walls either rigid stones or a flexible brush.

Correct cylinder finishes can be achieved with either system if used correctly. In all cases the manufacturers' instructions must be followed with respect to:

1. Stone grit
2. Honing oil
3. Stone pressure (Automatic equipment)

The vertical speed of the brush or hone in the cylinder is what causes the cross hatch angle on the surface of the cylinder wall. Too slow a vertical speed causes too flat an angle, while too rapid up and down motion of the hone or brush causes too steep an intersecting angle. In the case of hand honing it will be necessary for the operator to experiment to learn the proper up and down movement in relation to the rotating speed of the one to produce proper cross hatch angle.

Cylinder Roughness

Substantial controversy exists on the correct cylinder roughness for proper seating of piston rings, whether chrome, moly, or plain cast iron. It has been our experience that the use of 220-280 grit stones and achieving proper cross hatch angle produces a finish compatible to all three types of the above rings.

Cylinder Cleaning

The single most critical factor of any cylinder refinishing job is the cleaning of that cylinder after the honing operation.

It can be stated, pistons, rings, and cylinder bores will forgive slight variations in roughness, cross hatch angle, etc. No engine component will tolerate dirt!

Honing cylinders leaves two types of "dirt" on the cylinder wall; honing stone residue and cast iron dust. If not removed before the engine is reassembled, the world’s finest lapping compound is waiting to destroy all the hard work of assembly the instant the engine is started.

Proper cylinder cleaning consists of a thorough scrubbing of the block with hot, soapy water taking care to clean the surface under the cylinder facing the crankcase. Rinse with hot water, dry, and lightly oil to prevent rust.

For detailed honing questions it is wise to contact the manufacturer of your specific equipment. They are experts in metal finishing and of course completely understand their own equipment.

In general if the practices above are used excellent engine performance will result.

This is copied from a "F---king morons" directions from Hastings

 

 

• info@supercircle.in
•  
• +91-11-41446500

 

• HOME
• ABOUT US 
• PISTON RINGS 
• APPLICATION RANGE 
• QUALITY ASSURANCE
• CONTACT

Select Language▼

PISTON RING INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS

1. Home
2.  
3. Piston Rings
4.  
5. Piston Ring Installation Instructions

Supercircle piston rings are designed to give original performance. Their correct fitment, suitable ring end gaps and proper side & back clearances in individual pistons leads to long life of engines, less oil consumption and increased power output. The piston ring installation instructions are as follows:

Piston Ring Installation Instructions

1. Remove wear ridge on cylinder walls before removing pistons. Failure to do this may lead to cracked or broken piston ring lands. Use a good ridge cutter to do this.
2. Remove glaze of the cylinder bores by light honing or by a glaze breaker.
3. Thoroughly clean the cylinder walls to remove all grit and carbon and smear them with light engine oil.
4. Check the size of the cylinder bores and correctly choose the size of rings for trouble-free performance. Piston Rings are available from standard size to different oversizes for all engines.
5. Chromium plated piston rings must not be used in chromium plated cylinder liners.
6. Place the new ring set in individual cylinder bores and check for correct ring end gaps. The normal recommended ring end gaps of rings for internal combustion engines are as follows:

  Another Morons thoughts.  

 

I guessing Subaru is something special and requires no glaze breaking, if so, Disregard these articles from other people.  I have overhauled a lot of motor's for people in the last 50 years and have used a glaze breaker or fine hone on them all and not a one of these people has called me a "F----ing Moron".    I hate people that try to make themselves look smart by trying to prove other people wrong.  There's more than one wright way to do something.  The End.  MM

[el_freddo]

http://www.snowvalley.20m.com/bikes/dnthone.htm 

@montermahanread it. Less there than what you’ve just posted above. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[montermahan]

 

Quote

 

Good informative article.  I guess there are 2 schools of thought 

 

 

.  I just go by what the ring manufactures suggest.    New times and new ways of doing things.  Thanks. MM

Edited September 12, 2019 by montermahan

[rickyhils]

Steptoe

Yeah. Evidence that it was "worked on" , that can be cause for alarm. You hope that you don't find a "Heli-coil" or two from stripped threads. ha ha . And those EA82 can be "quiet as a mouse" at times for sure. And I don't do turbo, so that's not an issue for me, However I did do a compression check on my running Loyale [ w /320k miles].  Left side is 105 and 110. Right side is 90 and 115. That was a dry only test [ did not do oil leak down test] . Ten years ago I was a DIY idiot and replaced both heads [ used Fel-pro perma torque]  thinking bad gasket. Turns out it that coolant loss was from the rubber "double window" gasket under the  throttle body!  (Doh!)

My other EA82 [from salvage yard] is for "re-ring and go" only. That means no rod and main bearings. Maybe any metal debris in the oil pan might alter those plans. Advice from General Disorder will be FOLLOWED for sure . [ no honing] .  

I don't know think that the piston to rod has any bearings. I have NEVER done ANY rings on ANY car. Have watched many a Youtube on Subaru pistons. I do know to check RING GAP AT THE ENDS and get the proper gap orientation. And that outward expanding Circlips holding the piston to rod insert is CRITICAL, or I will soon hear and feel a hole getting punched through the block. Must be quite the lovely sound. that.

Edited September 13, 2019 by rickyhils

[rickyhils]

GeneralDisorder

I hear you . NO HONING for new rings on this. (Crank and rods are being left alone) . AND- Where to get new rings? Subaru? Were originals chromium? ( Non-turbo) Thanks much.

Edited September 13, 2019 by rickyhils