Are 02 EJ axles longer than 90s? Axle so tight cv roll pin hole can’t line up...

[idosubaru]

Just finished installing all EJ knuckle, strut, axles on a 2” or maybe 2.5” lifted XT6.   It is making a loud, ominous, metallic screeching sound that’s definitely not tires or brakes.  This is just driving down a long driveway, don’t want to drive it like this. 

The axle is so tight it could barely be installed and the inner cup can’t be pried back even a millimeter for the inner joint roll pin to line up.  The inner cup seems bottomed out and won’t move even the slightest.  The wheel bearing side is fully seated and looks normal. 

Oddly I’ve driven it 6 months or so with one side converted. It was fine all winter with EJ suspension on one side and XT6 on the other.  I finished the other side today.  

I assume the axle is too long and pushing the bearings/knuckle/diff or something too hard?  Though that doesn’t explain why one side was fine all winter - unless the axles are different? 

Im using 02 Outback axles in an 02 or 04 Impreza knuckle - maybe that’s the issue?

maybe I need a 90s axle or Impreza axle?

Or this shouldn’t matter and maybe something is wrong with the axle?

[FerGloyale]

EJ track width/axles are wider/longer than XT6 by about 1-1/4" total track difference.

You need to widen your control arms 5/8th inch each.

 

[idosubaru]

6 hours ago, FerGloyale said:

EJ track width/axles are wider/longer than XT6 by about 1-1/4" total track difference.

You need to widen your control arms 5/8th inch each.

 

Where do you widen?  cut and weld or widen at the body side bushing?

I think lots of folks have bolted EJ knuckles and axles to XT6s and I’ve done it before as well but maybe something else was different I’m not recalling. 

Edited September 23, 2019 by idosubaru

[idosubaru]

chux and John using EJ axles and knuckles without issue and I’ve done it before too:

https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/84505-legacy-knuckle-in-ea82-5-lug-conversion/#comment-709813

I’ll pull and check the axle and wheel bearing.  

Can the axle be too tight and could it hurt the diff?

Any ideas @Numbchux ? or @john in KY

[john in KY]

Sorry but can not recall what I did all those years ago.  

[idosubaru]

4 hours ago, john in KY said:

Sorry but can not recall what I did all those years ago.  

Sure thing John, thanks buddy!

[Numbchux]

I've been using the same pair of axles/knuckles on my Loyale (with XT6 arms) and both XT6s. Came from a '92 FWD Legacy. They work just like stock.

 

According to RockAuto, the TrakMotiv axles for the '02 Outback are only 1/8" longer than the '92 Legacy, so that shouldn't be a bit difference.

 

The '02+ Impreza Sedan axles are definitely longer. You definitely have to avoid those.

[idosubaru]

54 minutes ago, Numbchux said:

I've been using the same pair of axles/knuckles on my Loyale (with XT6 arms) and both XT6s. Came from a '92 FWD Legacy. They work just like stock.

 

According to RockAuto, the TrakMotiv axles for the '02 Outback are only 1/8" longer than the '92 Legacy, so that shouldn't be a bit difference.

 

The '02+ Impreza Sedan axles are definitely longer. You definitely have to avoid those.

Okay, awesome.  Mine are 00-04 axles and while Leg/OB are way more common here there's no telling what these axles are from.  

I'll take it apart first to have a look and look for some earlier axles. 

[john in KY]

I have a FWD transaxle out in the shed that still has the inner joints if you can use them.  Junk yard cut the axles when I bought the engine. 

[idosubaru]

33 minutes ago, john in KY said:

I have a FWD transaxle out in the shed that still has the inner joints if you can use them.  Junk yard cut the axles when I bought the engine. 

Thanks John, axles are only $20 locally and I don't know where the axle length difference happens - the inner joint, outer, or shaft itself.

[el_freddo]

The difference will be in the shaft. 

And I thought you always had to build custom shafts for the EJ brakes up front on the L series.

Cheers 

Bennie

[idosubaru]

53 minutes ago, el_freddo said:

The difference will be in the shaft. 

And I thought you always had to build custom shafts for the EJ brakes up front on the L series.

Cheers 

Bennie

In the shaft does seem most likely.  

Depends how you do it. XT6 trans stub/inner axle spline count is the same as an EJ trans so an EJ axle and knuckle swaps right into an XT6.  

EA nonturbo spline count is different and needs addressed.  In the US 93 FWD Impreza axles have the same spline count as EA82 trans. If you had that vehicle you might have options, if not then EJ22 axles wouldn’t directly swap and you’re into addressing it some other way like custom axles. 

If it’s an auto, swap the stubby shaft. They’re all the same for autos from like 1985-2002 or something like that.  

This doesn’t matter but for clarity a few of us retain the stock XT6 calipers on EJ hubs, not EJ brakes.  

 

XT6 trans spline count is the same 25 as EJ so the inner joints of the axles are interchangeable.  EA is a 23 spline different 

[el_freddo]

EA MPFI and MOfI turbo are also 25 spline count on the diff stubs - same as the EJ. 

I always thought the EJ shafts were too long for the EA setup when running EJ hubs. 

I’ll have to check out that front wheel drive impreza option. We got those over here, if the shaft length is good, it might be worth looking into for what I want. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Numbchux]

13 hours ago, el_freddo said:

And I thought you always had to build custom shafts for the EJ brakes up front on the L series.

Cheers 

Bennie

Nope. As I mentioned, I've been running stock '92 FWD Legacy front axles/knuckles on 3 of my cars without issues. Now, this is not the first time we've heard of axles bottoming out, and I haven't seen a pattern on what definitely does work and what doesn't. 

[idosubaru]

3 hours ago, Numbchux said:

'92 FWD Legacy front axles/knuckles

Before I go to the yard, do you have a hunch of whether:

1. Auto/manual matters?  You probably said at some point but what were yours?

2. FWD/AWD matters?

3.90-94 or 95-98 matters?

[Numbchux]

3 hours ago, idosubaru said:

Before I go to the yard, do you have a hunch of whether:

1. Auto/manual matters?  You probably said at some point but what were yours?

2. FWD/AWD matters?

3.90-94 or 95-98 matters?

I suspect genuine OE '90-'94 Legacy FWD axles are the shortest, but by a pretty small amount. And the aftermarket ones have been replaced with a single part number that splits the difference.

Mine was an automatic. I suspect the only time that makes any difference is with '93-'94 Imprezas, where the MT got 23 spline inners and AT got 25.

[idosubaru]

1 hour ago, Numbchux said:

I suspect genuine OE '90-'94 Legacy FWD axles are the shortest, 

Mine was an automatic. I suspect the only time that makes any difference is with '93-'94 Imprezas, where the MT got 23 spline inners and AT got 25.

Great beast, thanks! 

I think this yard will let me look for OEM axles which is all I use. Id guess any 90s work, but I’ll look for early FWD like yours.

I’ll check if 93 axles work in 02 knuckles but Ive used a zillion 00+ axles in 90s knuckles, pretty sure that’s fine.

[idosubaru]

On 9/24/2019 at 4:56 PM, Numbchux said:

I suspect genuine OE '90-'94 Legacy FWD axles are the shortest, but by a pretty small amount. And the aftermarket ones have been replaced with a single part number that splits the difference.

Mine was an automatic. I suspect the only time that makes any difference is with '93-'94 Imprezas, where the MT got 23 spline inners and AT got 25.

Crack. 93 FWD axles do the same thing, you even said if they’re shorter it’s not by much.

all I could get was aftermarket, as you said they’re probably longer than stock. 

Im wondering if EJ strut mounts and knuckle dimensions/geometry are all the same? Maybe 02 Outback and 02 (or maybe 04) Impreza knuckles could cause a geometry problem? (But I don’t think so?)  

Or maybe the struts are too tall:  2” or more lift on their own.  maybe they’re causing a severe angle inside the CV that’s preventing the internal joint from seating fully in the cup.  And that’s why I have to partially compress them just to get the strut and knuckle holes to line up?

[FerGloyale]

6 hours ago, idosubaru said:

Or maybe the struts are too tall:  2” or more lift on their own.  maybe they’re causing a severe angle inside the CV that’s preventing the internal joint from seating fully in the cup.  And that’s why I have to partially compress them just to get the strut and knuckle holes to line up?

This.

See my thread in the offroad forum.

Ran into interference using EJ (93 Imp FWD 5spd) With 6" crossmemeber and 8" equivalent strut top lift (2" over factory geometry) on an EA82 front cross (car is EA81, but swapped along time ago.

Worse if you didn't widen you'r track (EJ track is 1-1/4" wider)

I had to modify inner cup to accommodate the angle.

[idosubaru]

On 10/1/2019 at 5:24 PM, FerGloyale said:

This.

See my thread in the offroad forum.

Ran into interference using EJ (93 Imp FWD 5spd) With 6" crossmemeber and 8" equivalent strut top lift (2" over factory geometry) on an EA82 front cross (car is EA81, but swapped along time ago.

Worse if you didn't widen you'r track (EJ track is 1-1/4" wider)

I had to modify inner cup to accommodate the angle.

How did you modify the inner cup?

Okay - so you think being lifted too high will cause axle issues like this?
You've seen this before?

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

could there be a 'clocking'/phasing issue with the inner vs outer joints? I think it can make some difference in situations near maximum deflection angles.

 

 

 

 

[idosubaru]

26 minutes ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

could there be a 'clocking'/phasing issue with the inner vs outer joints? I think it can make some difference in situations near maximum deflection angles.

 

 

 

 

No idea, I wasn’t aware that’s a possibility.  I don’t think that’s the issue in this case.  

The lift causing angle issues makes sense for a few reasons. Particularly since I have issues and no one else does. 

[idosubaru]

Solved - thanks for the suggestions and tracking along. It is lifted too high. The axle/joint binds in the ID of the cup and can’t fully seat due to the excessive axle angle.

I need to drop these 2003 outback struts an inch or less.  I’ll stop at the dealer and check 00 legacy or outback springs.  I think they’re shorter and maybe a little less stiff. 

[idosubaru]

To further follow up on this - it works fine.  When reassembling the knuckle/axle - the axle is at a such steep angle, the shaft is hitting the edge of the cup and won't push into the cup any further. So you can't rotate the knuckle to fully seat in the strut.  At least not with mine - I'm using Outback struts/springs and EJ knuckles so it's lifted at least 2". 

Jacking the control arm to compress the strut levels the axle enough for it to slide further into the cup and then with considerable effort the knuckle will rotated fully into the strut.

It's really tight but it's what I'm currently running. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by idosubaru