H6 Timing chain question

[Phermenter]

Hello all,

  So I'm rebuilding our 2001 H6, and I'm re-installing the, used, timing chains. I found the dark links, and the gold links, and I have them all lined up. I believe they are correct. And then I had this thought that this would have been so much easier if instead of colored links, that we just knew the number of links between marks.

 For example, on the left bank, say that from the intake cam timing mark there are 13 links, and that 13th link is the link on the exhaust cam timing mark. Then, the chain is tight across the water pump, and the idler, and there are X number of links from the exhaust cam mark to the mark on the crank shaft, and then X number of links back to the intake cam mark. Same kind of thing on the right bank, the a number of links between the intake and exhaust, indicated by the two gold links, and then so many links from the exhaust mark around the lower idler, and up to the crankshaft.

  Thoughts? If I can, I'll see if I can get a look at new chains and count them.

Mike

[1 Lucky Texan]

tooth counts for timing belts can be found on-line....have you searched for tooth or link counts or w'ever for the EZ 6 cylinder engines?

[idosubaru]

Those H6 marks are dim, I think they are to give us a hint of what it’s like to be colorblind. Lol 

I’d guess someone has counted teeth like LT said, people love that stuff. The H6 can seem like a monstrosity but in the end it’s simple. 

Ensure cam and crank marks are lined up, verify marks, rotate engine carefully by hand and make sure they’re still lined up.  Check check and recheck and recheck again until you’re comfortable, ask if it doesn’t look right or post pics of your marks.  Done.

i get it - it’s a double check and aid.  but they seem to confuse and increase anxiety  when they’re not needed anyway.  

I’ve never counted teeth...probably once for kicks, or worried about timing belt/chain marks. Work off of what the engine sees: the cam and crank marks, it’s the most mechanically reliable method and fewer cooks in the kitchen.  Alignment marks/counts only help ensure that anyway. It’s not like teeth counts or chain marks will be right and cam and crank marks wrong.  

Edited October 20, 2019 by idosubaru

[Phermenter]

On 10/18/2019 at 10:57 PM, 1 Lucky Texan said:

tooth counts for timing belts can be found on-line....have you searched for tooth or link counts or w'ever for the EZ 6 cylinder engines?

Yes. All I found was a good image to count them myself.

[Phermenter]

15 hours ago, idosubaru said:

Those H6 marks are dim, I think they are to give us a hint of what it’s like to be colorblind. Lol 

I’d guess someone has counted teeth like LT said, people love that stuff. The H6 can seem like a monstrosity but in the end it’s simple. 

Ensure cam and crank marks are lined up, verify marks, rotate engine carefully by hand and make sure they’re still lined up.  Check check and recheck and recheck again until you’re comfortable, ask if it doesn’t look right or post pics of your marks.  Done.

i get it - it’s a double check and aid.  but they seem to confuse and increase anxiety  when they’re not needed anyway.  

I’ve never counted teeth...probably once for kicks, or worried about timing belt/chain marks. Work off of what the engine sees: the cam and crank marks, it’s the most mechanically reliable method and fewer cooks in the kitchen.  Alignment marks/counts only help ensure that anyway. It’s not like teeth counts or chain marks will be right and cam and crank marks wrong.  

Yup! I did all that. Especially the check, and check again, and again...   It's all together, and before I put the front chain cover on, I turned the engine over several time and didn't feel anything mechanically bind, or feel like something was hitting something else, like a valve and a piston...

 

[idosubaru]

57 minutes ago, Phermenter said:

Yup! I did all that. Especially the check, and check again, and again...   It's all together, and before I put the front chain cover on, I turned the engine over several time and didn't feel anything mechanically bind, or feel like something was hitting something else, like a valve and a piston...

 

great.  hopefully you find a good tooth count somewhere.  "good picture to count yourself" - HAHA, nice detective work!

[1 Lucky Texan]

uh - wanna share the numbers you found?

[Phermenter]

14 hours ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

uh - wanna share the numbers you found?

Yes. Sorry. I'll reply to the whole thread..

[Phermenter]

Here at the link counts. And my caveat, I haven't started the engine yet. When that happens, I'll know if I've installed the chains correctly. Remember. I found the gold and dark links, so I really believe this to be correct. But we'll see!

  All shafts are up, in the 12 O'clock position. On the left bank, starting at the crankshaft gear mark going clockwise, the intake mark is the 28th link. Then, from the intake mark, the exhaust mark is on the 12th link. The chain is tight across the water pump and the lower idler gear, and the dark link is on the lower right side as one is looking at the gear. Then back to the crankshaft gear. I didn't have the upper idler or the tensioner installed yet, so all the slack is between the crank gear and the intake gear.

  On the right bank, from the intake mark and going counter-clockwise, the exhaust mark is on the 15th link. Then from the exhaust mark, the dark links align on the lower idler at the 28th link. Most of the slack was between the exhaust gear and the lower idler. The guide on the top fit with almost no slack.

So that's what I found. We'll see.

Thanks all for your input!

Mike

[idosubaru]

2 hours ago, Phermenter said:

Here at the link counts. And my caveat, I haven't started the engine yet. When that happens, I'll know if I've installed the chains correctly. Remember. I found the gold and dark links, so I really believe this to be correct. But we'll see!

  All shafts are up, in the 12 O'clock position. On the left bank, starting at the crankshaft gear mark going clockwise, the intake mark is the 28th link. Then, from the intake mark, the exhaust mark is on the 12th link. The chain is tight across the water pump and the lower idler gear, and the dark link is on the lower right side as one is looking at the gear. Then back to the crankshaft gear. I didn't have the upper idler or the tensioner installed yet, so all the slack is between the crank gear and the intake gear.

  On the right bank, from the intake mark and going counter-clockwise, the exhaust mark is on the 15th link. Then from the exhaust mark, the dark links align on the lower idler at the 28th link. Most of the slack was between the exhaust gear and the lower idler. The guide on the top fit with almost no slack.

So that's what I found. We'll see.

Thanks all for your input!

Mike

Excellent description, thanks. 

[1 Lucky Texan]

thanx - I may never dive into ours that deeply, but this could help some folks in the future.

[Phermenter]

YAY! She started right up! Crankity-crankity, then running with a clickity-clackity and then the boy turned her off. In a panic, he asked, "What's that?" I told him it's just the upper end, and the engine needed to pump oil up there. So we started her, with the EXACT same results, from the engine and from the boy! I told him to start her up, and stop turning her off! He did, and 3 seconds later, she's purring. With a HUGE fuel leak! Seems, I buggered up an o-ring on the #2 injector.... Off to get o-rings tomorrow...

But this validates the link counting!

Thanks all for your input.

Mike