sirtokesalot Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) ive been noticing a tick when the engine is cold that goes away within a minute or 2 of driving i have provided a video of the sound u can hear it more near the end when i stop and open the door at the end of my driveway. this is on a 2001 outback 2.5 engine. what do you guys think this could be? ive been thinking maby a valve tick? Edited October 19, 2019 by sirtokesalot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Try this tool to locate the noise. Some times I use my 18 inch screwdriver but you can use a 1/2 dowel rod sharpened somewhat to a point on one end. Hold the other end of it in your hand like making a fist and put your first finger and thumb against your ear. Touch the other end on different places and listen to the noise. First try it on the alternator front and back. Then put it on the bolt of an idler pully. If the noise is a lifter you can move the stick along the edge of the head or on the bolts of the valve cover. Somewhere the noise should be louder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 https://www.harborfreight.com/mechanics-stethoscope-63691.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 That sounds like a dead cam belt tensioner. Removed LHS cam cover and check if the tensioner is bouncing. There are plenty of YouTube videos about this. If you can’t see it, it doesn’t mean it’s good, use the above link to the stethoscope and use this to properly diagnose the issue. We had one go bad on our EJ251 and it looked fine while running but the stethoscope pinned the noise with the tensioner. Swapped for OEM and no issues since Cheers Bennie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, el_freddo said: That sounds like a dead cam belt tensioner. Removed LHS cam cover and check if the tensioner is bouncing. There are plenty of YouTube videos about this. If you can’t see it, it doesn’t mean it’s good, use the above link to the stethoscope and use this to properly diagnose the issue. We had one go bad on our EJ251 and it looked fine while running but the stethoscope pinned the noise with the tensioner. Swapped for OEM and no issues since Cheers Bennie would the cam tensioner get quiet after a few minutes of the car running? that sound will completely go away after driving about a mile or 2. or if i leave it idling for 10 or so minutes. heres another vid of it running with the drivers side timing cover off the tensioner seems prety stable to me but the sound does seem to be coming from the center of the engine vs one or the other side. u can tell by the end of the video however that it is already starting to get quieter from just running for the couple minutes it was running messing with it. should i let it warm up and make another vid of how it sounds warm? this sound only happens when the engines cold. Edited October 20, 2019 by sirtokesalot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Probably not the tensioner if it goes quiet then. I’ll have to watch the video tomorrow and get back to you, I’m sure someone will have an answer for you. Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 honestly - to me, it sounds a bit like my 02 Forester (EJ251) which has piston slap.. the colder it is outside, the worse it sounds on cold startup, but goes away once fully warmed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 (edited) 2001 I don't think is known for piston slap is it? that is something that seems to stop after warming-up. ugh - beat by 6 minutes! Edited October 20, 2019 by 1 Lucky Texan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 if thats piston slap thats the loudest piston slap i ever heard in one of these engines. this engine i was told only has 115,000 miles on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, sirtokesalot said: if that's piston slap that's the loudest piston slap i ever heard in one of these engines. this engine i was told only has 115,000 miles on it. you haven't heard mine in the dead of winter, LOL When it is 10 below, on a cold start, the damn thing sounds like it is going to blow up it rattles so bad. Give it a few minutes to warm up and it sounds much better. but in all seriousness.. the number of miles on it makes little difference - if that is what it is. oh, and for the record, I have over 253K on the old girl now and still going strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 To me just about every Subaru I ever owned ticks when cold at least a little. Some loud , some barely. And the piston slap thing too. Seems fine after running some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 8, 2019 Author Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) it seems the more i drive it the louder it is getting still only while cold though and it is not getting louder fast but definitely seems louder than it was before. however u can still hear it when it warms up while accelerating just not very loud. i don't think its piston slap a friend of mine seems to think its a rod knock but i dunno about that ither as it doesn't sound like any rod knock ive heard before. what is the cheapest way to fix an engine with low compression can i just put rings in it and new gaskets or is there more to it than that? i have a 2001 forester block that had low compression when we pulled it last year before scrapping the car. Edited November 8, 2019 by sirtokesalot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 I have read of some negelected engines having gummed-up oil control rings. Might cause low compression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) im starting to believe its a bad tensioner. i took the drivers timing cover back off and with a 2 foot extension i listened around the block with one end to ym ear and the other on spots around the block. the left and right heads are pretty quiet if i take the oil cap off and listen inside the crank case i hear nothing knocking if i put the extension above the timing tensioner i hear the knock and if i put the extension down on the tensioner its self i hear it the loudest through the extension and i can feel the knocking as well on the side of my ear while listening to it. im going to pull the tensioner off my 2001 forester parts engine and see if that fixes it hoping to get the job done tomorrow night or Thursday. the timing belt was new about 4000 miles 1 year ago but the tensioner was reused. it should be fine to just reuse the belt i would think yes? Edited November 12, 2019 by sirtokesalot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 I’d reuse the belt unless it is damaged during removal. Best of luck with the replacement tensioner, I’m also glad to hear that’s what it is and not bottom end knock. Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 well i changed it today and its still there. im likely going to build another engine for it that doesn't knock for next summer or whenever it lets go. it might never let go it might just be severe piston slap ither way i dont like it so engine swap will be in order as soon as i can ither find a good one cheap or get this low compression one rebuilt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comatosellama Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) I believe you have piston slap, my car has done the same thing with the same (i think) engine for 40k miles with no issue. I take it to the dealer and they tell that as long as it goes away in less than 5 minutes, it is normal. Same thing with an oil leak 1qt/1000mi The piston slap on my car is VERY loud under 32 degrees F, so loudness doesn't mean it can't be piston slap. I can hear it over my subwoofer some days. Even more anecdotal evidence: I was talking to a friend with a built 07 STI, about this, and he said his brand new built block knocked from day 1, so a new block may not solve your problem. My advice is to keep oil in it, and let it warm up for 2-3 minutes before you hop on the highway. I spent 6 months freaking out about this issue, i think i have 5-6 posts about it. I would just drive it. I'll try and find my piston slap videos so you can compare. Edited November 15, 2019 by comatosellama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 45 minutes ago, comatosellama said: I believe you have piston slap, my car has done the same thing with the same (i think) engine for 40k miles with no issue. I take it to the dealer and they tell that as long as it goes away in less than 5 minutes, it is normal. Same thing with an oil leak 1qt/1000mi The piston slap on my car is VERY loud under 32 degrees F, so loudness doesn't mean it can't be piston slap. I can hear it over my subwoofer some days. Even more anecdotal evidence: I was talking to a friend with a built 07 STI, about this, and he said his brand new built block knocked from day 1, so a new block may not solve your problem. My advice is to keep oil in it, and let it warm up for 2-3 minutes before you hop on the highway. I spent 6 months freaking out about this issue, i think i have 5-6 posts about it. I would just drive it. I'll try and find my piston slap videos so you can compare. it is possible its just piston slap but it still bothers me. the low compression engine i have did run and drive from where i got the car to where the engine was pulled and i know that engine did not knock it just had low compression so ither way it goes ill likely still slap new rings and head gaskets on that engine redo the heads and have an engine to swap in this summer if it lasts the winter witch im thinking it will due to it not really getting worst minus when its really cold. it doesn't fully go away when its warm but it does get much quieter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 definitely sounds like piston slap to me from they way you are describing it.. and yeah, it can be a bit unnerving if you aren't used to it - kinda freaked me out the first winter with my Forester. but that was 3 yrs ago now, and still going strong (255,300 something). The colder it is outside, the worse it sounds on a cold start (also kind of embarrassing when other people are around), but invariable pretty much gone after several minutes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 11 hours ago, heartless said: i dont know why it quoted you i cant seem to remove it. heres another clip of how it sounded this morning starting it about 5 minutes ago in 30 degree temps. in the video it sounds a little less loud than in person but still noticable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 the key thing is that it goes away when the engine warms up.. yes, it sounds like rump roast on first start after sitting overnight (or all day at work). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) This is after idling 10 minutes and then the 20 min drive to work. Few stoplights before I got there. U can hear it when I accelerate and it goes away when I get up to some speed then I stop again and hear it lightly again near the end. have to listen closely. Edited November 15, 2019 by sirtokesalot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 Would there be any bad effects of using the pistons and rings from my current engine in another engine? I'm trying to figure out the cheapest way to get a quiet running engine from what I have. If I pull the pistons and rings from my current engine and say put them into the low compression engine then use my current engines heads and new head gaskets. Would there be any bad effects of using old rings and pistons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 hour ago, sirtokesalot said: Would there be any bad effects of using old rings and pistons? Not if the tolerances are within specs. Back in the 60's I used the compression rings from a flathead V8 in my 47 Harley. I had to grind some off the ends to get the proper spacing on the end gap on the rings. Take the compression rings off each of the pistons and put one into each cylinder and measure the end gap at different depths in the cylinder. That will show the amount of wear on both the used cylinder and the used ring. If the end gap is within specs, you will have good compression. Ideally, you should have a new ring to check the cylinder for wear. I never had to look and see if the FSM has the ring end gap measurement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1997reduxe Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 (edited) Did you ever seal the plate on the oil pump? Maybe it’s not getting the right pressure till the oil warms up. Have you tried parking it in a warm garage overnight? Then you’d know how temperature or hardware dependent it is. My fear is you’re going to do all that work breaking the engine apart and trying other rings etc and then still have the noise. You might do better just finding a less noisy engine. Edited November 16, 2019 by 1997reduxe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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