86 GL-10 Won't crank

[Dbeluscak]

Hey guys, I'm going to start by saying thanks! This forum has been an HUGE help keeping these subarus on the road. My daily is a 91 loyale that I drug out of a field (literally) for 100 bucks and got it going because of this forum. 

 

I recently purchased an 86 GL-10 turbo wagon (AT). Got it cheap at an auction. I know someone's had the dash out, they forgot to reconnect the speedo.. so I'll have to pull it anyway. 

Just trying to see where I need to go here. I can't get 12v to the starter solenoid. It's a black w/ white stripe 12ga that splits into two 16 ga. The only place that wire terminates is the ECM and a 9 pin red connector. The red connector goes nowhere that I can see. There's also a white 9 pin not hooked to anything. 

I have to be missing something basic, I've got good ground continuity. My ignition switch is working I've determined the black/yellow coming from the key is the start signal. Can't really tell where it goes. It also splits into 2 smaller gauge wires. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure this has been discussed multiple times but I couldn't find any NO CRANK threads where there was no power to the solenoid. 

[el_freddo]

When you check for power, do you have someone hold the ignition key in the start position? 

If not, the circuit has not been correctly tested. You could also try a contiuality test between the back of the switch to the starter solenoid. 

Have you tried running a wire from the starter soleiod pin to the positive on the battery to test the starter? 

Also another thing to check is the auto start cut switch - the one that only allows cranking in park or neutral. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Dbeluscak]

I'm testing for voltage while turning the key. Negative on battery terminal. Positive jammed into the spade connector (unhooked from solenoid). I haven't tried jumping to the solenoid yet, since I'll need to get that ignition wire sorted anyway. 

Found a "decent" body wiring diagram from autozone. I was just looking for the auto park/ neutral switch. The diagram says that's where the black/yellow goes. From there I have to assume the ecm gives 12v to the solenoid. 

Thanks, I'll find the switch and try that out. 

[DaveT]

12v to ignition switch.   Start contact to inhibitor  / neutral switch.  N S to starter solenoid.  That is the starter wiring.  1 thick wire.  Reading a schenaitic from an 86 FSM.

There are a few connectors in the harness.   All connections need to be good and solid, as the solenoid draws around  20 amps. There are no splits it the start wire, ecu is not involved with cranking.

[Dbeluscak]

That's odd, I dug a little further into the ecm harness. The black/white that I'm tracing indeed splits into the ecm and red 9 pin connector. 

With 1 lead plugged into the spade (not attached to the solenoid) and the other at the crimped connection I have .3ohms, so directly connected.. 

The crimp looks factory, not your average butt connector. Is there somewhere for the red and white 9 pin connectors to go? I can't seem to find anything on them. Whoever was in the dash did use masking tape and labeled each connection (how nice!). But there wasn't anything on the two nine pin. They are square with tiny spades. 

Any chance you could post a pic of the diagram? Can't seem to find a relevant one online. I'll try and upload some pics but I'm way over the MB limit.

 

Thanks again for all the help/advice. I still think I'm missing something simple. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Dbeluscak
Added images

[DaveT]

I can try later tonight 

[Dbeluscak]

On a side note, the engine will turn over if I just jump 12v to the solenoid. Nothing learned, just did it for fun

[Steptoe]

I had an 85 turbo sedan. I converted it to a 5MT 4WD DR and had to do a loop or link bypass of the don't start in gear switch of the old auto box and from memory, did this at a white plastic connector plug very close to the handbrake guts at carpet level.

This might be another check point for you.

Meanwhile, as you are keen to get it running in your shed you want want to start an upgrade to the starter circuit by adding a starter motor solenoid relay.

While in shed with this relay set up you can bypass safety built in and start car in gear and cause accident, injury or death(s) so lock the shifter in P. position while trying to diagnose

I used a section of the fat guage B/W wire from a donor.

Use a horn relay by Bosch with simple 85,86,87 & 30 terminals. Fit it in a handy place near starter motor.

Another fat wire battery positive, 20 A fuse is what I used between bat pos and 30 terminal of relay.

B/W wire from 87 terminal to starter solenoid

Now for diagnostic purposes need to add ground connection wire to terminal 85

As soon as you connect wire from 86 terminal to battery positive your starter motor will begin to crank even if you don't have ignition key in or on

This will get engine cranking.If trans is not in N or P car will lurch backwards or forwards.

Handbrake on as extra safety !!

[Steptoe]

4 minutes ago, Dbeluscak said:

On a side note, the engine will turn over if I just jump 12v to the solenoid. Nothing learned, just did it for fun

Handbrake on, check it holds, ignition on, then try your Hotwire trick you describe here, and it might start!

Edited November 4, 2019 by Steptoe

[Steptoe]

Three plug ecu. Check . Flapper AFM then?and vac can on your dizzy?

[Dbeluscak]

Found it. After removing the front seat and really getting under the dash found a blue plug with a blk/ylw and blk/wht! Found its counterpart and I've got 12v at the solenoid now. Just have to wait out a battery charge to continue testing

 

Thanks all for the help! 

[DaveT]

Yep, that is one of the connectors in the solenoid circuit. 

[Steptoe]

Anti theft at a basic level

 

[Dbeluscak]

On to the next issue, if I should make a separate post I can do that. Still electrical related..I think. 

Now it's cranking, I've got spark at the plugs. I'm guessing it's not getting fuel, it seems like it wanted to run on starting fluid. 

The fuel pump was shot so I replaced it with one I had from a parts loyale. The loyale was single port injection, from what I've read that fuel pump should be adequate. 

I've found a "spare" spade connector near the distributor. These turbo engines sure have a lot of extra wiring! I'll attach some pics of the wire in question. 

There is a large round plug that emerges from passenger fender wall, it's near the air filter box and pressure sensor unit(?) I think it's 8 or 9 pin. It crosses over the rear of the engine a ground breaks out to ground on the intake manifold and it makes its way over to the coil and distributor. 

The distributor is 4 wire and the coil seems like it has a lot of extras tied to it(2 negative - 3 or 4 positive). Two wires from the harness land on either side of the coil, another 4 to the distributor. I can't seem to locate anywhere for this extra spade to go. The wire in question is 16/18ga - black/yellow. I did try to ground it but with it grounded the starter wouldn't engage. One of the 4 wires going to the disty is blk/ylw, not sure if they're parallel.

Any thoughts or ideas would be helpful as I haven't really ruled out anything. 
- What I've done so far -

1. Cleaned all engine bay grounds
2. Verified spark at the plugs (didn't look like they've seen fuel yet) 
3. Cap and rotor turn with the engine, rotor is secured. 
4. Pulled fuel line off after the filter and verified fuel is getting through. (Hoping the pressure is enough) 
5. Read ECM codes, just code 12 is all that shows. No ESC light while cranking. 

- My thoughts -
1. Pull injectors and verify they're firing. 
2. I'm missing a component/sensor near the distributor for the blk/ylw spade to plug into. 
3. Timing is off, check timing

Sorry for the lengthy post but I'm just trying to be as detailed as possible. If I should make this a new post instead of adding to this one please let me know. 

Thanks for the help! Couldn't do it without everyone's knowledge. 

[DaveT]

If it tries to run on starting fluid or even carburetor cleaner, timing and spark is ok.  

Black wires with stripes are not grounds.

If it is getting fuel and not firing, the plugs should be wet.

If your used fuels pump was sitting for a while, it is probably stuck, and not running.  I had 2 or 3 spares, so I thought,  until the day I tried to use them.  Every one was stuck.  They were all working when I stored them.

[Dbeluscak]

I ordered a new pump from Amazon just in case. But my spare pump is flowing thru to past the filter. Whether it's enough pressure is another question. Should be, but the replacement should arrive tomorrow. 

The car tries harder to start with starting fluid. Never really runs, not a huge fan of starting fluid. When I pulled the plugs it was after cranking for about 10 seconds. They weren't fuel soaked. Any idea what the fuel pressure should be?

- I assumed it wasn't a ground, just an experiment really. I did learn it cuts the starter solenoid if grounded! 

[Steptoe]

Can you test the pressure? Mpfi need 36 psi and if I recall correctly spfi need about half that ?? It all depends on fuel pressure regulator too if both pumps push out more

[Steptoe]

That black/ yellow wire next to coil , has a single white female plastic housing?

No need to connect it until you are ready for some fun

it will have 5V with IGN ON while ENG Off. When you get engine running, that wire should then drop to 1.7V

it is for diagnostic purposes for knock control

[Steptoe]

My first turbo fuel pump gave 36 psi at idle, but as soon as I asked anything of it out the driveway I watched fuel pressure gauge T,d into after filter, taped to windscreen - dropped to 10 psi until I backed off, then at idle, sat at 36 again. Tricky blighter

[Steptoe]

1 hour ago, DaveT said:

If it tries to run on starting fluid or even carburetor cleaner, timing and spark is ok.  

Black wires with stripes are not grounds.

If it is getting fuel and not firing, the plugs should be wet.

If your used fuels pump was sitting for a while, it is probably stuck, and not running.  I had 2 or 3 spares, so I thought,  until the day I tried to use them.  Every one was stuck.  They were all working when I stored them.

I store my spares after a dose of crc556 sprayed through them. Still to test my ways though ....

[Dbeluscak]

Thanks Steptoe! Exactly what I was looking for, probably easier to get a pressure gauge hooked up than pulling injectors. 

There was a little difference in the size on the outlet end of the 2 pumps. Looks like a built in regulator on the outlet side. 

Will I need a regulator for the new pump if it's over 40psi?

[DaveT]

The dropping to 10psi is a problem.   A non turbo SPFI starts to get upset a few PSI below it's set point of 21PSI.  Forget running one at 10PSI.

[Dbeluscak]

Now that they're side by side, it looks like this might be the problem..

The pic makes it seem there's quite a difference in the pumps. It flows thru the filter but probably not enough oomph to get thru the injector. 

[el_freddo]

While the engine is cranking, or running poorly, gently tap each injector repeatedly. This can free up stuck injectors. 

You can also use a length of dowel, or a long screw driver to listen to the injector pulse. It’ll create a light chattering like sound. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[DaveT]

The knobby thing on the end is a pulsation damper.  The pump on the right would think can deliver more fuel at higher pressure than the SPFI pump on the left....