86 GL-10 Won't crank

[Dbeluscak]

- thanks freddo! I'll give both a try.

This was an auction vehicle and donated to boot. Seems like someone gave up this car. Who knows when it was running last. The state I got the car in tells me they were in over there head. Dash was apart, everything was unplugged. I basically needed to reassemble it to figure out what they were trying to fix. Not out of the woods yet but there's light at the end of the tunnel. 

@DaveT

I agree after really seeing them side by side there's probably an output difference. The replacement I ordered is an equivalent of the e2000 I've seen mentioned here. I believe it's in the 60-90psi range. 

[Steptoe]

Dave T is correct in naming that damper. When I used a Nissan 3.0 litre turbo variant pump it lacked the damper. I had no problems at all

[naru2]

14 hours ago, Dbeluscak said:

Thanks Steptoe! Exactly what I was looking for, probably easier to get a pressure gauge hooked up than pulling injectors. 

There was a little difference in the size on the outlet end of the 2 pumps. Looks like a built in regulator on the outlet side. 

Will I need a regulator for the new pump if it's over 40psi?

A wise man once told me "The first thing to check on a troubled fuel injected engine is fuel pressure." I found it to be sage advice.(especially on a non-runner)

You want 36psi engine off,26-29@idle,and 42psi w/7lbs boost on the regulator "vacuum line"

SPFI pumps can`t really cut it.

Your pump needs to be capable of at least 95 litres/hour @43 psi.

The regulator is on the fuel rail,not the pump.No worries.

The red plugs are "check connectors" for diagnostics.You can monitor all the sensors and more from these.Very handy.

[Dbeluscak]

Got the new fuel pump installed last night. It went pretty easily, I need to get a 90° fitting for the outlet. Runs into the frame when bolted up. So as soon as it pressured up I blew the rubber line where it enters the interior. Probably have to replace all the old rubber on the pressure side. 

Here's the new pump. As you can see the outlet is a bit long. 

After I replaced the blown line I tried firing the engine, no luck. I tapped on the injectors and tried again. I got a little burp and a glimpse of hope. Spayed a little starting fluid, ran for a second. So timing is good. Tried again without the fluid, no luck. 

I decided to give it a little fuel to see if it runs a little longer. Tapped on the injectors injectors again. Started it up and it ran! Kept it running between 1500-2000. Really made a cloud in the garage! Ran for about 2 minutes and shut it down to look for leaks. Found nothing, sounds good, no knocks. 

Not running well yet but at least it's running! I'm going to drain the gas tank and get some premium in it. Probably plugs and then start looking for vacuum leaks and continuing on. Then I can start reassembling. 

Thanks for everyone's help. I'll make sure to keep updating. 

 

[Steptoe]

WooHoo !

Did the new pump warranty card insist tank be cleaned prior to using new pump or no warranty if pump fails?

[DaveT]

given the situation, I'd run a filter before the pump, at least for a while until clean tank is verified.

 

[Dbeluscak]

I didn't find a warranty card for the pump, not surprising for 22 bucks.. 

I took the pump out last night and drained the tank. I poured in 2 gallons of fresh and pressurized the tank in an attempt to get out all I could. 

Putting in a pre filter is a must though, once I start driving it more sediment will mix up at the bottom.

Next step is 5 gallons of 91 with some injector cleaner, seafoam, and probably replace a bunch of vacuum lines. Then I've got the electronic ride height to deal with. 

[Dbeluscak]

Ok, the weather broke for the weekend here in Montana. I got the car running-ish. In park, it will hesitate and rev up. Albeit, not exactly "snappy". 

The real question lies when I took it on the street for the first time. It tries to stall unless in neutral and basically putted twice around the block. Does shift into second gear if given enough time. 

All my other subarus are manual this is my first automatic. My first thought was to get the tires off the ground and see if the limp goes away. Instead, I thought I'd ask the experts opinion. This car, bought at auction, presumably hasn't ran in a decade or so. Had the wiring behind the dash torn apart. And finally ran for the first time back in November. 

I have plenty of fuel pressure, I suppose the injectors are questionable. Plenty of air, the turbo itself gets hot and smoky after a few minutes. It could probably use a closer inspection..

Anyway, as always I appreciate any suggestions or other things to check off my list. Thanks! 

[Ionstorm66]

Hot and smoky turbo after a few minutes of not making power would make me think running lean.

[carfreak85]

OP, did you ever get this car running well?

[Dbeluscak]

It's been a while.. but this car "was" running at one point. Drug it out of the yard and into the garage. Last time I looked at it I tore out the old injectors. Replaced with new ones. Now the entire fuel system is new. 

The car just isn't responsive. It will idle and rev slowly. Put it in gear and there's no throttle response, it basically idles around the block. 

I have a 91 Loyale with SPFI and it's throttle response is what you would expect. At this point I'm at a loss, could it be electrical? I doubt it, because it does "run". I'm going to spray some starting fluid around while at idle and check for vacuum leaks. I think that is a reasonable place to start.

On a side note, there are 3 wires from the distributor; upon better inspection they are not from the distributor. It's the wiring harness that runs beside the distributor. It starts at a round plug near the air cleaner. 

1. Black/ white stripe (Neg coil) 

2. Yellow (Pos coil) 

3. Black / Yellow stripe (goes nowhere? Has a spade connector but I see nowhere to hook it up) 

The car is hard to start, takes 15-20 seconds of pumping the throttle. When it does finally start it'll idle occasionally. If i rev over 2000 rpm it just cuts out and dies. 

Any ideas?!

Edited January 5, 2021 by Dbeluscak

[Dbeluscak]

Well... I'm pulling the motor. Best way to diagnose is start from scratch. Ordered a gasket set, timing belts, cap, rotor, and wires. I plan to sell this car and I'm not one to give away a project. When it's done, it'll run properly and be ready for the next 100k miles. It'll be out tomorrow. I'll update with any findings. 

 

I'm curious how involved a trans swap would be. I have all the parts from a donor 5spd with Hi/Lo. Although at that point I'd probably want to keep it! 

[el_freddo]

Trans swap not too involved - just mechanicals, no real wiring to the auto box unless you have one of those crazy four speed autos that ended up in the legacy. 

Different prop shaft length forward of the centre bearing carrier. Different gearbox crossmember (I think they’re different, can’t remember), different centre piece for the console, clutch pedal assembly, flywheel and clutch swap, different starter motor. Would need to check spline count of the diff output stub axles to ensure you’ve got the matching units. Doable though. 

As for it not running right, start with the cam timing - when crank is lined up one can should be aligned too and the other 180 degrees opposite. If not, correct it by refitting the cam belts correctly. 

After this, look into spark timing, it should be at 20 deg BTDC. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Dbeluscak]

The timing seems spot on. The motor is out and currently being disassembled. When I removed the intake there was a pool of fuel in cylinders 1 and 2. When I pulled the valve covers the rockers had fallen off the intake valves on each side. How is that possible? Bad springs? 

At any rate, now that it's out I'm doing a complete teardown. Anything I should do while I'm in here? It's a relatively low mileage engine (124k). I've ordered timing belts, cap, rotor, plugs, wires, etc. And a complete gasket set. 

That would easily explain why it wouldn't run. Which I'm glad really. I didn't want to pull this out and find nothing wrong. At least there's a culprit. 

Want to thank everyone for there continued help and input. This forum has served invaluable to the success of my (and many other) old suubs.

Currently, I own 4. My daily driver (91 loyale) has given me over 20k miles! I paid $100 bucks for it nearly 3 years ago. These are cheaper to buy whole then buy parts for! 

Thanks again, I'll update with pics and progress. 

[DaveT]

When you replace the timing belts,  replace the idlers. 

[Dbeluscak]

Will do Dave, I should've specified, I ordered the timing belt kit. Which includes tensioners and the idler sprocket. 

I have some pics and an electrical question. What are these two vacuum devices? 

In the lower left with 3 ports, appears to be a "ported vacuum switch" I've found that one at Rockauto. 2/3 ports cracked off trying to remove the vacuum lines. What's the purpose of it? 

 

And just above that to the right is another vacuum operated switch. Which is connected to the main wiring harness. What is that? Can't seem to find one. 

Thanks for the help. For fun, I'll add some pics from the teardown. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Dbeluscak

[DaveT]

I don't know the turbo details well.  The black vacuum solenoid on the manifold could be part of the EGR, or the charcoal canister purge.

The one screwed into the lower runner is a thermally activated valve.

[el_freddo]

That second solenoid piece you ask about is to do with the purge control I thing. It vents to atmosphere - the little mesh “air cleaner” (for the want of a better name) is broken off. Very common with these but I don’t think it interferes with its operation. 

Cheers 

Bennie